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Author Topic: Northeast Assembly Thread  (Read 194845 times)
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #150 on: October 03, 2009, 03:14:14 pm »
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Abstinence only sex education never worked and never will work. He have to face the reality. Proposed concessions, like parents contest, would change nothing. So what's the point of passing such act with such amendments?

We need a courage to move on now. We don't have to look at other solutions. We have to create our solution.

I'm ready to face any criticism during election season from those, who disagree with me and I know supporting such bill (not to mention co-authoring) may turn some voters against me, but until I'm the Representative, I will stand up for what I think (and I'm not alone there) is right for the people.
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« Reply #151 on: October 03, 2009, 03:29:19 pm »
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In fact, almost every state that does not require solely abstinence-only sex education provides for some form of  parental opt-out.   And in my opinion, the law in the remaining handful of states is suspect.

Why shouldn't the Northeast law provide an opt-out?  It would put our law in line with almost all others.

Perhaps it's because the Northeast is more courageous on this issue?

This.
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« Reply #152 on: October 04, 2009, 05:36:46 am »
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« Reply #153 on: October 04, 2009, 04:33:06 pm »
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Representative Alexander Hamilton:

Here are the three sets of proposed amendments.  Can you please specify which you have taken as friendly so that we know which need to proceed to a vote:

First: Motion to strike section A, subsection 2 in its entirity.

There's no need to limit this to schools with 401+ students.  If anything, it's the rural populations that need access to this information even more.

Second: Motion to strike section A, subsection 3 in its entirity, and replace it with:
2. The requirements included in this act take effect with the school year starting September 2011.


Certainly, districts will need to create a curriculum and text book publishers will need time to create materials to conform to the requirements of this act.  Once in place, there's no need to exclude people in the class of 2014, 13, and 12.

Motion to amend by insertion as Section B.6:
6. The course must address the issue of homosexuality and concerns specific to that portion of the student population, such as how same-sex partners can limit the risk of transmission of sexually transmitted disease, "coming out," and sexual discrimination.



Section B.5, motion to amend:
5.   The course must teach the common indicators of breast cancer, prostate cancer, and testicular cancer, as well as how to check the body for irregularities that are common indicators.


Testicular cancer is a far greater risk to this age population, and can be detected much easier via self-examination.

Oh, and motion to strike Section D.4.  I'd gladly debate its merit as a separate bill, but it seems ill-placed in this one.

I move to amend the bill as follows (even though it will be viewed as unfriendly and be put to a vote):

Freedom of Conscience Amendment

Section B(1) shall be amended as follows:
1.  Except as provided in subsection B(6), completion of at least one semester of sexual health is required for all high school students in order to graduate.

A new Section B(6) shall be added:
6.  Before the beginning of the relevant semester, every school shall send a permission slip to parents or guardians of children who would otherwise be enrolled in sexual health class.  A parent or guardian shall be entitled to remove their child from all or any portion of a sexual health class, specifically including any portion of that class teaching methods of contraception, masturbation or homosexuality.   No school shall take any action against a student whose parent opts out of enrolling their child in all or any portion of a sexual health class, nor shall that student's grade, grade-point average, or ability to graduate be affected.

As I understand, you've deemed the proposed Teaching About Homosexualty and Freedom of Conscience amendments unfriendly.  What about the Proposed Amendment striking Section D.4?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 04:35:33 pm by cinyc »Logged
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« Reply #154 on: October 04, 2009, 11:07:13 pm »
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I apologize, but I simply cannot be up at 2:49 AM to bring the Amendments to the Safe Sex Education Bill. I will do so now, and since it appears there is no further debate, I do not believe it would block any Representative from sharing their opinions of the Bill.

Also, since Representative Hamilton has not confirmed which Amendments are friendly, and which are not, they shall all be brought to a vote:

Freedom of Conscience Amendment

Section B(1) shall be amended as follows:
1.  Except as provided in subsection B(6), completion of at least one semester of sexual health is required for all high school students in order to graduate.

