Reasonable Minimum Wage Bill (Law'd)

[Marokai Backbeat]

I, like NCY, would've preferred a higher wage, but this will have to do.

In any case, this is a necessity. Wages often fall in recessions and many of our wages in the regions are woefully inadequate for reaching a decent enough living (or even living above the poverty line.) Many places, such as Canada, are in the process of raising their minimum wage right now, and this is certainly a policy we need to have.

The raises are very gradual, and it would take over a year or even a year and ahalf for the wage to reach it's final state, so it should have less of an impact on businesses. In order to assure our citizens at least a decent living, and protection from sticky wages, we have to assure our citizens they have a right to a decent living.

As for the idea that wages reduce output and increase unemployment, this may have some hint of truth to it in the short term, but we would benefit in the long run. With all the stimulus money going to benefit individuals and give businesses a break, there's no better time to institute a minimum wage than now.

[Marokai Backbeat]

As for the idea that wages reduce output and increase unemployment, this may have some hint of truth to it in the short term, but we would benefit in the long run. With all the stimulus money going to benefit individuals and give businesses a break, there's no better time to institute a minimum wage than now.

It may, therefore be better not to introduce rises incrementally, The cost in adjusting, monitoring and taxing appropriately wages every 4 months would have to be met by the state and by each business. I can understand why (as it makes it cheaper during the downturn, to introduce) but it's staggered over some 20 months. It may be better to simply stagger it over say 18 or 24 months but in two increments, rather than 5.

Introduce an amendment if you like

[Marokai Backbeat]

Clause 4 could be abused in certain cases, perhaps a lower penalty.

I take breaking wage laws very very seriously. You're essentially robbing someone of the ability to live their life, as such I think this penalty is just fine, perhaps even too kind.

Besides, there's alot of wage law breaches that go on in America today, and it's because of a lack of serious penalties or enforcement. We need to guard against such things.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Instead of trying to implement several different clauses for each type of earning, why not just specify that this applies to hourly wage earners or something like that?

[Marokai Backbeat]

Wow, opposed wholeheartedly. The only decent thing there is the first change.

[Marokai Backbeat]

"As wages can be cut in lean times, so too can the minimum wage."

I absolutely, wholeheartedly, completely, 100%, without exception oppose a system where the minimum wage can drop.

Wow, opposed wholeheartedly. The only decent thing there is the first change.

What's wrong with linking the minimum wage to wages?

He didn't think of it first.

Oh would you please go away. I have enough to deal with today without you involved.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I think attaching it to the wage inflation is actually pretty fair.

How about a compromise like U.S. social security checks are run?

Let's tie the minimum wage to "wage inflation", but only if that number is equal or greater than 0, otherwise, it just stays the same.

Whichever way we tie it to inflation is fine, as long as we prevent it from flying along with the winds of the economy, essentially ruining the point of a minimum wage.

I still oppose the amendment, however. Wage violations are very serious to me, I won't be a part of an attempt to let wage laws go only lightly punished.

"As wages can be cut in lean times, so too can the minimum wage."

I absolutely, wholeheartedly, completely, 100%, without exception oppose a system where the minimum wage can drop.

Why not? If there were 3 years of wage deflation, should the minimum wage rise for those three years? It's a bit of kick in the gut for those who earn not far above the minimum wage and see their wages drop. Besides if they fall for one year, if there is wage growth the next year the minimum wage goes back up.

The minimum wage cannot keep increasing regardless of what else is happening in the economy and with comparitive wages.

It could simply stay the same.

I seriously wonder about your definition of the word "minimum" (which, to me, implies some sort of floor) if your idea of a minimum wage is one that floats back and forth. It completely destroys the purpose of a wage minimum if that minimum isn't solid.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I think attaching it to the wage inflation is actually pretty fair.

How about a compromise like U.S. social security checks are run?

Let's tie the minimum wage to "wage inflation", but only if that number is equal or greater than 0, otherwise, it just stays the same.

I would tend to support this idea. As I told Marokai via PM I won't support a minimum wage that falls during deflationary times.

I would also support that by way of a compromise.

EDIT: I have amended the amendment

I still wish that penalties against wage violations were more harsh, but we can work on that.

Would everyone be fine with eliminating Clause 2, though? I regret writing that, and I know at least one or two others have voiced objections to me privately about it.

[Marokai Backbeat]

So afleitch, if you amend your amendment again to remove Clause 2 I'll accept it as friendly and we can move on to another issue.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Therefore

Reasonable Minimum Wage Act

1. A federal minimum wage of $7.25 shall be established by the end of 2009, which shall be increased to $8.50 by the end of 2010.

2. After 2010, the minimum wage shall be indexed to the rate of wage inflation, as measured by the Employment Cost Index (ECI). In periods of wage deflation as measured by the ECI, the minimum wage will be frozen.

3. Any employer found to be paying any of his employees below the minimum wage shall be sentenced to a fine of up to $20,000.

Accepted as friendly!

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'd like to make some amendments to the wage violations section:

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[Marokai Backbeat]

Would that be $30,000 per employee or $30,000 regardless of the number of employees?

I suppose $30,000 regarding the findings no matter the number of employees.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Does anyone object to my change?

[Marokai Backbeat]

I suppose I'm fine keeping the first penalty lower, as long as we can agree on harsher penalties for bigger businesses.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'll just ignore (or withdraw, what have you) my earlier change and make this instead, taking Afleitch's concerns into account:

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It's true, I don't want to punish smaller businesses, but larger businesses have no excuse, and deserve to be punished hard.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Well that wasn't at all what I just wrote. So nay.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Let me make sure first: this is your right amendment, right Marokai?

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Yes indeed.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Aye

[Marokai Backbeat]

Aye

[Marokai Backbeat]

Workers of Atlasia, rejoice!