Which was worse?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 07:05:00 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Election Archive
  Election Archive
  2004 U.S. Presidential Election
  2004 U.S. Presidential Election Campaign
  Which was worse?
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Poll
Question: Which was more important?
#1
Kerry's comment about Mary Cheney
 
#2
Bush's comments that he wasn't too concerned about Bin Laden, and then his subsequent claim that he never said it
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 28

Author Topic: Which was worse?  (Read 3019 times)
Nym90
nym90
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,260
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -2.96

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: October 15, 2004, 05:55:05 PM »

...
Logged
Alcon
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,867
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2004, 06:17:44 PM »

The latter, mostly because it was a more major issue. But both were dumb.

Also, I find it interesting that polls like these get 3-3. A lot of people vote, but don't want to explain. I also think a lot of people vote along party lines while saying something else. I know I am sometimes tempted.
Logged
qwerty
ghwbush
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 706
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2004, 06:21:31 PM »

I know this may be hard to imagine, but perhaps Bush forgot what he said about Bin Laden? I know I tend to forget most things that happened three years ago.
Logged
The Dowager Mod
texasgurl
Moderators
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,973
United States


Political Matrix
E: -9.48, S: -8.57

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2004, 06:22:01 PM »

the second choice.
Logged
YRABNNRM
YoungRepub
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 10,680
United States
Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: -6.09

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2004, 06:22:52 PM »

I would be really amazed if someone answered this non-partisianly.
Logged
Nym90
nym90
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,260
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -2.96

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2004, 06:24:36 PM »

I know this may be hard to imagine, but perhaps Bush forgot what he said about Bin Laden? I know I tend to forget most things that happened three years ago.

True.

However, he shouldn't have said it was untrue unless he knew for sure, and the fact that he said it at all in the first place is the big issue as far as I'm concerned.
Logged
Nym90
nym90
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,260
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -2.96

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2004, 06:26:02 PM »

I would be really amazed if someone answered this non-partisianly.

Probably true.

I take it that you didn't answer it nonpartisanly then? Smiley

Still, being as objective as possible, how is Mary Cheney a bigger issue than Bin Laden and Bush's lack of concern for him?
Logged
Bogart
bogart414
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 603
United States


Political Matrix
E: -0.13, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2004, 06:29:29 PM »

I think that both were said without much thought beforehand. I also think both have been taken out of context. Kerry was trying to simply say that homosexuality is not a choice. It came out in a somewhat clinical way. Bush was not saying he was not concerned about Bin Laden, but more as if he is not going to let Bin Laden change his course of action based on fear.
Logged
The Dowager Mod
texasgurl
Moderators
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,973
United States


Political Matrix
E: -9.48, S: -8.57

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2004, 06:33:34 PM »

Logged
qwerty
ghwbush
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 706
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2004, 06:38:04 PM »

Texasgurl, you are so full of sh**t it's not funny. We all know what he said, when he said it, and we didn't need one of your looney graphics to show it.

And, for a teacher, you have the worst spelling and grammar I have ever seen.
Logged
The Dowager Mod
texasgurl
Moderators
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,973
United States


Political Matrix
E: -9.48, S: -8.57

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2004, 06:42:38 PM »

didn't take you long to go back to being the same old asswipe.
Logged
qwerty
ghwbush
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 706
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2004, 06:44:13 PM »

Shove it TexasBiatch.
Logged
YRABNNRM
YoungRepub
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 10,680
United States
Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: -6.09

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2004, 06:44:21 PM »
« Edited: October 15, 2004, 06:47:21 PM by Vice President Andrew »

I would be really amazed if someone answered this non-partisianly.

Probably true.

I take it that you didn't answer it nonpartisanly then? Smiley

Still, being as objective as possible, how is Mary Cheney a bigger issue than Bin Laden and Bush's lack of concern for him?

I don't think it's a bigger issue, I think that was a mistake on Bush's part to say he that he never said than and probably a bigger mistake to say that he wasn't concerned about Bin Laden...we know he's had his fare share Wink

I think what GWB was trying to say was that he wasn't concerned because Bin Laden is probably in a cave and has no means of carrying out major attacks anymore but perhaps that should be up to him to clear it up.

The reason I voted for Kerrys comment was that I think it was completely disrespectful and Bush's was simply a gaffe.
Logged
qwerty
ghwbush
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 706
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2004, 06:45:50 PM »

I think what GWB was trying to say was that he wasn't concerned because Bin Laden is probably in a cave and has no means of carrying out major attacks anymore but perhaps that should be up to him to clear it up.

Don't let the facts get in the way of their opinion.
Logged
The Duke
JohnD.Ford
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,270


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: -1.23

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2004, 07:48:52 PM »

If I'm not mistaken, the remainder of the Bush quote is something along the lines of the priority is the network, not the one guy.  If you watch them play the quote on TV, his mouth is still moving after the sound stops.  Its reasonable that the quote, in context, means something different than the partial quote seems to, and I'm pretty sure that this was the adminsitrations official position at the time that the network, not the man, was our enemy.
Logged
qwerty
ghwbush
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 706
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2004, 08:04:03 PM »

From that press confrence...

