This is the kind of school indoctrination that Republicans support

[dead0man]

Yeah, I'd move (or not move into that district in the first place) if I had kids.

[Alcon]

While private schools aren't much better, at least they provide a better education and pay attention to the concerns of parents and students. I am done with the public school system.

I'm not saying that there aren't some very valid reasons to avoid public schools, but how do you square the idea of avoiding "indoctrination" with education?

[Alexander Hamilton]

While private schools aren't much better, at least they provide a better education and pay attention to the concerns of parents and students. I am done with the public school system.

I'm not saying that there aren't some very valid reasons to avoid public schools, but how do you square the idea of avoiding "indoctrination" with education?

Well it depends on what specific types of indoctrination we are referring to. Public schools I have attended have done things such as pressure kids into "talking to their parents about voting to give the schools more funding" and have been quite anti-religious (despite the school board wasting millions on "In God We Trust" plaques).

[Mechaman]

While private schools aren't much better, at least they provide a better education and pay attention to the concerns of parents and students. I am done with the public school system.

I'm not saying that there aren't some very valid reasons to avoid public schools, but how do you square the idea of avoiding "indoctrination" with education?

Well it depends on what specific types of indoctrination we are referring to. Public schools I have attended have done things such as pressure kids into "talking to their parents about voting to give the schools more funding" and have been quite anti-religious (despite the school board wasting millions on "In God We Trust" plaques).

Not sure about the anti-religious part, but definitely agree with the whole "vote for school money" part.

[Alexander Hamilton]

While private schools aren't much better, at least they provide a better education and pay attention to the concerns of parents and students. I am done with the public school system.

I'm not saying that there aren't some very valid reasons to avoid public schools, but how do you square the idea of avoiding "indoctrination" with education?

Well it depends on what specific types of indoctrination we are referring to. Public schools I have attended have done things such as pressure kids into "talking to their parents about voting to give the schools more funding" and have been quite anti-religious (despite the school board wasting millions on "In God We Trust" plaques).

Not sure about the anti-religious part, but definitely agree with the whole "vote for school money" part.

The teachers here tell kids (as young as 9) that God is as real as Santa Claus (I've had at least 7 instances of this occur). While I agree, it is wrong for the school system to allow this in a public system.

[dead0man]

Wow...that's as wrong as telling them that god is as real as me or you.  god shouldn't be brought up outside of a class on religion, history or culture and even then there shouldn't be any pro or anti god opinion coming from the teacher or the text books.

It's too bad we don't live in a perfect world....probably be boring though.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Wow...that's as wrong as telling them that god is as real as me or you.  god shouldn't be brought up outside of a class on religion, history or culture and even then there shouldn't be any pro or anti god opinion coming from the teacher or the text books.

It's too bad we don't live in a perfect world....probably be boring though.

For the record, I attended Bakersfield, CA public schools- I believe it has the most churches per capita in the entire world, and consistently elects religious nut jobs to the school board. I can only imagine how bad it is in more "liberal" areas.

[Alcon]

I've never had any teacher tell me that God doesn't exist and I'm going to wager.  That's a bummer but it seems like an atypical bummer.

I've had them give political/opinionated rants but schoolchildren above the Age of Reason shouldn't be sheltered from that.  (Separate discussion, though, and I'm low on time)

But my point is:  You're not going to instill any value in your kids?  How do you determine that instilling a value/opinion is OK and that it isn't?  My view of this is a little clouded, admittedly, because a lot of people who claim that public schools are forces for indoctrination are OK with indoctrination, just want it to be theirs.  I doubt that's you, but that's the inference I tend to make when hearing that claim.

But I'm trying to get at a solid definition here, since such a behavior seems unlike you.  Is it not indoctrination if agreement is pretty universal?  Within your community, culture, religious group, all of the world, what?  Hope that makes sense.

[Alexander Hamilton]

I try to be as unbiased and fair to everyone as possible, whether it be politics, religion, etc.
I disapprove of most forms of indoctrination, of course, that is only possible to an extent. Some organizations have no place exploiting biases to use as indoctrination, however. The public school system is one, law enforcement is another.

[Хahar 🤔]

Wow...that's as wrong as telling them that god is as real as me or you.  god shouldn't be brought up outside of a class on religion, history or culture and even then there shouldn't be any pro or anti god opinion coming from the teacher or the text books.

It's too bad we don't live in a perfect world....probably be boring though.