A new Section B(6) shall be added:
6.  Before the beginning of the relevant semester, every school shall send a permission slip to parents or guardians of children who would otherwise be enrolled in sexual health class.  A parent or guardian shall be entitled to remove their child from all or any portion of a sexual health class, specifically including any portion of that class teaching methods of contraception, masturbation or homosexuality.   No school shall take any action against a student whose parent opts out of enrolling their child in all or any portion of a sexual health class, nor shall that student's grade, grade-point average, or ability to graduate be affected.

Spon: Rep. cinyc

Motion to strike section A, subsection 2 in its entirity.

Spon: Rep. Mr. Moderate

Motion to strike section A, subsection 3 in its entirity, and replace it with:
2. The requirements included in this act take effect with the school year starting September 2011.

Spon: Rep. Mr. Moderate

Motion to amend by insertion as Section B.6:
6. The course must address the issue of homosexuality and concerns specific to that portion of the student population, such as how same-sex partners can limit the risk of transmission of sexually transmitted disease, "coming out," and sexual discrimination.

Spon: Rep. Mr. Moderate

Section B.5, motion to amend:
5.   The course must teach the common indicators of breast cancer, prostate cancer, and testicular cancer, as well as how to check the body for irregularities that are common indicators.

Spon: Rep. Mr. Moderate
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please vote Aye, nay, or Abstain. Voting last twenty-four hours.
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« Reply #155 on: October 04, 2009, 11:35:47 pm »
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Before voting begins, please allow me to make one last plea for my Freedom of Conscience Amendment.

As many of you know, the Atlasian Supreme Court recently decided a controversial case called Peter v. Atlasia, striking down an Act that would have otherwise prohibited minors from attending places that try to make someone who thinks they are gay not be gay.  Justice Sam Spade struck down that Act in part because it "violate[d] a parentís fundamental right to direct the upbringing and education of his children in the manner he sees fit."

Without my amendment, the Safe Sex Education Bill suffers from a similar flaw and is Constitutionally suspect.  The Northeast Assembly's first act ought not to be to pass a constitutionally suspect law.

Thank you.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 11:50:29 pm by cinyc »Logged
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« Reply #156 on: October 04, 2009, 11:45:14 pm »
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Freedom of Conscience Amendment: Nay.



Motion to strike section A, subsection 2 in its entirity.: I believe this was accepted as friendly, but Aye, anyway.



Motion to strike section A, subsection 3 in its entirity, and replace it with: Again, this was accepted as friendly.  Aye.



Motion to amend by insertion as Section B.6:
6. The course must address the issue of homosexuality and concerns specific to that portion of the student population, such as how same-sex partners can limit the risk of transmission of sexually transmitted disease, "coming out," and sexual discrimination.


Aye.  Whether or not you agree that homosexuality is moral and acceptable, you have to realize that there currently are and always will be sexually active homosexual teens.  As such, it is crucial to provide information to this population regarding sexually transmitted diseases, especially considering that they are especially vulnerable to HIV transmission and are contracting the disease at a startlingly increasing rate.



Section B.5, motion to amend: Again, this was friendly.  Aye.
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« Reply #157 on: October 04, 2009, 11:51:03 pm »
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Curious bystander, what is the purpose of having a Speaker if the Lt. Governor is doing all the jobs of the Speaker?

Forgive me if I missed something, as I have been quite busy and haven't had the opportunity to look over the SOAP guidelines. Was the Speaker eliminated in favor of the President of the Assembly?
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« Reply #158 on: October 04, 2009, 11:52:33 pm »
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I apologize, but I simply cannot be up at 2:49 AM to bring the Amendments to the Safe Sex Education Bill. I will do so now, and since it appears there is no further debate, I do not believe it would block any Representative from sharing their opinions of the Bill.

Also, since Representative Hamilton has not confirmed which Amendments are friendly, and which are not, they shall all be brought to a vote:

Freedom of Conscience Amendment

Section B(1) shall be amended as follows:
1.  Except as provided in subsection B(6), completion of at least one semester of sexual health is required for all high school students in order to graduate.

