Wilson Resolution
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Author Topic: Wilson Resolution  (Read 1339 times)
Lunar
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« on: September 15, 2009, 05:05:28 PM »

Dem Nays (12)
Arcuri
Delahunt
Giffords
Hinchey
Hodes
Kucinich
Maffei
Massa
McDermott
Moore (WI)
Taylor
Teague

Dem Presents (5)
Engel
Foster
Frank (MA)
Shea-Porter
Skelton

Republican yeas (7)
Cao
Emerson
Flake
Inglis
Jones
Petri
Rohrabacher
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
GM3PRP
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2009, 05:11:43 PM »

It pisses me off but doesn't surprise me that big mouths like Boehner and Cantor can't fucking do what's right.......just for once.
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Lunar
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2009, 05:14:20 PM »

Google doesn't help me figure out why Kucinich voted no.
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You kip if you want to...
change08
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2009, 05:31:08 PM »


What now?
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paul718
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2009, 05:50:14 PM »
« Edited: September 15, 2009, 05:56:59 PM by paul718 »

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Hey Dems, I found your Bachmann! Tongue
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2009, 06:03:54 PM »

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Hey Dems, I found your Bachmann! Tongue

Yeah, how dare he call racist a guy who thinks that the heritage of the Confederacy is "honorable" and that it's flag should fly over the South Carolina capitol.
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paul718
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2009, 06:19:31 PM »

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Hey Dems, I found your Bachmann! Tongue

Yeah, how dare he call racist a guy who thinks that the heritage of the Confederacy is "honorable" and that it's flag should fly over the South Carolina capitol.

That has nothing to do with the two words Joe Wilson is being admonished for.
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Хahar 🤔
Xahar
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2009, 06:21:36 PM »

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Hey Dems, I found your Bachmann! Tongue

This is the Buddhist, right?
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jfern
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« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2009, 12:00:04 AM »

Google doesn't help me figure out why Kucinich voted no.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/9/15/782607/-The-Private-Mandate-Sausage-Machine
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Lunar
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« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2009, 12:15:10 AM »

I don't see how that explains his vote favoring Joe Wilson
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2009, 01:16:47 AM »

He clearly violated the rules of the House.  I would've voted AYE, just as I would've voted AYE if a resolution had been brought up against Democrats who called Bush a liar on the House floor.

House rules are House rules - if you don't like them, don't be a Congressman.
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Lunar
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« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2009, 01:49:36 AM »


I'm not sure if it's super clear, at least if you're citing the rule where calling the president a "liar" is forbidden..
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Franzl
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« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2009, 01:50:43 AM »

Shouldn't Pelosi have more important things to worry about?
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Lunar
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« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2009, 01:53:47 AM »

Shouldn't Pelosi have more important things to worry about?

I don't think she was there during most/all of it.*

This is Clyburn's feud with Wilson and Pelosi doesn't have enough clout to deny Clyburn this satisfaction.

* http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0909/Five_points_about_Wilsonstock_09.html
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2009, 03:20:44 AM »

Hodes huh
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jmfcst
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« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2009, 02:54:57 PM »

He clearly violated the rules of the House.  I would've voted AYE, just as I would've voted AYE if a resolution had been brought up against Democrats who called Bush a liar on the House floor.

House rules are House rules - if you don't like them, don't be a Congressman.
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2009, 03:03:42 PM »

He clearly violated the rules of the House.  I would've voted AYE, just as I would've voted AYE if a resolution had been brought up against Democrats who called Bush a liar on the House floor.

House rules are House rules - if you don't like them, don't be a Congressman.
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JSojourner
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« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2009, 04:08:28 PM »

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Hey Dems, I found your Bachmann! Tongue

LOL Paul!  We've been taking applications for awhile...even since Cynthia McKinney and Al Sharpton fell into relative obscurity.

And yes, you're spot on.
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Holmes
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« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2009, 04:15:39 PM »


Mm, mmhmm.
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Badger
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« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2009, 06:57:41 PM »

He clearly violated the rules of the House.  I would've voted AYE, just as I would've voted AYE if a resolution had been brought up against Democrats who called Bush a liar on the House floor.