Q    Mr. President, in your speeches now you rarely talk or mention Osama bin Laden.  Why is that?  Also, can you tell the American people if you have any more information, if you know if he is dead or alive?  Final part  --  deep in your heart, don't you truly believe that until you find out if he is dead or alive, you won't really eliminate the threat of  --

THE PRESIDENT:  Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, if he's alive at all.  Who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not; we haven't heard from him in a long time.  And the idea of focusing on one person is --  really indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission.

Terror is bigger than one person.  And he's just  --  he's a person who's now been marginalized.  His network, his host government has been destroyed.  He's the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match.  He is  --  as I mentioned in my speech, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death and he, himself, tries to hide  --  if, in fact, he's hiding at all.

So I don't know where he is.  You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you.  I'm more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied; that the strategy is clear; that the coalition is strong; that when we find enemy bunched up like we did in Shahikot Mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did.

And there will be other battles in Afghanistan.  There's going to be other struggles like Shahikot, and I'm just as confident about the outcome of those future battles as I was about Shahikot, where our soldiers are performing brilliantly.  We're tough, we're strong, they're well-equipped. We have a good strategy.  We are showing the world we know how to fight a guerrilla war with conventional means.

Q    But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?

THE PRESIDENT:  Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him.  And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure.  And, again, I don't know where he is.  I  --  I'll repeat what I said.  I truly am not that concerned about him.  I know he is on the run.  I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country.  I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban.

But once we set out the policy and started executing the plan, he became  --  we shoved him out more and more on the margins.  He has no place to train his al Qaeda killers anymore.  And if we  --  excuse me for a minute  --  and if we find a training camp, we'll take care of it. Either we will or our friends will. That's one of the things  --  part of the new phase that's becoming apparent to the American people is that we're working closely with other governments to deny sanctuary, or training, or a place to hide, or a place to raise money.

And we've got more work to do.  See, that's the thing the American people have got to understand, that we've only been at this six months. This is going to be a long struggle.  I keep saying that; I don't know whether you all believe me or not.  But time will show you that it's going to take a long time to achieve this objective.  And I can assure you, I am not going to blink.  And I'm not going to get tired.  Because I know what is at stake.  And history has called us to action, and I am going to seize this moment for the good of the world, for peace in the world and for freedom.
Logged
Mikem
Rookie
**
Posts: 84


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2004, 09:16:47 PM »

As you can see Bush's comment was obviously taken out of context.  You can blame him for mincing words I suppose, not wording correctly, but come on, don't play dumb as if you didn't know what he meant.  Thats what network news is for.

Kerry on the other hand, knew what he was doing.  It was planned out, why else would this tiny fact come up twice?  It's an underhanded way to try to cut-off Buh/Cheney right-wingers because of homosexuality in the VPs family.
Logged
raggage
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 505


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2004, 12:06:31 AM »


There is no need for that. That goes for you too TexasGurl.
Logged
opebo
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 47,010


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2004, 12:42:54 AM »

Its perfectly legitimate for Kerry to bring up Cheney's betrayal of his daughter.  The most hilarious part is Cheney's wife saying Kerry is 'not a good man', when she is supporting a party based on religious intolerance which gains a good portion of its popularity from bashing gays and attempting to limit their civil rights.
Logged
qwerty
ghwbush
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 706
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2004, 06:30:23 AM »

And Cheney's daughter obviousley feels betrayed, she has no contact with him and does not appear on the campaign trail. She did not appear after the debate on stage with her life partner.
Logged
Cessna
Guest
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2004, 12:00:01 PM »
« Edited: October 16, 2004, 12:07:00 PM by Cessna »

I voted that Kerry's comments were more important, but not from a viewpoint of which issue is more important. 

I voted based on the setting, and the purpose, or perceived purpose for which each one may have made the statements, so I am not saying the homosexual issues are more important or less important than homeland security.

In the setting for which the statements were made I come to these conclusions:

Kerry made the statement to make a "political stab" at the Republican Party.

Bush made the statement because in the heat of the issue, and a green/yellow/red light timing you, he didn't have time to think about what all he's said in his political past, and therefore had forgotten about previous comments.

Now, here's something interesting to see.  I hope the media plays back the previous comments Bush made, and do a split-screen with Bush watching his previous comments.  And see if Bush (while watching himself makes the comments) denies that he made them.

Kerry, in a split-screen, watched himself throw medals/ribbons over a fence, and  make anti-war statements, and denied it even while he was watching pre-recorded images of him doing it!

I am neither Republican nor Democrat, so my views are not to favor one or the other.  This is just how I see it. 

I also think Bush's previous comments about not being concerned with Bin Laden may be interpreted wrong too.  He may not have been worried at the time he stated it.  In the course of war, his concern may have been higher.  I will stand on his concerns because when I was on a military base, Bin Laden's face was posted all over, and we were told what his crimes were, why he is a most wanted, and what the other issues were concerning him.  This was in effect during the 9/11 time, so I believe he was indeed concerned or we would not have gotten the bullitens about him.

Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.23 seconds with 16 queries.