French Regionals 2010
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #500 on: March 15, 2010, 01:57:00 AM »

Oh, just saw the maps. Awesome. Cheesy
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MaxQue
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« Reply #501 on: March 15, 2010, 02:06:33 AM »
« Edited: March 15, 2010, 02:20:13 AM by Senator MaxQue »

Centre
UMP 29
PS 28.2
EE 11.7
FN 11.2
FG 7.5
Modem 5
PDF 3.6
NPA 2.6
LO 1.1

Champagne-Ardennes
UMP 31.8
PS 31
FN 15.9
EE 8.5
NPA 4.9
Modem 4.3
AEI 2
LO 1.7

Corse, Corsica (threshold at 7%)
UMP 21.3
Simeoni-Régionaliste 18.4
Giaccobi-PRG 15.5
FG 10
Talamoni-Régionaliste 9.4
Zuccarelli-PRG 8
Renucci-DVG 6.6
Modem 4.3
FN 4.2
AEI 1.9
DVD 0.5

Franche-Comté
UMP 32.1
PS 29.9
FN 13.1
EE 9.4
FG 4.1
Modem 3.5
NPA 3.3
PDF 2.5
Random ecologist 1.1
LO 1.1

Haute-Normandie
PS 34.9
UMP 25
FN 11.8
EE 9.1
FG 8.4
Modem 2.9
NPA 2.6
DLR (Dupont-Aigran's gang, "Gaullists") 1.8
PDF 1.5
AEI 1.1
LO 1

Île-de-France
UMP 27.8
PS 25.3
EE 16.6
FN 9.3
FG 6.6
DLR 4.2
Modem 4
NPA 3.1
AEI 1.4
Christians 0.9
LO 0.6
Émergence-DVG 0.4
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MaxQue
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« Reply #502 on: March 15, 2010, 02:28:59 AM »
« Edited: March 15, 2010, 02:40:02 AM by Senator MaxQue »

Languedoc-Roussillon-Raciststan
Frêche-Xenophobia-DVG 34.3
UMP 19.6
FN 12.7
EE 9.1
FG 8.6
PS 7.7
AEI 3.9
Union Républicaine Populaire-DVD 2
PDF 0.7
Ligue du Midi-Far Right 0.7
LO 0.6

Limousin
PS 38.1
UMP 24.2
FG 13.1
EE 9.7
FN 7.8
Modem 3.6
AEI 2
LO 1.6

Lorraine
PS 34.4
UMP 23.8
FN 14.9
EE 9.2
Modem 3.2
Non aux minarets en Lorraine 3
FG 3
AEI 2.5
DLR 2.3
NPA 2.2
LO 1.3
La Voix Lorraine 0.4
La Lorraine des générations solidaires (WTF?) 0.1

Midi-Pyrénées
PS 40.9
UMP 21.8
EE 13.5
FN 9.4
FG 6.9
Modem 3.8
NPA 2.9
LO 0.8

Nord-Pas-de-Calais
PS 29.2
UMP 19
FN 18.3
FG 10.8
EE 10.3 (there will be some merging here, 5 lists qualified)
Modem 3.9
Liste Ch'ti-DVD (lol) 3
NPA 3
LO 1.4
Mettez le Pas-de-Calais dans vos assiettes (LOL) 1

Pays (artificiel) de la Loire
PS 34.4
UMP 32.8
EE 13.6
FN 7.1
FG 5
Modem 4.6
LO 1.6
Nous te ferons Bretagne-DVG 1 (They got 11389 votes in Loire-Atlantique, 222 in Sarthe, 29 in Vendée, 17 in Mayenne and 12 in Maine-et-Loire.)
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MaxQue
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« Reply #503 on: March 15, 2010, 02:45:14 AM »
« Edited: March 15, 2010, 02:52:26 AM by Senator MaxQue »

