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Author Topic: Un United States  (Read 10318 times)
Teddy (IDS Legislator)
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« on: September 24, 2009, 02:07:16 am »
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I dont know what the rules are about starting games here, but I'll give this a shot.

There is a game I've been thinking about creating off and on for a while. The "engine" that runs the game is what's important - The setting is not. That being said, I think I found a great setting for the game, the United States in the 1700s.

Here is the map:

click to zoom in.

Each player would take over one State. Each state has "Cities", "Towns", and "Settlements". Areas outside the cities are faming areas. You play the rule of the Governor of a certain state, under a unrealistic articles of confederation. This limits what you can and cannot do. You have two major neighbouring countries, Britain (Canada), and Spain (Louisiana and Florida)

First and foremost, is that nearly every state has a claim on land that it does not fully control. Only Rhode Island, Delaware, and New Jersey do not, the other 10 do. In most instances, this control is disputed, in some cases by more than one other state. Thats where the fun part (IE war) comes in.

The "Federal Government" is a weak useless tool, but its power is needed for certain things, and can be used in certain ways. Each "Turn" takes a season (4 months). Every 4 years, there is a federal "Election" in which each state gets to cast one ballot for who should be President. Each state must vote for someone, it cannot toss out its vote, or vote for someone invalid. The only person invalid to become President is the current President. The President must be a Governor. This means that the 13 players will have to vote for one another, and to prevent a 13-way tie, the sitting President must vote for someone else.

As President you get a whole bunch of neat powers. For one thing, you get control over the Federal Budget... which actually is not very impressive. The good thing is the only real "Federal" expense you have is maintenance of a Federal Military. Again, not a very impressive thing. In a one-on-one conflict, the Federal Military would likely lose a war against Virgina. However, if you are North Carolina, having the Federal Military on your side will certainly help if Virgina decides to declare war on you. The Federal Army has been specifically balanced to lose in a one-on-one battle with any state, except perhaps the small states (Delaware, Rhode Island, likely even Georgia, New Hampshire, possibly even New Jersey) What is more impressive is the Federal Navy.

Either way. Congress is made up of the following members. 1 Senator per state. 1 Representative per Town and 2 per City. All members of the House and Senate vote how you (the Governor) tell them to. Approval from Congress is needed in order to do certain things; one of which is to go to war with another nation (Spain, the UK). Congress also acts as a middle-man on trade issues.

This game will have a trade engine. Certain things are produced in certain places, and used in others. For example, one Town or City might be near a forest and hence produce large amounts of Wood. If you want to build a Navy, you are going to need that Wood. You can buy it from the other State for a set price (you negotiate it as you wish) but if no state will sell you wood, you can always purchase it from the national middle-man, Congress, who in turn buys it from another country, taxes the heck out of it, and then sells it back to you at a very inflated price. This means you can never "run out" of anything, you can only "run out of affordable" things.

As Game Master, I'd play the foreign nations, as well as administer the game.


Anyways, I dont even know if this sort of thing is allowed, but if so, I think it could be fun.
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TEDDY - ARKANSAS - IDS - Liberal Whip



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Teddy (IDS Legislator)
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« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2009, 03:19:05 am »
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Each state will have a Legislature and a Governor. Gubernatorial Elections take place every 4 years. They are scheduled to be in between presidential elections. The game begins in Winter of 1784. The first Presidential elections are between Fall and Winter of 1786, with the first State elections between Fall and Winter of 1788.


Each state has a Senate of 25 people and a House of 100.

In the House are a number of political parties. We will get back to these shortly. In the Senate there are no parties. Rather, there are pro administration and anti administration senators. Senate Elections are held every year, between Fall and Winter. They are held just prior to the Gubernatorial elections, when the latter are held. Governors are not elected directly, rather, are elected by the Senate. Hence, you need Senate support in order to get re-elected.

Just because the Senate has 13 anti-administration members at Election Time does not mean you automatically lose. Rather, those members can split their votes and you can win with less than a Majority. This, in short, will happen any time there are no players waiting to play. If there, however, are players willing and ready to play and you are unpopular, they may well be elected to your job. Senators will reflect how much support you have across the State. If you keep taxes low, spend on social programs, grow the economy, and otherwise follow your citizens demands, you can count on Senate support. Otherwise, your out.