House rules are House rules - if you don't like them, don't be a Congressman.
HUGE difference between any congressman from either party referring to the president as a liar during a House speech, versus heckling the president during a joint session address. The former is mere exercise of free speech. The issue here is chastising Wilson for heckling, not the content of what he said. Whether it was "you lie!", "Marxist!", or "Clemson sucks!", such an outburst is grossly inappropriate for the occasion and his status as a Congressman (even a backbencher). This isn't the British House of Commons, people.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2009, 08:07:27 PM »

This isn't the British House of Commons, people.

If he'd shouted "you lie" in the Commons, he'd be in even more trouble than he is now. The Commons has a list of banned words - "lie" is one of them (so, fwiw, are "blackguard", "nincompoop" and "drunk"). But other than those words, M.P's can pretty much say whatever they like. They're even immune from our comically restrictive libel and slander laws.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
Inks.LWC
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« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2009, 01:16:08 AM »


I'm not sure if it's super clear, at least if you're citing the rule where calling the president a "liar" is forbidden..

I thought it was pretty clear.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
Inks.LWC
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« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2009, 01:17:47 AM »

He clearly violated the rules of the House.  I would've voted AYE, just as I would've voted AYE if a resolution had been brought up against Democrats who called Bush a liar on the House floor.

House rules are House rules - if you don't like them, don't be a Congressman.
HUGE difference between any congressman from either party referring to the president as a liar during a House speech, versus heckling the president during a joint session address. The former is mere exercise of free speech. The issue here is chastising Wilson for heckling, not the content of what he said. Whether it was "you lie!", "Marxist!", or "Clemson sucks!", such an outburst is grossly inappropriate for the occasion and his status as a Congressman (even a backbencher). This isn't the British House of Commons, people.

No - it's not free speech, because it's still a violation of Houes rules. Although, Wilson also violated House rules by speaking when not recognized by the chair.  However, Democrats calling Bush a liar on the chamber floor was also a violation of the rules.  To argue otherwise is just wrong.
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Lunar
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« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2009, 01:34:17 AM »


I'm not sure if it's super clear, at least if you're citing the rule where calling the president a "liar" is forbidden..

I thought it was pretty clear.

if that's the case, then saying "you lie" (what you're saying is not true) is different than "you're a liar" IMO...maybe not legally different, but it could be argued in court
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
Inks.LWC
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« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2009, 01:49:31 AM »


I'm not sure if it's super clear, at least if you're citing the rule where calling the president a "liar" is forbidden..

I thought it was pretty clear.

if that's the case, then saying "you lie" (what you're saying is not true) is different than "you're a liar" IMO...maybe not legally different, but it could be argued in court

Here's a copy of the text from the House rules.  Calling him a liar or accusing him of lying are both violations of the rules:

