Election stealing in Nevada and Oregon

[Gustaf]

Just a minor point...I fully agree that voting should be on a sunday or at least satuday, not on a week-day. IT'd be a lot better for turnout, etc and help people who have a lot of work to do.

[jimrtex]

Just a minor point...I fully agree that voting should be on a sunday or at least satuday, not on a week-day. IT'd be a lot better for turnout, etc and help people who have a lot of work to do.

Texas holds elections on Saturdays and it doesn't particularly help turnout.  Media works on a 5-day work week, so they would be less likely to remind people of elections.  People expect to have the weekend for their own use.  In effect, the government is telling them, "you aren't doing anything, so you'll have time to vote"

[J. J.]

OK rumor control,  Looks like there is video footage of the pollsters being told to destroy the democratic ballots and destroying the.  Edwards is going to make three stops through Oregon cumlinating in a big rally in downtown portland right before the debate.  This well be huge.  It will be if there is footage.  I hope it doesn't overshadow the debate.

"Pollster" destroying "ballots?"

Let's be clear here.  Nobody is destroying ballots.  These are not ballots (which would be illegal).  These are allegedly voter registration forms.  And these are not polsters, people who take polls.

[J. J.]

Ever heard of a long election line?
I once waited half an hour in a non Presidential election in a wealthy neighborhood in California. I imagine it can't be good in inner cities in Missouri during an election year.

Let's be very clear here, the voters were not in line; a Federal court at the time noted this and ordered the workers to stop this.  This was a case of people not intitled to vote, in heavily Democratic areas, because they were not there, being permitted to vote.  A Federal Court determined this, at the time and issued an order to stop the practice.

Here we have a situation where what appears to be a private organization refuses to help unregistered voters to register.  Those unregistered people are not being denied a right to be registered, as there are numerous locations where they can register.

Now, if this group were government employees, e.g. postal workers, clerks at the DMV, welfare caseworkers, and they were destroying forms, yes, I would agree that this would be improper.  That is not being claimed.

This is more in the nature of Democratic or Republican party workers refusing to register people who won't register people who don't want to register in their respective parties.

No, I would not call it "election stealing" if the Democratic Party refused to help Republicans register to vote.

[elcorazon]

Ever heard of a long election line?
I once waited half an hour in a non Presidential election in a wealthy neighborhood in California. I imagine it can't be good in inner cities in Missouri during an election year.

Let's be very clear here, the voters were not in line; a Federal court at the time noted this and ordered the workers to stop this.  This was a case of people not intitled to vote, in heavily Democratic areas, because they were not there, being permitted to vote.  A Federal Court determined this, at the time and issued an order to stop the practice.

Here we have a situation where what appears to be a private organization refuses to help unregistered voters to register.  Those unregistered people are not being denied a right to be registered, as there are numerous locations where they can register.

Now, if this group were government employees, e.g. postal workers, clerks at the DMV, welfare caseworkers, and they were destroying forms, yes, I would agree that this would be improper.  That is not being claimed.

This is more in the nature of Democratic or Republican party workers refusing to register people who won't register people who don't want to register in their respective parties.

No, I would not call it "election stealing" if the Democratic Party refused to help Republicans register to vote.

This is much more serious than not helping democrats register.  They SAY they're going to submit their registration.  The people now think they ARE registered and no longer think they have to go to those other places to register.  And now, when they show up at the polls and can't vote, they WILL be disenfranchised due to this action.

The Missouri issue is a red herring.  I'm really not up on the details of it, but whether or not the dems were dirty has no impact on whether this is an important issue to be discussed.

One more note:  even if the St. Louis issue was as jfern says, it was clearly an attempt to get REAL PEOPLE who actually WANTED TO VOTE and who were LEGALLY REGISTERED an opportunity to vote.  Maybe it was underhanded, but comparing it to an attempt to stop potential voters who should be legally registered from legally registering is MUCH WORSE, in my opinion.

