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Author Topic: Massive fraud in Afghanistan election  (Read 2432 times)
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jfern
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« on: September 05, 2009, 05:12:54 pm »
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6823431.ece
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danny
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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2009, 07:11:29 pm »
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This "election" should be treated as seriously as those in Syria or Cuba.
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2009, 07:43:08 pm »
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Christmas Is Going To Be December 25th This Year, I Heard.
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ag
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« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2009, 11:24:15 pm »
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This "election" should be treated as seriously as those in Syria or Cuba.

when you next show me an election in Cuba where opposition to Castro gets... I won't say nearly 50%, I'd say 5% of the vote, I will agree Smiley

It's not a fair election, but it's not Cuba either.
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Хahar
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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2009, 01:47:31 am »
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Afghanistan is a fully normal South Asian state now. I say we pull out.
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2009, 02:34:48 am »
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This was local fraud. Committed by both sides, I should add (not saying anything about extent), and helped by a dirt poor turnout. More on the model of an instable dirt poor country with western-imposed democracy as frequently seen in Africa, then; not the model of a strongman's dictatorship with window dressing elections as in Suharto's Indonesia or in Morocco.

I agree pulling out - or rather, ending OEF - would make sense. It took me time to understand that the flaw to Afghanistan plans was really as gamelosing disastrous as it looks on paper. The "country building" mission was doomed to certain failure if it could get identified with the non-defensive warfare on civilians/insurgents committed by the Americans and British from the first. It should never have gone ahead.
Meh. I was hopeful in 2001 and ready to ignore what I always knew was a flaw. Of course, OEF was initially marketed as "we'll just hunt out Osama bin Laden and the handful of people still with him, be gone by the end of the year". Yeah, well, lmao.
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« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2009, 09:54:05 am »
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Ballots are being thrown out in some pro-Karzai areas

So the election commission is taking action. Very good.
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2009, 10:09:39 am »
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If these "quarantined" ballots (all from stuffed 100% turnout, 100% Karzai booths, presumably) are not yet included in the partial but (according to my understanding) near-complete totals that have Karzai at 54%, then Karzai does not need them to avoid a runoff.
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"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
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« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2009, 10:24:10 am »
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Do you think Karzai genuinely has won this election removing fraud cases?
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2009, 10:53:45 am »
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Do you think Karzai genuinely has won this election removing fraud cases?
No. I think Karzai has won this election removing those too-obvious fraud cases the commission will throw out.
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"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
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« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2009, 08:16:08 am »
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Karzai's agreed to a run-off after the Electoral Commission invalidated his first-round victory and bumped him down to 48%.
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2009, 09:11:17 am »
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He seems to have stolen my coat.
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2009, 09:58:04 am »
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There are two commissions. One owned by Karzai, one by the US of A. Karzai's people theoretically have the final say, but they - or rather, Karzai - have given in what the other commission - or rather, the US Government - wants.

Any Afghan left with any faith in western-style democracy or the west or Karzai or Abdullah after this unseemly, monthlong and semiopen wrangling process is clearly stark barking insane.
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"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
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« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2009, 06:24:44 pm »
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Any Afghan left with any faith in western-style democracy or the west or Karzai or Abdullah after this unseemly, monthlong and semiopen wrangling process is clearly stark barking insane.

I would say the same of any who had it beforehand.
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« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2009, 07:51:40 am »
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He seems to have stolen my coat.

He seems to have stolen my hat.

Just kidding.

Unfortunately.
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« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2009, 05:13:46 pm »
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Yeah, it's obviously not a "Western-style" democracy. How could it be given the history and the overall situation of the country.

All sides are probably cheating and all sides accuse each other of cheating, no matter whether that other side actually cheated or not (it probably cheated, just not to the extent the first cheating side claims).

Under "fair" conditions, Karzai would probably win anyhow... we just don't know how big. And he's probably going to win the run-off. But not before this whole process was turned into a farce.
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2009, 02:29:41 pm »
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Surprised it hasn't been noted here yet. The guy in western dress has pulled out.
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"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
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