The House has political parties. Not Democrats and Republicans, but parties that demand certain actions. There is, for example, a pro-war party. They will want you to attack someone. There is also a pro-peace party, that wants you not to attack anyone. A low taxes party, a high spending party, etc etc. The Legislature can, and will block your actions, or, force you to take actions if your policies get too far from what they want. They can modify your budgets, refuse declarations of war, or best of all, declare war without your approval. The legislature will not act out against you, though, unless they have a majority in both chambers. IE a majority anti-administration senators, along with a majority of House members who want a particular course of action. The single best way to keep your population happy is to respond to their house elections. If they elect a pro-war party, go to war. If they elect a pro-peace party, end the war.

The above is to stop the crazy results that these games sometimes cause. Often a group of warlike players can take over the entire 'world' within a few years, or, a group of pro-peace players can stop any wars from happening at all. No longer can such unbalanced things occur. You will still have great liberty to do whatever you want, but if you go too far off the deep end of begin pro-war or anti-war, your Legislature will let you know in no uncertain terms.

One thing you'll need to go to war is a casus belli, or a reason to go to war. Any areas which you claim are good places to start wars. You can build up a claim to some place, or go to War with a neighbor that's just plain ticking you off; but stabbing your much smaller best friend in the back is going to have negative repercussions. For one thing, your people wont like it and might well vote in pro-peace parties in revenge. They may also vote in a Senate opposed to you. Citizens of other nations wont like it either, and may direct their legislators to pressure their governor to reject trade deals with you.

In short - if you are a "bad boy" the citizens of this world will know it, and will punish you for it.

All of this is to keep the game within certain realistic limits. You wont be able to take advantage of any perceived or found mathematical loophole in the budget for example.

Why is all this done? Well I've played these games before, and the same things tend to happen to often.

1
The superpowers in the game decide this will be a war game. They invade every last country they can think of, usually taking them out one at a time. Other superpowers accept this is how the game will be played and are busy taking their own nations to be ready for the final battle. By the end of it the game only has 2 or 3 players left who then duke it out, usually with nuclear weapons, and destroy the planet.

2
The superpowers in the game decide this will be a peace game. Any country attacking any other country for any reason are met with an alliance of superpower forces which seal you back in your borders. The superpowers then use their super economies to gain an exponential edge on everyone, until one of them is so rich, the game ends due to unbalance.

3
One nation is able to figure out the math behind the budget. He borrows the limit the game master will let him and invests the whole thing into some kind of "economic growth" category, then does the same the next year and the next. Shortly, his population is 5,000 times richer than the population in any other country, and he is able to 'buy' his way to victory.


Playing one of the above is not very fun. The introduction of Legislatures with the balls to push you around is designed to stop that. You can play a war or a peace game, but you will be presented with challenges to your strategy that will force you to adapt.
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TEDDY - ARKANSAS - IDS - Liberal Whip



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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2009, 03:37:12 am »
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This sounds awesome.  Hopefully it works out well.  I'd like to try, preferably as New York or New Jersey (if that's how it's going to work).
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Teddy (IDS Legislator)
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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2009, 03:43:23 am »
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This sounds awesome.  Hopefully it works out well.  I'd like to try, preferably as New York or New Jersey (if that's how it's going to work).

It is, and I'll mark you down for those states.
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TEDDY - ARKANSAS - IDS - Liberal Whip



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« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2009, 04:27:29 am »
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I'd like Massachusetts.

EDIT: Do we have any control over trade with foreign (non-State) entities, or must it all be mediated by the Federal government?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2009, 04:32:29 am by Einzige »Logged

Life is change --
How it differs from the rocks
I've seen their ways
Too often for my liking

New worlds to gain
My life is to survive
And be alive
For you


- Jefferson Airplane, "Crown of Creation"

The right to die in Iraq was a right not previously possessed by Americans for twelve long years.  Bush rectified that.
Teddy (IDS Legislator)
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« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2009, 04:41:40 am »
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You can only freely trade with another state. I *may* allow you to trade with another country, but there will be tariffs regardless (IE its significantly cheaper to buy from another state)

...

While the map above does list all "active" claims, there are many "inactive" claims to give you guys plenty of reasons to go to war. They are below.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Marycolony.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Pa_ct_md_va_claims2.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ctcolony.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Gacolony.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Masscolony.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Nycolony.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carolinacolony.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Wpdms_virginia_company_plymouth_council.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Penncolony.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Virginiacolony.png

Also note this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_Western_Reserve

...