Picardie
PS 26.6
UMP 25.9
FN 15.8
EE 9.98 (sad)
Gremetz (Stalinist) 6.2
FG 5.4
Modem 3.7
NPA 3
PDF 2
LO 1.3

Poitou-Charente
PS-Royal 39
UMP 30
EE 11.5
FN 7.7
FG 4.8
Modem 4
NPA 2
LO 1

Provence-Alpes-Côte-d'Azur (PACA)
UMP 26.6
PS 25.8
FN 20.3
EE 10.9
FG 6.1
Ligue du Sud-Far Right 2.7
Modem 2.5
AEI 2.3
NPA 2.1
LO 0.6

Rhône-Alpes
UMP 26.4
PS 25.4
EE 17.8
FN 14
FG 6.3
Modem 4.3
NPA 2.4
Spartacus-DVD (Huh) 1.9
LO 1.4

Réunion
PCR (Communists) 30.2
UMP 26.4
PS 13.1
Nout'Fierté-DVD (Virapoullé)  6.7
Avenir Meillleur (Ramassamy) 5.9
Divers Droite-DVD (Thien-Ah-Koon) 5.4
Le Changement-DVD (Magamootoo) 4.99
EE 4.9
Nasion Renione-Régionalistes (Boyer) 0.9
LO 0.8
Pour l'Égalité totale (Arnachellum) 0.5
Pouny 0.1
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SPQR
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« Reply #504 on: March 15, 2010, 03:40:26 AM »

What the hell is wrong with Languedoc-Roussillon?
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big bad fab
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« Reply #505 on: March 15, 2010, 04:35:26 AM »

That's fine, now: 2 and a half years without REAL reforms and the FN up and a PS reunited despite the "ouverture"....
What a defeat for Sarkozy, on all the fronts...

Well, I guess you feel like I do for Obama and the USA... Sarko also gave much hope to the french right (but admit that for the moment he has done more things than Obama Tongue).

Apart from local State offices (which are currently shuffled in a big way), everything has failed or is so light that it doesn't count:
- universities,
- lycées,
- spending cuts (LOL),
- health and hospitals,
- agriculture,
- constitutional reform,
- housing,
- local councils,...

The word of "reform" itself is now a negative one in France.
And we are addicted to public spending. Even the Swedish managed to put an end to the public spending growth.

I dream of a crisis government with Juppé, Woerth, Courson, Lambert, Arthuis, etc, doing the bad work for 3 years and being trounced in elections, but returning triumphantly 5 years later.
But, even if a responsible government acted well, French people wouldn't acknowledge the reality.
They want a 2nd Jospin-Aubry-DSK play, when money was wasted rather than putting an end to public debt and fiscal imbalances...

An ideologically leftist country with a deeply stupid right: France has been no more than this since 1945 and will be for the foreseeable future. De Gaulle was just an artificial distortion, an exception (but himself wasn't very able in his industrial, social, agricultural policies).
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Hashemite
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« Reply #506 on: March 15, 2010, 08:21:49 AM »

What is that strong UMP region in the lower center and why is it so ?

(Sry, just turned in)

Cantal. Apart from being Marleix's home turf, it's also, amusingly, the home turf to the PS incumbent. Marleix's from the Saint-Flour plateaus in the mountainous east of the department, it's historically a very, very clerical and Catholic area though some new roads and development have made the left stronger even there. The PS incumbent, whose name I can't remember on my life, comes from the west of the department, in the Aurillac basin (he was mayor of Aurillac). The Aurillac basin is an old industrial and anti-clerical Radical area (the Cantal has a PRG Senator since 2008).

I'm slightly surprised at how well Marleix managed to do there, but he still did worse than VGE did in 2004.

Also, a shout out to Carl Lang. Good job, this time you managed to break 1%.
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« Reply #507 on: March 15, 2010, 08:47:05 AM »

Also, Max beat me to the maps, but here's a second shot anyway, and as a bonus you get a Paris inset:



Giacobbi is red in Haute-Corse.

