73% of doctors support a public option

[opebo]

Fail.

Hey, if you want, you can come here and have my health care system and I'll go over there and use your fancy NHS. Though, being a libertarian, I assume when you're sick you don't go to the NHS because you refuse to let socialism treat you?

I haven't been in hospital since I was born.

That's a little scary.  Don't you have to have immunizations and physicals for school and such?

We do here... otherwise they won't enroll you.  Of course ability to pay isn't a problem either since the schools often help set up clinics for needy children.

I'm sure he just goes to the doctor's office like every other little privileged child.. not the hospital.

[Хahar 🤔]

Fail.

Hey, if you want, you can come here and have my health care system and I'll go over there and use your fancy NHS. Though, being a libertarian, I assume when you're sick you don't go to the NHS because you refuse to let socialism treat you?

I haven't been in hospital since I was born.

How?

I went to the hospital yesterday.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Fail.

Hey, if you want, you can come here and have my health care system and I'll go over there and use your fancy NHS. Though, being a libertarian, I assume when you're sick you don't go to the NHS because you refuse to let socialism treat you?

I haven't been in hospital since I was born.

That's a little scary.  Don't you have to have immunizations and physicals for school and such?

We do here... otherwise they won't enroll you.  Of course ability to pay isn't a problem either since the schools often help set up clinics for needy children.

I'm sure he just goes to the doctor's office like every other little privileged child.. not the hospital.

Yeah, I guess... it's just that our clinic and hospital are adjoined and the doctors work both in the clinic and hospital.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

How?

I went to the hospital yesterday.

If you're never seriously ill or injured, then there's no reason to go to hospital (as a patient). Minor stuff gets done at GP surgeries.

[Badger]

Fail.

Hey, if you want, you can come here and have my health care system and I'll go over there and use your fancy NHS. Though, being a libertarian, I assume when you're sick you don't go to the NHS because you refuse to let socialism treat you?

I haven't been in hospital since I was born.

It's only been, what, 8 years? Give it time. This will change.

[Badger]

npr lol

<<The survey was designed and conducted by Drs. Salomeh Keyhani and Alex Federman of Mount Sinai School of Medicine. Over the summer of 2009, they surveyed a random sample of more than 2,000 physicians.>>

Read the fine print.

EPIC fail.

Any other Republicans want to try squirming an explanation out of this? C'mon in, the quicksand's fine!

[Stampever]

Polls are a funny thing...

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=506309

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I always love the imput of one of Atlas' finest DINOs, thank you Stamp.

[Lunar]

Stampever:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/09/ibdtipp-doctors-poll-is-not-trustworthy.html

That was a self-selecting MAIL poll with loaded questions and no explanation for methodology.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Stampever:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/09/ibdtipp-doctors-poll-is-not-trustworthy.html

That was a self-selecting MAIL poll with loaded questions and no explanation for methodology.

I really should start regularly viewing 538 again.

[Stampever]

That was a self-selecting MAIL poll with loaded questions and no explanation for methodology.

You obviously missed the point I was making.  The point is, there are so many polls out there saying so many different things, that they simply become meaningless.  We have polls show doctors both in favor and against reform.  We have polls show people both in favor and against public options.  With something on the scale and scope as this omnibus health care reform bill, no one really knows what to think, even the professionals.

[Stampever]

I always love the imput of one of Atlas' finest DINOs, thank you Stamp.

I do my best to keep the loonies in my party in check. 

[Marokai Backbeat]

That was a self-selecting MAIL poll with loaded questions and no explanation for methodology.

You obviously missed the point I was making.  The point is, there are so many polls out there saying so many different things, that they simply become meaningless. 

A bullsh** poll with a terrible history and horrific methodology does nothing to disprove a respectable poll with few to no noticeable flaws in it's execution. The poll you cited could basically just be as credible as someone making up numbers on the spot, unlike the other.

I always love the imput of one of Atlas' finest DINOs, thank you Stamp.

I do my best to keep the loonies in my party in check. 

Did you even vote for Democrats? I've not seen you support anything progressive or even anything supported by a majority of Democrats.

Why are you a Democrat?

[Stampever]

Did you even vote for Democrats? I've not seen you support anything progressive or even anything supported by a majority of Democrats.

Why are you a Democrat?

Yes.

Oh people with little minds.  "Progressive" is a small aspect of the Democratic Party, and in many instances, it is used just as an alternative label to "liberal."  I'm not "liberal" in the modern definition.  If anything, I'm more of a classical liberal in the European sense (hence, I'm a blue dog) - one who believes in economic freedom while attaining social equality.  As far as "support," I've only really discussed two issues on this forum, the primary one being Health care.  I don't believe in the crap that our party is trying to push down on us since it goes beyond the assigned responsibilities of the federal government.  Health care, the service and an industry, is not a government function.  The government's role should only be to make sure that monopolies aren't formed and that people aren't being taken advantage of.  That is achieved through oversight and regulations, not by creating a health care wing of the government (a public option will do that since someone has to manage plans, the patients, and the expenses).  As a "Progressive," you should be in favor of legislation and not "tax and spend" (which is the case under a public option) that is embraced under the modern definition of "liberal."

Why am I a Democrat?  Because I'm not a Republican, or a Green, or a Commie.  Any other dumb questions?

[Badger]

That was a self-selecting MAIL poll with loaded questions and no explanation for methodology.

You obviously missed the point I was making.  The point is, there are so many polls out there saying so many different things, that they simply become meaningless.  We have polls show doctors both in favor and against reform.  We have polls show people both in favor and against public options.  With something on the scale and scope as this omnibus health care reform bill, no one really knows what to think, even the professionals.