Population (estimations)

NH - 87.8k
Mass - 268.6k
RI - 52.9k
CT - 206.7k
NY - 210.5K
NJ - 139.6K
Pen - 327.3K
Del - 54.4K
Mar - 245.5K
Vir - 538.0K
NC - 270.1K
SC - 180.0K
Ga - 56.1K


Kentucky - 45.0K (Owned by Virginia)
Tennessee - 10.0K (owned by NC)
Vermont - 47.6K (disputed, NH, NY)
Maine - 49.1K (owned by Mass)


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TEDDY - ARKANSAS - IDS - Liberal Whip



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« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2009, 05:36:20 am »
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A great idea:) I'd be happy to take New Hampshire or Rhode Island
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Teddy (IDS Legislator)
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« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2009, 06:14:32 am »
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A great idea:) I'd be happy to take New Hampshire or Rhode Island
Noted.

---



For all intents and purposes, what you have is the following:

Maine is owned by Mass. Part of it is claimed by the UK. In general, the rest of it is safe in Mass’ hands. New Hampshire, however, could get away with staking a claim here, but none exists at this point in time.

New Hampshire claims Vermont. We will come back to this. Other than the note above regarding Maine, this is the only claim of NH.

Mass has an active and an inactive claim. The active claim is for a strip of land stretching, hypothetically, to the pacific. The active claim only applies to a point west of a line that exists in modern New York State. Mass has an inactive claim to all of the territory noted, including strips of New Hampshire, and all of Conn and RI. There is a similar claim to most of New York State. A very weak and inactive claim can be laid to most of the continent. Mass is considered one of the stronger powers of the game, and I will give preference to posters with many posts and/or a good strong history in any other atlas games. Mass’ inactive claim also extends to part of Southern Ontario, in the UK.

Rhode Island is one of the smallest states. It has no claims whatsoever. In addition, Claims would be difficult to steak, but could be done especially if in an alliance with another state. For example, New York claims half of Conn, RI could get away with occupying the other half if they worked together.

Conn has the single strongest claim in the entire game, that is to the Western Reserve. The Reserve is the most populated area in the ‘unsettled areas’ and has hundreds of settlers loyal to Conn. The remainder of the claim follows a boundary line similar in respects to that of Mass. Conn also has claims to part of southern New York state including Long Island. Conn claims all of RI.

New York has one of the largest active claims in the game. New York, however, does not have much of an inactive claim beyond this. The state’s inactive claim overlaps with Conn’s claim within Penn, and also contains most of Southern Ontario in the UK.

New Jersey has some limited inactive claims to parts of southern New York state.

Penn itself has very little in the way of claims, but finds itself Claimed by a large number of states. Penn’s most powerful but recently inactive claim is to Delaware. Maryland is also claimed. A claim could even be laid to New Jersey, or extended West, but neither claim exists at this point.

Delaware has no claims whatsoever.

Maryland has no active claims. Inactive claims, however, exist for parts of Penn, and all of Delaware.

Virginia is the game’s main power. It starts holding the Presidency. Its claims extend to nearly the entire unsettled region, and is the only state to have an exclusive claim to any of the region. A very hold historical claim exists that would allow Virginia to claim nearly the entire continent.

North Carolina has a claim to the lands extending west. Part of this overlaps with New York’s claims. North Carolina also has an inactive claim to all of South Carolina.

South Carolina has a claim to the lands extending west. Part of this overlaps with New York’s claims. South Carolina also has an inactive claim to all of North Carolina. South Carolina could potentially stake a claim to Georgia.

Georgia has a claim to all the lands west of it. Part of this is conflicted with an active claim from Spain on behalf of Florida. There is also an inactive Spanish claim on part of the state.


Vermont is disputed by its two claimants. New Hampshire and New York. I am very very reluctant to allow any kind of Independent Vermont. Having new states spring up would make the game difficult since all the claimed areas would just be taken over by new players. If I do decide to allow this, it will only be Vermont, and nothing else. Vermont will also start unrecognized, and you will have to fight for your freedom. I will not be allowing it unless I get enough applications
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TEDDY - ARKANSAS - IDS - Liberal Whip



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Teddy (IDS Legislator)
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« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2009, 06:25:20 am »
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From a more accurate 1789 census

Whole State Populations      
765.5   Virginia   
475.3   Massachusetts   
434.4   Pennsylvania   
389.8   North Carolina   
340.1   New York   
319.7   Maryland   
249.1   South Carolina   
237.9   Connecticut   
227.3   New Hampshire   
184.1   New Jersey   
82.5   Georgia   
68.8   Rhode Island   
59.1   Delaware   
      
      
      