In Guadeloupe, Victorin Lurel (PS) is re-elected with 56,80%. Blaise Aldo (Majority) has 14,00% and Eric Jalton (DVG) has 12,00%.

Marc (GUSR-DVG) is at 2.8% (lol), and this guy called Cedric Cornet (apparently a video games fan) is at 6.96%.

Penchard has taken a major, major hit here. In Basse-Terre, LMC's turf, Lurel has 61.3% against 17.4% for the UMP candidate. In Penchard's hometown of Gourbeyre, Lurel has 51.6% against 21.3% for Aldo. It's a massive rejection of Penchard-Chevry Smiley, again, in Guadeloupe. If Sarkozy has any sense, he'd dump that stupid bitch for somebody who has a brain.

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Now, here, you get a strong result for the UMP, who had a popular left-leaning candidate. The runoff will be tighter, and a lot depends on how the DVD and other candidates act this week. Berthelot (DVG, ex-PSG) took 5.1%, Joëlle Prévôt-Madère (DVD autonomist) took 7.4% and the EE candidate got 5.3%. Roger Arel, Leon Bertrand's candidate, took 4.2%.

I really think the UMP can win here.

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Unsurprising, but the runoff will be interesting. Madeleine de Grandmaison, who got 6.9%, will be king-maker.

I thank Guadeloupe for rejecting Penchard so massively.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #508 on: March 15, 2010, 10:11:03 AM »

Isn't the reform already done now (which obviously is bad new for me) ?

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They have started to work on the "reform", and I'm glad my little brother will be just old enough to escape it. Tongue

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Indeed LOL. Basically, it's indeed a total failure, but you can't say he didn't try. The only problem is that while dogmatically applying the "one of to civil servants not replaced" inanity, they at the same time practiced a fiscally irresponsible policy that ruined the Stat even more.

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Isn't it done also ? If it's not, I'm glad to learn it.

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What was he exactly supposed to do ? The agricultural policy is mainly an european one.

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It passed few time ago, even though it's a quite light one.

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Don't remember anything particular, true.

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You mean the obnoxious reform of the voting system they are preparing for 2014 ?


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The problem is that Sarkozy used it as if it was a positive term in itself. Remorm just means "change" : change can be good or bad, depends how it was before. Obviously some things need to be changed, but not everything and not in the way the government is doing.


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The problem isn't public spending itself, but public deficit. Maybe the first step would be not to cut the recipes by fiscal exoneration, but... Roll Eyes


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Come on, you can disagree with Jospin's policies in many ways (and we already discussed this I think), but admit that this time was pretty good on several aspects, especially compared with the current situation. Maybe in two years we'll see what a new socialist government is able to achieve, but I doubt it would be as awful as the current one.


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Ideologically leftist, yes (and also with a pretty archaic and unrealistic left, that is the real problem). Maybe not that much as external observers believe, at least I fear that most people in France as elsewhere are more and more mistrusting the Welfare State. Sarkozy's win in 2007 (besides the problem of her opponent) proves that people have interiorized the ideas that "things should change" in terms of Welfare State and in general of the Stte's action. And even though now they seem reluctant, I fear they will eventually accept all the future neoliberal "reforms". Another thing that, reversely, makes me think to the USA.
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« Reply #509 on: March 15, 2010, 11:38:33 AM »

Deadline for new runoff lists in tomorrow, 18:00. The Greenies and PS are actively negotiating.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
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« Reply #510 on: March 15, 2010, 11:44:08 AM »

Deadline for new runoff lists in tomorrow, 18:00. The Greenies and PS are actively negotiating.

Well yeah, they have to hurry up now.

