is all of this pointless?

[WalterMitty]

i know im jaded, cynical and bitter.

but this is pointless.    nothing ever gets accomplished because of politics.

democrats YAY.   republicans BOO

my candidate is better than yours.

i know most of you are still young enough to have hope and idealism.   mine has long since run out....

[Хahar 🤔]

Does anything have a point?

[k-onmmunist]

We live in an absurd and meaningless world.

That's why I'm an existential nihilist.

[WalterMitty]

i blame obama for making me lose all hope.

all of his supporters said he was the greatest thing to come along.   so much hope.  change, even.

turns out he is just a spineless weasel.  not unlike most politicians.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Yes, this thread is pointless.

[Meeker]

That's the spirit Walter!

[Hash]

I don't go much into debate, since that's what pointless.

It basically consists of 'I disagree with you' and 'so do I'. And you argue, your opponent is never convinced, you don't change positions, and in the end it's entirely pointless and most of it turns into some writing exercise of how well you can lay down your arguments. Take some English class if you want to do that.

[A18]

nothing ever gets accomplished because of politics.

I assume you mean that a large-scale change in government policy "[n]ever gets accomplished because of politics." But of course, that "politics" reflects very real differences of opinion among the electorate.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

i blame obama for making me lose all hope.

all of his supporters said he was the greatest thing to come along.   so much hope.  change, even.

turns out he is just a spineless weasel.  not unlike most politicians.

So you'd rather have McCain?

[Associate Justice PiT]

I don't go much into debate, since that's what pointless.

It basically consists of 'I disagree with you' and 'so do I'. And you argue, your opponent is never convinced, you don't change positions, and in the end it's entirely pointless and most of it turns into some writing exercise of how well you can lay down your arguments. Take some English class if you want to do that.

     I feel the same way. Those sorts of political debates are exercises in futility. Now when a candidate actually manages to change the other candidate's mind rather than them just spouting talking points at each other, let me know.

[Holmes]

This thread has inspired me.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

This thread has inspired me.

This guy is equally inspired:

[John Dibble]

I believe that our politicians are helping me by inching us closer and closer to my goal of total annihilation of the human race. I hope that helps.

[Hash]

I don't go much into debate, since that's what pointless.

It basically consists of 'I disagree with you' and 'so do I'. And you argue, your opponent is never convinced, you don't change positions, and in the end it's entirely pointless and most of it turns into some writing exercise of how well you can lay down your arguments. Take some English class if you want to do that.

     I feel the same way. Those sorts of political debates are exercises in futility. Now when a candidate actually manages to change the other candidate's mind rather than them just spouting talking points at each other, let me know.

Electoral debates tend to be more useful since some voters can get to know them better. But they could do so by following their campaigns too...

And what I said doesn't apply to France. Debates aren't about issues in France, they're personality contests, beauty pageants, and talk shows.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I don't go much into debate, since that's what pointless.

It basically consists of 'I disagree with you' and 'so do I'. And you argue, your opponent is never convinced, you don't change positions, and in the end it's entirely pointless and most of it turns into some writing exercise of how well you can lay down your arguments. Take some English class if you want to do that.

Personally debate is the only reason why I still come to forums like this one. Well that and habit and a long summer. (Oh, if you mean debate between politicians and standard carboard political positions... then yeah, I concur)

The answer to walter is: yes. In general even the POTUS has far less power than many imagine.

[Eraserhead]

i blame obama for making me lose all hope.

all of his supporters said he was the greatest thing to come along.   so much hope.  change, even.

turns out he is just a spineless weasel.  not unlike most politicians.

Go cut yourself, emo.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I don't go much into debate, since that's what pointless.

It basically consists of 'I disagree with you' and 'so do I'. And you argue, your opponent is never convinced, you don't change positions, and in the end it's entirely pointless and most of it turns into some writing exercise of how well you can lay down your arguments. Take some English class if you want to do that.

     I feel the same way. Those sorts of political debates are exercises in futility. Now when a candidate actually manages to change the other candidate's mind rather than them just spouting talking points at each other, let me know.

Electoral debates tend to be more useful since some voters can get to know them better. But they could do so by following their campaigns too...

And what I said doesn't apply to France. Debates aren't about issues in France, they're personality contests, beauty pageants, and talk shows.

     Well in the U.S. debates are basically exercises in oneupmanship with issues sprinkled in for an appearance of respectability. American audiences just go for the sensational stuff & don't care about much else.

[WalterMitty]

i blame obama for making me lose all hope.

all of his supporters said he was the greatest thing to come along.   so much hope.  change, even.

turns out he is just a spineless weasel.  not unlike most politicians.

So you'd rather have McCain?

what difference would it make?

mccain and his ilk are going to get their way on health care.  obama will never stand up to them.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

i blame obama for making me lose all hope.

all of his supporters said he was the greatest thing to come along.   so much hope.  change, even.

turns out he is just a spineless weasel.  not unlike most politicians.