A new Section B(6) shall be added:
6.  Before the beginning of the relevant semester, every school shall send a permission slip to parents or guardians of children who would otherwise be enrolled in sexual health class.  A parent or guardian shall be entitled to remove their child from all or any portion of a sexual health class, specifically including any portion of that class teaching methods of contraception, masturbation or homosexuality.   No school shall take any action against a student whose parent opts out of enrolling their child in all or any portion of a sexual health class, nor shall that student's grade, grade-point average, or ability to graduate be affected.

Spon: Rep. cinyc

Motion to strike section A, subsection 2 in its entirity.

Spon: Rep. Mr. Moderate

Motion to strike section A, subsection 3 in its entirity, and replace it with:
2. The requirements included in this act take effect with the school year starting September 2011.

Spon: Rep. Mr. Moderate

Motion to amend by insertion as Section B.6:
6. The course must address the issue of homosexuality and concerns specific to that portion of the student population, such as how same-sex partners can limit the risk of transmission of sexually transmitted disease, "coming out," and sexual discrimination.

Spon: Rep. Mr. Moderate

Section B.5, motion to amend:
5.   The course must teach the common indicators of breast cancer, prostate cancer, and testicular cancer, as well as how to check the body for irregularities that are common indicators.

Spon: Rep. Mr. Moderate
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please vote Aye, nay, or Abstain. Voting last twenty-four hours.


I think you missed the vote on the motion to strike Section D.4.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 11:56:16 pm by cinyc »Logged
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« Reply #159 on: October 04, 2009, 11:55:32 pm »
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Curious bystander, what is the purpose of having a Speaker if the Lt. Governor is doing all the jobs of the Speaker?

Forgive me if I missed something, as I have been quite busy and haven't had the opportunity to look over the SOAP guidelines. Was the Speaker eliminated in favor of the President of the Assembly?

The Lt. Governor usually presides over the Senate, but the Speaker takes over when the Lt. Governor publicly states he is unavailable.   

Presiding over the Senate (and casting tie votes) gives the Lt. Governor something to do.  His other Constitutional duties are fairly slim - pretty much just sitting around waiting for the Governor to resign.
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« Reply #160 on: October 04, 2009, 11:56:33 pm »
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Curious bystander, what is the purpose of having a Speaker if the Lt. Governor is doing all the jobs of the Speaker?

Forgive me if I missed something, as I have been quite busy and haven't had the opportunity to look over the SOAP guidelines. Was the Speaker eliminated in favor of the President of the Assembly?

The Lt. Governor usually presides over the Senate, but the Speaker takes over when the Lt. Governor publicly states he is unavailable.   

Presiding over the Senate (and casting tie votes) gives the Lt. Governor something to do.  His other Constitutional duties are fairly slim - pretty much just sitting around waiting for the Governor to resign.

Thanks for clearing that up and I agree with the rationale.
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« Reply #161 on: October 05, 2009, 12:05:57 am »
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Presiding over the Senate (and casting tie votes) gives the Lt. Governor something to do.  His other Constitutional duties are fairly slim - pretty much just sitting around waiting for the Governor to resign.

The logical solution would then be to abolish the Lieutenant Governorship.
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« Reply #162 on: October 05, 2009, 02:05:10 am »
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Freedom of Conscience Amendment: Aye.

Not including this amendment renders the bill unconstitutional.

Motion to strike section A, subsection 2 in its entirity.:
I believe this was accepted as friendly, Aye.

Motion to strike section A, subsection 3 in its entirity, and replace it:
I believe this was accepted as friendly, so Aye.

Had it not been, I would be voting nay.  2011 is too soon to be phasing a new curriculum requirement in and may harm current students' chances to take AP or other courses.  There's not enough time to plan.  Any new curriculum requirement should start with incoming freshmen who have not yet begun to plan their schedules and have yet to take any similar classes that suddenly don't count due to some newfangled regional mandate.

Motion to amend by insertion as Section B.6:
Nay.

Another thing that's controversial and best left to be taught at home.

Motion to amend Section B.5:
I believe this was accepted as friendly, Aye.

Motion to strike Section D.4:
Nay.
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« Reply #163 on: October 05, 2009, 03:04:18 am »
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I assume we're voting on amendments now, not debating amendments now?

