Arresting a granny for cold medicine???
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« on: September 28, 2009, 02:36:00 PM »

Wabash Valley woman didn’t realize second cold medicine purchase violated drug laws
By Lisa Trigg
The Tribune-Star


CLINTON September 03, 2009 10:58 pm

— When Sally Harpold bought cold medicine for her family back in March, she never dreamed that four months later she would end up in handcuffs.
Now, Harpold is trying to clear her name of criminal charges, and she is speaking out in hopes that a law will change so others won’t endure the same embarrassment she still is facing.
“This is a very traumatic experience,” Harpold said.
Harpold is a grandmother of triplets who bought one box of Zyrtec-D cold medicine for her husband at a Rockville pharmacy. Less than seven days later, she bought a box of Mucinex-D cold medicine for her adult daughter at a Clinton pharmacy, thereby purchasing 3.6 grams total of pseudoephedrine in a week’s time.
Those two purchases put her in violation of Indiana law 35-48-4-14.7, which restricts the sale of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine, or PSE, products to no more than 3.0 grams within any seven-day period.
When the police came knocking at the door of Harpold’s Parke County residence on July 30, she was arrested on a Vermillion County warrant for a class-C misdemeanor, which carries a sentence of up to 60 days in jail and up to a $500 fine. But through a deferral program offered by Vermillion County Prosecutor Nina Alexander, the charge could be wiped from Harpold’s record by mid-September.
Harpold’s story is one that concerns some law-abiding citizens who fear that innocent people will get mistakenly caught in the net of meth abuse roundups.
But the flip side of the story comes from the law enforcement arena, which is battling a resurgence in methamphetamine production in the Wabash Valley.
As the 12th-smallest county in the state, Vermillion County ranked as the state’s fifth-largest producer of methamphetamine just a few years ago.
“I don’t want to go there again,” Alexander told the Tribune-Star, recalling how the manufacture and abuse of methamphetamine ravaged the tiny county and its families.
While the law was written with the intent of stopping people from purchasing large quantities of drugs to make methamphetamine, the law does not say the purchase must be made with the intent to make meth.
“The law does not make this distinction,” Alexander said.
If the law said “with intent to manufacture methamphetamine,” no one could be arrested until it was proven that the drug actually was used to make meth, the prosecutor said.
And that certainly wasn’t the intent of the law, either. It was written to limit access to the key ingredient in meth — pseudoephedrine — and thereby to stop the clandestine “mom and pop” meth labs that were cooking drugs throughout the area.
Just as with any law, the public has the responsibility to know what is legal and what is not, and ignorance of the law is no excuse, the prosecutor said.
“I’m simply enforcing the law as it was written,” Alexander said.
Pharmacies post “Meth Watch” signs, alerting customers that their purchases of drugs containing ephedrine and pseudoephedrine are being monitored. Pharmacies also are required to submit a list of purchase records to police, who then examine the lists for violations of the law.
It is up to customers to pay attention to their purchase amounts, and to check medication labels, Alexander said.
“If you take these products, you ought to know what’s in them,” she said.
While many people know that Sudafed, Actifed and Claritin-D contain pseudoephedrine, there are many more over-the-counter medications that also contain the key meth ingredient.
Ron Vencel, a pharmacist with JR Pharmacies in Terre Haute, said consumers should check all drug labels, and notes that any drug that has a “D” after it, for “decongestant,” has a likelihood of containing pseudoephedrine, or PSE.
Vencel has worked with area police to help curb the sale of over-the-counter pseudoephedrine to people buying it as a meth ingredient, and he offered insight into some of the purchasers.
As authorities and retailers have limited the sale of PSE, some meth-makers have resorted to asking their relatives and friends, who are unaware of the intended use of the product, to go buy the cold medicine. That has put some innocent people unwittingly into the cycle of meth production. And a buyer may call five or six different people to go buy the cold medicine, thereby circumventing the law.
Harpold, who is employed at the Rockville Correctional Facility for women, feels her reputation has been damaged by the arrest, and that she has been wrongly labeled as someone who makes meth.
Her police mug shot ran on the front page of her local newspaper, she wrote, in a letter to the Tribune-Star, “with an article entitled, ‘17 Arrested in Drug Sweep.’”
“That is something I have never been involved in,” she said of meth.
When she told her co-workers about the arrest, she said, they could not believe it. They have been supportive of her, she said, and other friends in the community have tried to help stop the misinformation that has spread because of the arrest.
The morning she was arrested, Harpold and her husband were awakened by police officers banging on the front door of their home at Midway along U.S. 36. She was allowed to get dressed, and was then taken in handcuffs to the Clinton Police Department, where she was questioned about her cold medicine purchases. She was later booked into jail, and her husband had to pay $300 bail to get her released.
Harpold said she did go talk to the prosecutor about the situation, and Alexander offered her the deferral program, in which Harpold is required to pay the court costs, abide by all laws and not be arrested for 30 days. At the end of 30 days, the class-C misdemeanor will be erased from her record.
Alexander said she is working with Harpold about the charge, but the prosecutor asserts that Harpold did break the law with her purchases and is being held accountable.
“I do want people to know that we will check the pharmacy records and we will prosecute people who violate this law,” Alexander said.
Vermillion County Sheriff Bob Spence said he also is willing to help Harpold overcome the negative situation.
“If there’s any way we can help her, we will,” Spence said.
He explained that the process leading to Harpold’s arrest involved an officer checking area pharmacy purchase records, and coming up with about 40 purchases that violated the law.
That information was then taken to the prosecutor, whose staff drew up the probable cause affidavits to be filed in court. A judge then found probable cause and issued arrest warrants, and the sheriff’s department is required by statute to see that the warrants are served.
Harpold was not arrested by Vermillion County officers, Spence stressed, since her residence is in Parke County. But she was returned to Clinton where she was questioned and processed.
Spence agreed with pharmacist Vencel’s scenario that the people making the meth often send other people to buy the medicine. And Vigo County Sheriff Jon Marvel, who recently renewed efforts to track pseudoephedrine sales in the Wabash Valley, understands Harpold’s arrest is embarrassing for her.
“Sometimes mistakes happen,” Marvel said. “It’s unfortunate. But for the good of everyone, the law was put into effect.
“I feel for her, but if she could go to one of the area hospitals and see a baby born to a meth-addicted mother …”
For now, Harpold is hoping to raise public awareness so others will avoid the stress she is going through. She has written to state lawmakers and to U.S. Sens. Richard Lugar and Evan Bayh and Congressman Brad Ellsworth about changing the law.
So far, only Lugar has responded to her letter, she said, but she will continue to pursue the issue.
“I just don’t want this to happen to other people.”