So you'd rather have McCain?

what difference would it make?

mccain and his ilk are going to get their way on health care.  obama will never stand up to them.

You must have been beside yourself then when the Dems wouldn't stand up to President 29% and he had his way with them.

[Hatman 🍁]

I don't go much into debate, since that's what pointless.

It basically consists of 'I disagree with you' and 'so do I'. And you argue, your opponent is never convinced, you don't change positions, and in the end it's entirely pointless and most of it turns into some writing exercise of how well you can lay down your arguments. Take some English class if you want to do that.

this.

[Citizen James]

I used to be a nihilist, but I don't believe in that anymore.

Cynicism isn't realistic, it's cowardly.  A healthy skepticism questions negative assumptions just as much as positive ones.

Let's see...

nothing ever gets accomplished because of politics.

That's why we still have slavery, and Jim Crow laws are still on the books.   That's why children still work in sweatshops - even in industrialized nations.   Taxes are still at the same rate they were in the 1950's.  Yup - nothing ever changes due to politics.  Nothing at all.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

That comes across as a combination of black and white thinking along with a bit of stereotyping.  Sometimes an election gives us choices which seem clear as one we approve of vs one we don't (for me, Bush vs Gore fit that category), sometimes it's a decision between two good choices (Bush Sr. v Clinton) sometimes the lesser of two evils (have I covered all the Booleans yet?) When we get past the bandwagons, both life and governance are far more complex things.

i blame obama for making me lose all hope.

all of his supporters said he was the greatest thing to come along.   so much hope.  change, even.

turns out he is just a spineless weasel.  not unlike most politicians.

Consider the concept of [ur=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_biasl]impact bias[/url], and again the concept of stereotype.  First up, change is often slow.  It is the nature of democratic government to be bureaucratic and slow moving.   However, it makes up for this by having safeguards in place against abuse of power.  We recall history with the presence of hindsight, so we don't have the uncertainty which existed at the time.   WWII was not a given when we were fighting it.  And it lasted for six long years (four with the US involved).

Also, politicians are people too.  As George Carlin points out - they are a sample of the people who elect them.  I take a somewhat less cynical view of the nature of humanity than Carlin does, but politicians aren't really an anomaly of human behavior.  That includes the good, the bad, the bat guano insane, and points in-between as well as without.

As for what meaning there is in life in general, I could glibly tell you 42 - but to be honest I think it is up to each one of us to find (and if necessary make) our own meaning out of life.

[Vepres]

Debate is very important. It's not about changing the other candidate's mind, but changing the minds of the voters.

For all its faults (many, many faults), our government doesn't get enough credit sometimes.

[Sam Spade]

You obviously have a lot to learn about politics and the nature of human relations, walter.

But don't feel alone - that's a trait you share in common with many at this forum

[muon2]

I don't go much into debate, since that's what pointless.

It basically consists of 'I disagree with you' and 'so do I'. And you argue, your opponent is never convinced, you don't change positions, and in the end it's entirely pointless and most of it turns into some writing exercise of how well you can lay down your arguments. Take some English class if you want to do that.

     I feel the same way. Those sorts of political debates are exercises in futility. Now when a candidate actually manages to change the other candidate's mind rather than them just spouting talking points at each other, let me know.

Actually I've personally seen one party in a political debate change another's mind. At the national level it gets lost more than at the state and local level, primarily because such a big deal is made over any politician flip-flopping. Even at that level it happens at the level of details within legislation if not on the overarching big issues.

[CARLHAYDEN]

I don't go much into debate, since that's what pointless.

It basically consists of 'I disagree with you' and 'so do I'. And you argue, your opponent is never convinced, you don't change positions, and in the end it's entirely pointless and most of it turns into some writing exercise of how well you can lay down your arguments. Take some English class if you want to do that.

     I feel the same way. Those sorts of political debates are exercises in futility. Now when a candidate actually manages to change the other candidate's mind rather than them just spouting talking points at each other, let me know.

Actually I've personally seen one party in a political debate change another's mind. At the national level it gets lost more than at the state and local level, primarily because such a big deal is made over any politician flip-flopping. Even at that level it happens at the level of details within legislation if not on the overarching big issues.

Actually, I have seen changes occur on the national level.

Example one: a little over twenty years ago the lefties tried the nuclear freeze/unilateral disarmamement option and got crushed in debate.

Example two:  the hoplaphobes have been trying for half a century to ban private possession of firearms, and as the public has become more educated (via debate) the loonies are becoming increasingly powerless.

Example three: the advocates of quotas (they now hide behind the term 'affirmative action').have lost the debate, and their policies are currently being rolled back.

I could provide other examples, but, the point is that patience is a virtue, and expecting instanteous conversions is unrealistic.