Damn, when I think that an united FG+PS+V list in Languedoc would have polled 25% I really feel bad... Sad
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« Reply #511 on: March 15, 2010, 11:55:11 AM »
« Edited: March 15, 2010, 12:04:46 PM by Breizh »

Damn, when I think that an united FG+PS+V list in Languedoc would have polled 25% I really feel bad... Sad

You can thank the PS for that. Furthermore, the PS will vote for the racist collabo in the runoff, indirectly. Thankfully the Greens have some integrity and they don't change their positions, they won't vote for the racist collabo.

Couderc is, amusingly, proposing spots to the Greenies and Socialists on his lists... A large anti-Freche"Republican Front" would be fun, but it won't happen. Thanks a lot, Martine!
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #512 on: March 15, 2010, 12:40:37 PM »

An ideologically leftist country with a deeply stupid right: France has been no more than this since 1945 and will be for the foreseeable future. De Gaulle was just an artificial distortion, an exception (but himself wasn't very able in his industrial, social, agricultural policies).

France is the most right-wing country in western Europe (apart from perhaps Ireland, but Ireland is so different that a comparison is impossible).
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
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« Reply #513 on: March 15, 2010, 12:41:14 PM »

Damn, when I think that an united FG+PS+V list in Languedoc would have polled 25% I really feel bad... Sad

You can thank the PS for that. Furthermore, the PS will vote for the racist collabo in the runoff, indirectly. Thankfully the Greens have some integrity and they don't change their positions, they won't vote for the racist collabo.

Couderc is, amusingly, proposing spots to the Greenies and Socialists on his lists... A large anti-Freche"Republican Front" would be fun, but it won't happen. Thanks a lot, Martine!

Oh, damn, it, damn it.
Either she didn't started the anti-Frêche campagne or she should have going until the and and done the things correctly. Yes, that means abandoning the list head to Roumégas. And so ? At least it would have been the symbol of the left's unity against a populist dumbass. At the second round, they would easily have fusione with FG and would have had a decent representation in the Assembly. Damn it.
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tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #514 on: March 15, 2010, 12:49:17 PM »

An ideologically leftist country with a deeply stupid right: France has been no more than this since 1945 and will be for the foreseeable future. De Gaulle was just an artificial distortion, an exception (but himself wasn't very able in his industrial, social, agricultural policies).

France is the most right-wing country in western Europe (apart from perhaps Ireland, but Ireland is so different that a comparison is impossible).

Haha, here you are again with that, I waited a development last time to answer on it. Well, iirc, you base it on the fact that its labor policies have been right-wing for a while now.

So, if you haven't any other justification, first yes, but you start with a very leftist country and you go on the right doesn't mean you pass right wing, policies went in the right direction but the country remains on the left part of the spectrum, and one of the most leftist in Europe. Second, it's wrong, regularly France produced new leftist labor policies in the last years, like retirement at 60 years in 1981, or 35h under Jospin, just for the big ones.

And, when, more of that, you compare to other countries in Europe, and, hmm, let's compare to Germany for example, of which the last left that led the country during a long while was Schroëder, and then switch to a coalition led by Merkel, and then switch to Merkel + FDP, and when you look at, for example, Spanish and British left, and when you look at Italy, not to speak about the fact that our far-right is until now amongst the softer of Europe, if you don't produce other arguments, this 'France is the most right wing country of Europe' is lol lol lol to me.
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big bad fab
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« Reply #515 on: March 15, 2010, 03:07:41 PM »

An ideologically leftist country with a deeply stupid right: France has been no more than this since 1945 and will be for the foreseeable future. De Gaulle was just an artificial distortion, an exception (but himself wasn't very able in his industrial, social, agricultural policies).

France is the most right-wing country in western Europe (apart from perhaps Ireland, but Ireland is so different that a comparison is impossible).
Cheesy
Don't just look at weak unions and at people who hold the presidency or the prime-ministership.
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Math
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« Reply #516 on: March 15, 2010, 04:09:11 PM »

At least Greens are saving their honour in Brittany where there will be a 3-way runoff...

http://www.lemonde.fr/elections-regionales/article/2010/03/15/bretagne-europe-ecologie-et-le-ps-annoncent-une-triangulaire_1319787_1293905.html
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« Reply #517 on: March 15, 2010, 04:14:59 PM »


Yup, Le Drian has seen that he can do without the Greenies and he's been acting quite arrogantly (surprising coming from him). Should be fun.