Freedom of Conscience Amendment: Aye

Motion to strike section A, subsection 2: Aye

Motion to strike section A, subsection 2 and replace it with other words: Aye

Motion to amend Section B, with the insertion of subsection 6: Nay

Motion to amend Section B, subsection 5: Aye

Motion to remove Section D, subsection 4: Nay

Personally, I believe that Section D, subsection 4 should be included in whatever act presently legalises abortion, however in absense of an amending Act, I am satisfied with including it here. I would ideally like to see an Act to Amend both this Act and the Act legalising abortion to include this subsection in that Act and to remove it from this Act.
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« Reply #164 on: October 05, 2009, 06:17:49 am »
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Freedom of Conscience Amendment - Nay

Motion to strike section A, subsection 2 in its entirity - Aye

Motion to amend by insertion as Section B.6 - Aye

Section B.5, motion to amend - Aye

As a cosponsor and also on behalf of not-present Rep. Hamilton I can confirm, that, beside Freedom of Conscience Amendment, these are friendly amendment to the bill 
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« Reply #165 on: October 05, 2009, 08:11:18 am »
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Personally, I believe that Section D, subsection 4 should be included in whatever act presently legalises abortion, however in absense of an amending Act, I am satisfied with including it here. I would ideally like to see an Act to Amend both this Act and the Act legalising abortion to include this subsection in that Act and to remove it from this Act.

If we're going to discuss abortion in this bill, then I'm going to want to insert some stuff on parental notification.  Frankly, I strongly suggest it get removed and re-introduced as a separate bill, or we're going to get bogged down on this bill for quite some time.  It's going to prove to be a distraction.
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« Reply #166 on: October 05, 2009, 12:52:25 pm »
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Personally, I believe that Section D, subsection 4 should be included in whatever act presently legalises abortion, however in absense of an amending Act, I am satisfied with including it here. I would ideally like to see an Act to Amend both this Act and the Act legalising abortion to include this subsection in that Act and to remove it from this Act.

If we're going to discuss abortion in this bill, then I'm going to want to insert some stuff on parental notification.  Frankly, I strongly suggest it get removed and re-introduced as a separate bill, or we're going to get bogged down on this bill for quite some time.  It's going to prove to be a distraction.

We're not going to get bogged down on this bill for some time unless we amend the SOPA.  An up or down vote on the bill with all friendly and passed amendments is next.  There's no further opportunity for amendment.
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« Reply #167 on: October 05, 2009, 12:54:34 pm »
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We're not going to get bogged down on this bill for some time unless we amend the SOPA.  An up or down vote on the bill with all friendly and passed amendments is next.  There's no further opportunity for amendment.

Oh.  All the more reason to drop that section, then.
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« Reply #168 on: October 05, 2009, 03:02:29 pm »
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Before voting begins, please allow me to make one last plea for my Freedom of Conscience Amendment.

As many of you know, the Atlasian Supreme Court recently decided a controversial case called Peter v. Atlasia, striking down an Act that would have otherwise prohibited minors from attending places that try to make someone who thinks they are gay not be gay.  Justice Sam Spade struck down that Act in part because it "violate[d] a parentís fundamental right to direct the upbringing and education of his children in the manner he sees fit."

Without my amendment, the Safe Sex Education Bill suffers from a similar flaw and is Constitutionally suspect.  The Northeast Assembly's first act ought not to be to pass a constitutionally suspect law.

Thank you.

For what it's worth, I'd be willing to defend this one in front of any court.

Parents do have some level of direction in choosing what their children are taught, it's true.  But this is expressed through representative government and laws passed by this legislature.  Parents do not have a fundamental right to refuse their child be taught math, or to refuse their child participate in a history class on World War I.

It's the legislature that designs core curricula for students.  This sexual education proposal is a new addition to that core curriculum.

In Peter v. Atlasia, you have a question of religious freedom.  Though I disagree with the ruling, you can see how the court attempted to extend "trying to make your child not be gay" as a religious "freedom."