But it's important to actually look at the methodology of individual polls to determine whether one might be valid and the other crap. It's the intellectually lazy approach to simply say "Poll A says this, but Poll B says the opposite; so the truth must lie somewhere in between or otherwise be too muddled to clearly discern". (This is, FWIW, the MSM approach to anything, which gives lunatics from all fringes, but particularly the birthers, any semblance of credability. Instead of actually reporting the bloody facts, they merely put up two opposing spokespersons, ask both an equal ratio of pointed and softball questions no matter how outlandish and devoid of reality the position of one person might be, and avoid all charges of <gasp> bias by declaring the matter "a controversy". But I digress greatly).

538 makes some ex cellant points. The best (but hardly the only) is that this same pollster had McCain leading 18-24 year old voters a week before the election 74-22! 538 goes on to point out several other obvious problems with the poll, but that number should give you a good taste.

My own observations: I very much want to know more about this sample purchased from a list broker.

Finally, the more I think about this: "45% of Doctors Would Consider Quitting if Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul".

"I declare shenanigans!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdjFKDrK1vY

Unless those results are outright falsified by the pollster, to get those numbers this poll picked heavily from the lunatic fringe and is anything but representative.

Now the Mt. Sinai Hospital poll that originally started this thread was admittedly commissioned by two doctors supporting health care reform, but I have yet to hear any specific critiques of their polling methods. Until I do, I'm FAR more willing to trust its results than this piece of dung IDB/TIPP is trying to pass off.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If anything, I'm more of a classical liberal in the European sense (hence, I'm a blue dog) - one who believes in economic freedom while attaining social equality.

I'm increasingly forced to come to the conclusion that 99.9% of people on the internet who use the term "classic liberal" have no idea what it actually means.

[Alcon]

Stampever, are you seriously advancing the tired "all polls are flawed and everyone is biased so we should treat them all equally" argument?  You know better than that.

(Isn't Lake Research a Democratic pollster...?)

[Stampever]

If anything, I'm more of a classical liberal in the European sense (hence, I'm a blue dog) - one who believes in economic freedom while attaining social equality.

I'm increasingly forced to come to the conclusion that 99.9% of people on the internet who use the term "classic liberal" have no idea what it actually means.

Well, if you want to use the Wiki definition, it says:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

From the Future of Freedom Foundation article on the rise and fall of Classical Liberalism:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I can go on, but you get the point.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Did you even vote for Democrats? I've not seen you support anything progressive or even anything supported by a majority of Democrats.

Why are you a Democrat?

Yes.

Oh people with little minds.  "Progressive" is a small aspect of the Democratic Party, and in many instances, it is used just as an alternative label to "liberal."  I'm not "liberal" in the modern definition.  If anything, I'm more of a classical liberal in the European sense (hence, I'm a blue dog) - one who believes in economic freedom while attaining social equality.  As far as "support," I've only really discussed two issues on this forum, the primary one being Health care.  I don't believe in the crap that our party is trying to push down on us since it goes beyond the assigned responsibilities of the federal government.  Health care, the service and an industry, is not a government function.  The government's role should only be to make sure that monopolies aren't formed and that people aren't being taken advantage of.  That is achieved through oversight and regulations, not by creating a health care wing of the government (a public option will do that since someone has to manage plans, the patients, and the expenses).  As a "Progressive," you should be in favor of legislation and not "tax and spend" (which is the case under a public option) that is embraced under the modern definition of "liberal."

Why am I a Democrat?  Because I'm not a Republican, or a Green, or a Commie.  Any other dumb questions?

Forgive me, but, you didn't really answer my question. What left wing positions do you support?

Also, Progressives represent something of a plurality in the Democratic Party. We have plenty of "centrists" and the like, but the party is run by, and largely led by, progressive Democrats. People like you are the last hold-outs of the Dixiecrats.

[Stampever]

Forgive me, but, you didn't really answer my question. What left wing positions do you support?

Also, Progressives represent something of a plurality in the Democratic Party. We have plenty of "centrists" and the like, but the party is run by, and largely led by, progressive Democrats. People like you are the last hold-outs of the Dixiecrats.

What part of "social equality" didn't you understand?  That a Democratic position.  (I didn't say anything about "left wing.") 

As far as Dixiecrats, you are incorrect.  I'm not a segregationist, and I'm against racism.  Just accept that all Democrats aren't automatically "left wing," and get on with life.

[Хahar 🤔]

Er, the Democrats are the left-wing party.

[The Vorlon]

This is hardly a shock.

Doctors "sell" medicine, and with additiional trillions in tax money funneled into the medical system, they have more customers and sell more product.

I bet a large majority of auto-body shop owners favor mandatory subsidized national colision auto insurance as well...

This is a surprise?

[Badger]

If anything, I'm more of a classical liberal in the European sense (hence, I'm a blue dog) - one who believes in economic freedom while attaining social equality.

I'm increasingly forced to come to the conclusion that 99.9% of people on the internet who use the term "classic liberal" have no idea what it actually means.

Of course they do.

It's being economically progressive for the 19th century.

[Badger]

This is hardly a shock.

Doctors "sell" medicine, and with additiional trillions in tax money funneled into the medical system, they have more customers and sell more product.

I bet a large majority of auto-body shop owners favor mandatory subsidized national colision auto insurance as well...

This is a surprise?

That sounds much more like Baucus's plan than Obama's.

Regardless, it focuses the point that health care reform means less about sacrificing choice and availability of medical care, but rather sacrificing monoplisitic HMO profits.

[dead0man]

Er, the Democrats are the left-wing party.

There is no "left" in America.  At least that's what I keep hearing at this political forum I keep going to.