Populations (included above) of disputed areas      
73.7   West Virginia   Part of Virginia
55.9   Kentucky   Part of Virginia
96.5   Maine   Part of Mass
85.4   Vermont   Part of NH, claimed by NY
36.0   Tennessee   Part of NC
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« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2009, 06:55:57 am »
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Thank you Smiley I will take little Delaware. I have a habit in the whole Paradox series of computer games to take small states and keep them secure and thriving.
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« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2009, 06:57:14 am »
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Largest Cities

49,400   New York   NY
28,500   Philadelphia   PA
18,300   Boston   MA
13,500   Baltimore   MD
6,400   Providence   RI
4,500   New Haven   CT
3,800   Richmond   VA
3,500   Albany   NY
3,000   Norfolk   VA
2,700   Alexandria   VA
2,700   Hartford   CT
2,500   Savannah   GA
2,100   Worcester   MA
1,600   Springfield   MA
1,000   Washington   MD
1,000   Lexington-Fayette   VA


Note that the population of the in-game cities will include the surrounding rural areas, and hence, will be way higher than above. The above, however, will be used as a guideline as to which cities are largest.


edit - noted afleitch. Also, keep an eye out of the big blue blob, it just might come visit the americas... who knows!
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« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2009, 07:19:25 am »
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Which areas remain open?
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Teddy (IDS Legislator)
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« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2009, 07:45:50 am »
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Which areas remain open?

They all do. States will not be given out on a first-come-first-serve basis, although being first to ask for one will increase your chances of getting it.

The best option is to provide a list of the top 3 options you want.


---

Resources (for Trade)

FUELS
Coal
Wood

AGRI NON FOODS
Cotton
Furs
Tobacco

METALS
Gold
Silver
Iron Ore
Copper

FOODSTUFFS
Grain
Corn
Fish
Rice


GDP per capita: $100 (about)
TOTAL GDP: $350,000,000 (about)
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Teddy (IDS Legislator)
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« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2009, 08:03:17 am »
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« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2009, 11:36:40 am »
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I'd like New York.
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Update reading list

The idea of parodying the preceding Atlasian's postings is laughable, of course, but not for reasons one might expect.
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« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2009, 12:44:11 pm »
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I'd do Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Mass, CT, or VA...Preference to PA.
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A Socially Liberal, Fiscally Conservative NE Republican with some Left-Libertarian/3rd Way Leanings. Simply, a Rockefeller Republican.

According to one poster, I represent a...

Dying bread of Americans.
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« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2009, 12:49:12 pm »
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This sounds awesome.  Hopefully it works out well.  I'd like to try, preferably as New York or New Jersey (if that's how it's going to work).

Add Georgia to the front of my list, actually.
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Teddy (IDS Legislator)
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« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2009, 04:11:15 pm »
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All the above noted.
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Teddy (IDS Legislator)
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« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2009, 06:20:13 pm »
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More maps to hopefully make the claims make more sense





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« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2009, 06:36:37 pm »
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My choices are NY, MA, CT, MD and VA. Preferences to NY and CT.
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« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2009, 06:38:13 pm »
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I'll take Virginia.
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Teddy (IDS Legislator)
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« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2009, 07:20:23 pm »
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Current Claimants


Einzige - MA
Afleitch - DE, NH, RI
Wyatt - NY
Bull - PA, NJ, MA, CT, VA
Fezzy - GA, NY, NJ
Hash - NY, CT, MA, MD, VA
Deeds - VA
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« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2009, 07:26:27 pm »
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Minor suggestion:

At this point Pittsburgh was already one of the most important towns in the United States (period).  Pittsburgh's strategic location, as it basically provided access the entire Mississippi River system from the East, and thus was the main point of focus for westward expansion and control of the economics of the entire area west of the Appalachians (or the Alleghenies as they were more commonly know a this time).  Any game representing this time period should represent that.
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Teddy (IDS Legislator)
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« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2009, 07:39:47 pm »
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Minor suggestion:

At this point Pittsburgh was already one of the most important towns in the United States (period).  Pittsburgh's strategic location, as it basically provided access the entire Mississippi River system from the East, and thus was the main point of focus for westward expansion and control of the economics of the entire area west of the Appalachians (or the Alleghenies as they were more commonly know a this time).  Any game representing this time period should represent that.
Many more cities, towns, and settlements will be added to the map. They will be done so for two reasons
Historical Accuracy - At this time cities like Hamilton Ontario were larger than Toronto (which was called York), and London Ontario was the largest city in the province. Halifax, meanwhile, was a sprawling metropolis containing over ten thousand people.
Gameplay - Some modern cities did not exist at this time, like Cleveland, but cities like this will be added, as Settlements, to aid and assist in gameplay
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« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2009, 07:49:42 pm »
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May I have Georgia?
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