The classroom is not teaching or preaching morality, nor is it preventing it from being taught elsewhere.  It is not saying that students should engage in sex (indeed, it says that abstinence is the only way to guarantee protection from pregnancy and disease).  It says that all students are required to obtain a basic level of knowledge in the realm of public health for the good of the whole.  To the best of my knowledge, there is no religion that says that boys and girls do not have sexual organs, there is no religion that disputes the mechanical workings of different birth control methods, there is no religion that states that gays simply do not exist.  It is a fact-based, not morality-based class.

Frankly, "religion" is used in this debate only as an excuse to mask adults being uncomfortable with someone talking to their kids about sex.  It's understandable that parents want some level of control in this arena, but we're talking about post-puberty kids here.  If their parents don't want to take this on, it does everyone a disservice in the form of higher rates of disease transmission and unwanted pregnancies.  You don't need a study to tell you that kids eventually figure out what goes where even if schools and parents stay silent.
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« Reply #169 on: October 05, 2009, 08:54:36 pm »
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So far, only Representatives Hamilton and Antonio V have yet to vote on the Amendments. Voting lasts until 12:00 tonight.
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« Reply #170 on: October 05, 2009, 10:27:32 pm »
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All non votes are counted as nay?  What planet is this?
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« Reply #171 on: October 05, 2009, 10:31:03 pm »
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All non votes are counted as nay?  What planet is this?

Oh My GOD! I misread the SOAP! I apologize to the Assembly for lack of intelligence on my part. I shall delete the Bill and re tabulate the Amendment votes.
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« Reply #172 on: October 05, 2009, 11:01:55 pm »
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I apologize, but I simply cannot be up at 2:49 AM to bring the Amendments to the Safe Sex Education Bill. I will do so now, and since it appears there is no further debate, I do not believe it would block any Representative from sharing their opinions of the Bill.

Also, since Representative Hamilton has not confirmed which Amendments are friendly, and which are not, they shall all be brought to a vote:

Freedom of Conscience Amendment

Section B(1) shall be amended as follows:
1.  Except as provided in subsection B(6), completion of at least one semester of sexual health is required for all high school students in order to graduate.

A new Section B(6) shall be added:
6.  Before the beginning of the relevant semester, every school shall send a permission slip to parents or guardians of children who would otherwise be enrolled in sexual health class.  A parent or guardian shall be entitled to remove their child from all or any portion of a sexual health class, specifically including any portion of that class teaching methods of contraception, masturbation or homosexuality.   No school shall take any action against a student whose parent opts out of enrolling their child in all or any portion of a sexual health class, nor shall that student's grade, grade-point average, or ability to graduate be affected.

Spon: Rep. cinyc              NAY
 
Motion to strike section A, subsection 2 in its entirity.

Spon: Rep. Mr. Moderate                 AYE

Motion to strike section A, subsection 3 in its entirity, and replace it with:
2. The requirements included in this act take effect with the school year starting September 2011.

Spon: Rep. Mr. Moderate             NAY

Motion to amend by insertion as Section B.6:
6. The course must address the issue of homosexuality and concerns specific to that portion of the student population, such as how same-sex partners can limit the risk of transmission of sexually transmitted disease, "coming out," and sexual discrimination.

Spon: Rep. Mr. Moderate                  NAY

Section B.5, motion to amend:
5.   The course must teach the common indicators of breast cancer, prostate cancer, and testicular cancer, as well as how to check the body for irregularities that are common indicators.

Spon: Rep. Mr. Moderate                   AYE
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please vote Aye, nay, or Abstain. Voting last twenty-four hours.

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« Reply #173 on: October 05, 2009, 11:01:56 pm »
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AYE
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« Reply #174 on: October 05, 2009, 11:03:18 pm »
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All non votes are counted as nay?  What planet is this?

That's only true for extraordinary motions waiving the SOAP, like those asking for less debate time, a shorter voting period or taking up multiple bills on the floor simultaneously (basically, to make sure that an outright majority of the Assembly consent to things that could disenfranchise members who might not be around every waking hour of the day).  Otherwise, abstentions should be treated as abstentions - i.e. non-votes.
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