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Author Topic: India elections  (Read 49059 times)
WMS
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,557


Political Matrix
E: -3.48, S: -1.22

« on: May 13, 2004, 11:37:48 PM »

I wonder what impact this will have on U.S.-Indian cooperation on the war on Islamism? The BJP strongly stood with the U.S. (well, for Indian politics), whereas Congress is historically anti-U.S. and the Left Front-Communists...well, they're the Left Front-Communists. What more need you say? Smiley

I suspect relations will become chillier like with Spain...
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WMS
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,557


Political Matrix
E: -3.48, S: -1.22

« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2004, 11:36:34 PM »

I wonder what impact this will have on U.S.-Indian cooperation on the war on Islamism? The BJP strongly stood with the U.S. (well, for Indian politics), whereas Congress is historically anti-U.S. and the Left Front-Communists...well, they're the Left Front-Communists. What more need you say? Smiley

I suspect relations will become chillier like with Spain...
Possibly...but expect the changes to be much slighter. India isn't in Iraq now, after all. And the faultlines on the attitude towards the US run through the Congress and the NDA rather then between them (the Communists are another matter, though they too have become much better at attracting American investors).

We can hope - if what Storebought quoted was true, then we're in for another episode of cold peace. What? There are Congress members who aren't pining for the good old days of the Soviet Union? Amazing... Shocked And as for the NDA...well, that's why I made my aside above...supporting 'Christian' America while burning Christians in India is quite an interesting position to maintain for the BJP. But as Opebo said, some BJP members probably saw it as a common front against Islam (their POV: I specify Islamism in my posts to clarify my position).
I wonder how the Communists pulled that off? "We promise not to nationalize everything without compensation and hang you from a tree this time!" Grin
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WMS
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,557


Political Matrix
E: -3.48, S: -1.22

« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2004, 12:31:40 AM »

That part of the BJP you refer to were just hoping for the US to drop support of Pakistan.

India is no ally of the US, never has been. It's never been an ally of the Soviets either. (Funnily, I've encountered that opinions quite a few times coming from the US, though never from anywhere else.)
I remember reading a text by -was it Nehru?- from about 1947 on the question of Socialism and Capitalism, as economic concepts rather than as power blocs, and he basically said India needed every rope and would try both at the same time. Which is pretty much what they did.

Well, America tried to be nice to both sides after their independence, but India had a snit and so Pakistan reaped the benefits for decades...but given recent years I can see why the BJP thought they had a shot (and a good one at that after 9/11!).

First part, true enough - we almost made up enough in the past few years, but not quite. As for the U.S. viewpoint: even a highly pro-India source like P.M. Rosenthal (who, several years back, wrote a column for the New York Times) said that Nehru's first Foreign Minister (or the appropriate position) was highly anti-U.S., which influenced India's policies. Remember, the Congress Party opposed helping the Allies in WWII (something they should bear as a mark of shame, but don't), and I doubt that was forgotten on either side. Nehru's "nonalignment" movement was really the "anti-Western" movement...I mean, Communist China and Communist Cuba as members? Get real! And borderline-Communist and pro-Soviet Indonesia (under Sukarno, not Suharto) was also a member.

In any event, the "nonaligned" movement was rather anti-U.S. and anti-Western, even after China stabbed Nehru in the back in 1959. This lasted until Indira arrived, and things got more hostile after the 1967 India-Pakistani War, when India decided to sign a de facto alliance with the Soviet Union (to counterbalance China's support of Pakistan, in part, but also due to ideological affinity) and became even more hostile toward the U.S. Then after the bloodbath of the 1971 Civil War-War of Independence-3rd India-Pakistan War, things remained very cool well into the 1990's. Now, although Nixon did some dumb things in 1971 (yeah, that aircraft carrier he sent into the Bay of Bengal really impressed the Indians Roll Eyes ), the viewpoint goes beyond that. How often, Lewis, has India ever backed the U.S., especially during the Cold War? Who did they side with in their voting patterns? Somehow I doubt it was with the U.S.

And while Nehru didn't go communist (I think you need capital to nationalize to do that) he certainly created the huge, sprawling, parasitic bureaucracy that is such a drain on India - and this is coming from someone who is not a laissez-faire capitalist! He didn't do much to encourage capitalism...no one did, until the 1990's, but you covered that in other posts. Wink
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WMS
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,557


Political Matrix
E: -3.48, S: -1.22

« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2004, 10:56:40 PM »

[chop]

Let's just say events in the late 40's just played out that way - I don't think anybody planned it. Still, it means the US has been propping up a military dictatorship against the "world's largest dictatorship" for most of the last 55 years...and one that's also been taking help - at the same time - from Communist China. Nothing is as simple as it seems...

Pakistan varied between somewhat-democratic parliamentary governments and military regimes its entire existence...so it was only a dictatorship some of the time... Smiley And I believe you meant "the world's largest democracy", right? Wink In any event South Asia has always floated in a world of its own...

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Thus, it probably happened...the ardent pro-India sympathies of Rosenthal lead me to favor it as happening.

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I quite agree...sad, really, that India considers fighting on the side of Imperial Japan and against the Allies to be a good thing... Sad

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Actually, it really wasn't a democracy - as soon as he could Sukarno turned it into a "Presidential Regime" where he ran everything. I took a class on the region in graduate school, so I do know what I'm talking about here. Wink And Sukarno's forces were ALSO pro-Japanese during WWII, so we weren't very inclined to support them. And the nonaligned movement was anti-Western specifically, as they went out of their way NOT to oppose the Communist bloc...hardly 'nonaligned'! Knee-jerk anti-Americanism and anti-Westernism, pretty much what I've come to expect out of the Third World Left...

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There wouldn't be any Indian peasants left if he'd done that...

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Like congealed syrup...one layer atop another, endlessly adding to itself...
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