[J-Mann]

This is why I only trust myself with such important matters.  I wouldn't register with some random person regardless of who they claimed to be working for.  When I registered, I went to my county clerk's office and did it myself.

No, it's not right that they're not turning in the registration forms of Democrats.  But, I'd hope that more people would take the time to register long before an election.  It should be one of the first things that one does if they move to a new city and/or state.

[MODU]

I'm not sure about other states, but in Virginia, you can register to vote when you do your state taxes.  That way, you know it gets into the system in a timely manner, and it's an easy reminder.

[elcorazon]

This is why I only trust myself with such important matters.  I wouldn't register with some random person regardless of who they claimed to be working for.  When I registered, I went to my county clerk's office and did it myself.

No, it's not right that they're not turning in the registration forms of Democrats.  But, I'd hope that more people would take the time to register long before an election.  It should be one of the first things that one does if they move to a new city and/or state.

I agree, but when someone actually offers to register you, it's quite unlikely you'd turn them down if it'll save you a trip to a government office.  Not everyone has easy access to transportation or knows what to do and having the opportunity to do it easier is quite tempting.  Once you've done it, you'd have no reason to think you weren't registered and you'd be disenfranchised at the polls.

Why don't you just admit that more people voting in general helps dems so making it more difficult to vote helps repubs and that's why this issue fails to resonate with you.  You'd like people not to have the opportunity to register at the grocery because doing so helps dems.  This type of chicanery makes it more likely that they won't have this type of registration in the future which is a good thing for repubs.

[shankbear]

In Texas you get a notice by mail where I live.   You can register at WalMart for crying out loud.  To blame it on somebody else is becoming the American way.  This applies to both sides.  I have been registered over 10 months ahead of this election.  Why would anybody wait so long?  Oh, didn't know there was an election this year?  This is a fear tactic used by all sides.

It is the vote that will matter in the end.  Millions of properly registered peolpe never vote.  Too lazy?  Too stupid?  Apathetic?  Probably a bit of all of these.

[ATFFL]

This is why I have always said you should only be able to register to vote by going to a government office and doing it your own damn self.  If you cannot be bothered to do that, you don't get to to vote.

[J. J.]

Here we have a situation where what appears to be a private organization refuses to help unregistered voters to register.  Those unregistered people are not being denied a right to be registered, as there are numerous locations where they can register.

Now, if this group were government employees, e.g. postal workers, clerks at the DMV, welfare caseworkers, and they were destroying forms, yes, I would agree that this would be improper.  That is not being claimed.

This is more in the nature of Democratic or Republican party workers refusing to register people who won't register people who don't want to register in their respective parties.

No, I would not call it "election stealing" if the Democratic Party refused to help Republicans register to vote.

This is much more serious than not helping democrats register.  They SAY they're going to submit their registration.  The people now think they ARE registered and no longer think they have to go to those other places to register.  And now, when they show up at the polls and can't vote, they WILL be disenfranchised due to this action.

The Missouri issue is a red herring.  I'm really not up on the details of it, but whether or not the dems were dirty has no impact on whether this is an important issue to be discussed.

One more note:  even if the St. Louis issue was as jfern says, it was clearly an attempt to get REAL PEOPLE who actually WANTED TO VOTE and who were LEGALLY REGISTERED an opportunity to vote.  Maybe it was underhanded, but comparing it to an attempt to stop potential voters who should be legally registered from legally registering is MUCH WORSE, in my opinion.

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So now, according to your logic, theDemocratic party should help Republicans register to vote!   I do not begrudge any party or group from legally helping supportors of that group or party register; on the contrary, I applaud it.  Only in the Bizarro World would an interest group try to help people opposed to their interest vote. 

In St. Louis, election official tried to, and partly suceeded in, getting voters to vote illegally.

It is, however, the height of hypocracy to accuse one group of "stealing" an election by only working to get their supporters registered and then to "overlook" real violations of the law that favor the other group.

BTW:  I will defend equally attempts by Democratic groups to register only Democrats, or for the NAACP to try to register voters in predominately Black neighborhoods, which I have done in this thread.