  Personal abuse, innuendo, or ridicule of the President, is not
permitted (VIII, 2497; Aug. 12, 1986, p. 21078; Oct. 21, 1987, p. 8857;
Sept. 21, 1994, p. 25147; Sep. 7, 2006, p. ----). Under this standard it
is not in order to call the President, or a presumptive major-party
nominee for President, a ``liar'' or accuse him of ``lying'' (June 26,
1985, p. 17394; Sept. 24, 1992, pp. 27345, 27346; Nov. 15, 1995, p.
32587; June 6, 1996, pp. 13228, 13229; Mar. 18, 1998, p. 3937; Nov. 14,
2002, p. 22370; July 15, 2003, p. ----; Mar. 24, 2004, p. ----). Indeed,
any suggestion of mendacity is out of order. For example, the following
remarks have been held out of order: (1) suggesting that the President
misrepresented the truth, attempted to obstruct justice, and encouraged
others to perjure themselves (Feb. 25, 1998, p. 2621); (2) accusing him
of dishonesty (July 13, 2004, p. ----; June 29, 2005, p. ----), accusing
him of making a ``dishonest argument'' (Sept. 12, 2006, p. ----),
charging him with intent to be intellectually dishonest (May 9, 1990, p.
9828), or stating that many were convinced he had ``not been honest''
(Mar. 5, 1998, p. 2620); (3) accusing him of ``raping'' the truth (Apr.
24, 1996, p. 8807), not telling the truth (Oct. 29, 2003, p. ----), or
distorting the truth (Sept. 9, 2003, p. ----); (4) stating that he was
not being ``straight with us'' (Nov. 19, 2003, p. ----); (5) accusing
him of being deceptive (Mar. 29, 2004, p. ----; Mar. 31, 2004, p. ----;
Feb. 1, 2006, p. ----), fabricating an issue (July 6, 2004, p. ----), or
intending to mislead the public (Oct. 6, 2004, p. ----; June 9, 2005, p.
----); (6) accusing him of intentional mischaracterization, although
mischaracterization without intent to deceive is not necessarily out of
order (July 19, 2005, p. ----).
  Furthermore, the following remarks have been held out of order as
unparliamentary references to the President, or to a presumptive major-
party nominee for President: (1) attributing to him ``hypocrisy'' (Sept.
25, 1992, p. 27674; Apr. 26, 2006, p. ----); (2) accusing him of giving
``aid and comfort to the enemy'' (Jan. 25, 1995, p. 2352; May 6, 2004,
p. ----); (3) accusing him of ``demagoguery'' (Jan. 23, 1996, p. 1144;
Jan. 24, 1996, pp. 1220, 1221; May 30, 1996, pp. 12646, 12647); (4)
calling him a ``draft-dodger'' (Apr. 24, 1996, pp. 8807, 8808; Sept. 30,
1996, p. 26603) or alleging unexcused absences from military service
(May 5, 2004, p. ----), including allegations that the President was
``A.W.O.L.'' (Sept. 22, 2004, p. ----); (5)

[[Page 187]]

describing his action as ``cowardly'' (Oct. 25, 1989, p. 25817); (6)
referring to him as ``a little bugger'' (Nov. 18, 1995, p. 33974); (7)
alluding to alleged sexual misconduct on his part (May 10, 1994, p.
9697; Feb. 25, 1998, p. 1828; Mar. 5, 1998, p. 2620; May 18, 1998, p.
9418); (Cool alluding to unethical behavior or corruption (e.g., June 20,
1996, p. 14829; July 9, 2002, p. 12286; Oct. 29, 2003, p. ----), such as
implying a cause-and-effect relationship between political contributions
and his actions as President (e.g., May 22, 2001, p. 9028; Sept. 29,
2004, p. ----), including an accusation that the President had ``lined
the pockets'' of his ``political cronies'' and filled ``campaign
coffers'' (Sept. 14, 2005, p. ----); (9) discussing ``charges'' leveled
at the President or under investigation (Mar. 19, 1998, p. 4094; June
11, 1998, p. 12025), including alluding to ``fund-raising abuses'' (Mar.
14, 2000, p. 2716) or speculating that the Vice President might someday
pardon the President for certain charges (Apr. 12, 2000, p. 5419); or
discussing alleged criminal conduct (Sept. 10, 1998, p. 19976) or
``illegal surveillance'' (June 20, 2006, p. ----); (10) discussing
personal conduct even as a point of reference or comparison (July 16,
1998, p. 15784; Sept. 9, 1998, p. 19735); (11) asserting that a major-
party nominee had done something ``disgusting'' and ``despicable' (Mar.
11, 2004, p. ----); (12) asserting that a major-party nominee is not ``a
large enough person'' to apologize (Mar. 11, 2004, p. ----) or that the
President does not care about black people (Sept. 8, 2005, p. ----);
(13) describing his action as ``arrogant'' (Jan. 11, 2007, p. ----; Mar.
22, 2007, p. ----); (14) equating his decisions with regard to armed
conflict as him having ``slaughtered'' thousands (Mar. 8, 2007, p. ----
). The Chair may admonish Members transgressing this stricture even
after other debate has intervened (Jan. 23, 1996, p. 1144).
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