For the record, I attended Bakersfield, CA public schools- I believe it has the most churches per capita in the entire world, and consistently elects religious nut jobs to the school board. I can only imagine how bad it is in more "liberal" areas.

I'll help you out here.

It isn't a problem.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Wow...that's as wrong as telling them that god is as real as me or you.  god shouldn't be brought up outside of a class on religion, history or culture and even then there shouldn't be any pro or anti god opinion coming from the teacher or the text books.

It's too bad we don't live in a perfect world....probably be boring though.

For the record, I attended Bakersfield, CA public schools- I believe it has the most churches per capita in the entire world, and consistently elects religious nut jobs to the school board. I can only imagine how bad it is in more "liberal" areas.

I'll help you out here.

It isn't a problem.

I know the same problems exist in San Diego, CA and New Jersey, so, way to be an idiot again. No surprise, of course.

[Psychic Octopus]

In the mock school presidential election, three of my teachers said we should all vote for Barack Obama, because McCain is going to start WWIII. I am sure that there are conservative teachers who indoctrinate, but less. 'Nuff said.

[Alcon]

I try to be as unbiased and fair to everyone as possible, whether it be politics, religion, etc.
I disapprove of most forms of indoctrination, of course, that is only possible to an extent. Some organizations have no place exploiting biases to use as indoctrination, however. The public school system is one, law enforcement is another.

But that's not the question I'm asking -- how do you determine what's opinion, what's values and what's indoctrination?

You're eventually going to have to teach your children that.  Yeah telling a 9-year-old that there is, definitively, "no God" is overboard.  But the solution to this problem is not sequestering children away from opinions or subjective interpretations of fact.  Too many confuse this with limiting their kid's exposure to information to info that's universally accepted in their culture, or that they personally accept, or whatever.  That's still a type of indoctrination.

For the record, I went to public school.  I had outspoken Democrats and Republicans for teachers, obviously more of the latter.  They sometimes went over the line, but there was no brainwashing.  I never had any teachers definitively speak against God and I'm from urban WA; I think your experience was almost certainly an anomaly.

[Torie]

I try to be as unbiased and fair to everyone as possible, whether it be politics, religion, etc.
I disapprove of most forms of indoctrination, of course, that is only possible to an extent. Some organizations have no place exploiting biases to use as indoctrination, however. The public school system is one, law enforcement is another.

But that's not the question I'm asking -- how do you determine what's opinion, what's values and what's indoctrination?

You're eventually going to have to teach your children that.  Yeah telling a 9-year-old that there is, definitively, "no God" is overboard.  But the solution to this problem is not sequestering children away from opinions or subjective interpretations of fact.  Too many confuse this with limiting their kid's exposure to information to info that's universally accepted in their culture, or that they personally accept, or whatever.  That's still a type of indoctrination.

For the record, I went to public school.  I had outspoken Democrats and Republicans for teachers, obviously more of the latter.  They sometimes went over the line, but there was no brainwashing.  I never had any teachers definitively speak against God and I'm from urban WA; I think your experience was almost certainly an anomaly.

I assume the below is an appropriate correction of what I presume was an erratum.  Somehow, I just don't think Tacoma is crawling with Pubbie teachers in public schools. 

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[Хahar 🤔]

Wow...that's as wrong as telling them that god is as real as me or you.  god shouldn't be brought up outside of a class on religion, history or culture and even then there shouldn't be any pro or anti god opinion coming from the teacher or the text books.

It's too bad we don't live in a perfect world....probably be boring though.

For the record, I attended Bakersfield, CA public schools- I believe it has the most churches per capita in the entire world, and consistently elects religious nut jobs to the school board. I can only imagine how bad it is in more "liberal" areas.

I'll help you out here.

It isn't a problem.

I know the same problems exist in San Diego, CA and New Jersey, so, way to be an idiot again. No surprise, of course.

My anecdotal evidence is every bit as good as yours.

[Ban my account ffs!]

There are good public school systems out there though.  Not all of them suffer from the major problems often associated with public schools...but they all suffer from the minor problems that public schools can't avoid.  (like dumb kids, bad kids and "special" kids)

Agreed.  I am constantly surprised by the excellent quality of the schools in my locale, despite the rampant poverty and high number of Native Americans living within or transferring into the district.

Where you send your children to school is your choice... as long as they receive a quality education... but I can easily say that I'd be proud to send my children to my local public schools.