I suppose Troadec's voters will vote Green.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #518 on: March 15, 2010, 04:54:29 PM »


Yup, Le Drian has seen that he can do without the Greenies and he's been acting quite arrogantly (surprising coming from him). Should be fun.

I suppose Troadec's voters will vote Green.

Well, Le Drian will win anyways. I don't see Malgorn winning, she has not enough reserves.
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« Reply #519 on: March 15, 2010, 05:09:48 PM »


Yup, Le Drian has seen that he can do without the Greenies and he's been acting quite arrogantly (surprising coming from him). Should be fun.

I suppose Troadec's voters will vote Green.

Well, Le Drian will win anyways. I don't see Malgorn winning, she has not enough reserves.

Oh, no, Le Drian can't lose, that's for certain. I never thought that.

No UMP candidate, especially not Malgorn, has enough reserves!
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« Reply #520 on: March 15, 2010, 07:06:41 PM »

Apparently talks between Greenies and PS haven't been perfect, though they have a deal in PACA, Poitou, Alsace, Midi-Pyrenees (lol Onesta) and Champage-Ardenne; nothing Bretagne, unknown in IdF... Yet knowing how the Greenies are nothing more than the PS' little sidekick, they'll get together.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #521 on: March 15, 2010, 09:43:27 PM »

The language of French politics is very left-wing, yes. Post-Revolution it always has been. But we have to remember that language isn't reality, or rather, that it isn't the only reality. If we judged left-and-right by language alone, we have no choice but to consider SFIO to have been one of the most left-wing political organisations ever to actually win seats in a national legislature - an idea that is more than slightly absurd.

If we look at policy and the parties themselves, then the picture is much more mixed and depends (as is almost always the case) on individual conceptions of left and right. A Marxist (well, a real Marxist, anyway) would have no choice but to consider French politics to be remarkably right-wing for a country in the western half of Europe, while someone from the 'libertarian' Right would have equally little choice in branding it as remarkably left-wing. Someone interested in patterns of state intervention and welfare policies would mostly note paternalism above all else (at least since 1945), someone interested in elections and power structures would note entrenched conservatism with quixotic anti-establishment tendencies. And, I suppose, someone from a minority group would, presumably, be quite likely to take one look at 'racial' discourses in French society and politics and agree with the Marxist, though for totally different reasons.

But this feeds back into the issue of language, I think; though obviously not in the same way. My understanding of what it is to be on the Left is probably different to yours (whoever you happen to be), and yours will not be the same as the first person to read this post after you.

It is a quarter to three in the morning.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #522 on: March 16, 2010, 01:27:41 AM »

Also, Max beat me to the maps, but here's a second shot anyway, and as a bonus you get a Paris inset:



This is going to pretty red after the run-off ... Smiley
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #523 on: March 16, 2010, 01:38:53 AM »

Question:

How is it determined in each region which candidate can advance to the run-off in 1 week ?
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #524 on: March 16, 2010, 02:18:35 AM »

Question:

How is it determined in each region which candidate can advance to the run-off in 1 week ?

Well, the PS has been ahed of EE in every region, so they will keep the head of lists in everyone. As for the lists, it should be proportional to the number of votes got.


Apparently talks between Greenies and PS haven't been perfect, though they have a deal in PACA, Poitou, Alsace, Midi-Pyrenees (lol Onesta) and Champage-Ardenne; nothing Bretagne, unknown in IdF... Yet knowing how the Greenies are nothing more than the PS' little sidekick, they'll get together.

According to what I heard, it's going quite bad. But they can't be stupid enough not to ally in strategical regions.
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