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ChrisJG777
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« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2009, 02:42:35 PM »

What's wrong with simply sending her a letter and advising her to be more careful in future?  Tongue
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Mechaman
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« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2009, 02:53:15 PM »

What's wrong with simply letting people buy cold medicine?

This is the price you pay, Drug Warriors, by continuing this failure of a Drug War.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2009, 02:54:21 PM »

What's wrong with simply sending her a letter and advising her to be more careful in future?  Tongue

Chris, how dare you expect common sense to carry the day in matters as important as this.  Tongue
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ChrisJG777
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« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2009, 03:31:26 PM »

What's wrong with simply sending her a letter and advising her to be more careful in future?  Tongue

Chris, how dare you expect common sense to carry the day in matters as important as this.  Tongue

I know, I'm utterly ashamed of myself for such a heinous infraction.  Tongue
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opebo
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« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2009, 03:44:14 PM »

The Bad Place.  If you are there, try to remember where you are - this poor woman had no idea, the fatheaded rural.
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« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2009, 04:17:00 PM »

These laws are pretty damn retarded.
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snowguy716
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« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2009, 04:22:31 PM »

What's wrong with simply letting people buy cold medicine?

This is the price you pay, Drug Warriors, by continuing this failure of a Drug War.

There can be middle ground.  Here you have to fill in your name, ID, etc.  And you can only buy two packages.  I don't know about how spread out your purchases must be or anything... but they can figure it out if there is a trend of constant purchases.

The restricted sale of these drugs has made a huge impact on combating Meth.  I am no fan of the drug war and I think we need to scale it back.  But slightly restricting the sale of Sudafed to two packages in one visit is hardly something to complain about... especially with the positive effects it has had.

Still, what they did to the lady in Indiana is ridiculous.  I agree... they simply could have sent a letter reminding her of the law and that next time there would be consequences.
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BRTD
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2009, 04:29:59 PM »

The prosecutor could've also elected not to press charges. There is such a thing as prosecutorial discretion after all. Who benefits from tying up the courts with someone who obviously had no intention of producing meth?
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Mechaman
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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2009, 05:03:31 PM »

What's wrong with simply letting people buy cold medicine?

This is the price you pay, Drug Warriors, by continuing this failure of a Drug War.

There can be middle ground.  Here you have to fill in your name, ID, etc.  And you can only buy two packages.  I don't know about how spread out your purchases must be or anything... but they can figure it out if there is a trend of constant purchases.

The restricted sale of these drugs has made a huge impact on combating Meth.  I am no fan of the drug war and I think we need to scale it back.  But slightly restricting the sale of Sudafed to two packages in one visit is hardly something to complain about... especially with the positive effects it has had.

Still, what they did to the lady in Indiana is ridiculous.  I agree... they simply could have sent a letter reminding her of the law and that next time there would be consequences.

Restricting freedom is a positive effect?
Sorry for being an uber hack, but the whole War on Drugs sounds like pure nanny statism.
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snowguy716
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« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2009, 05:06:00 PM »

What's wrong with simply letting people buy cold medicine?

This is the price you pay, Drug Warriors, by continuing this failure of a Drug War.

There can be middle ground.  Here you have to fill in your name, ID, etc.  And you can only buy two packages.  I don't know about how spread out your purchases must be or anything... but they can figure it out if there is a trend of constant purchases.

The restricted sale of these drugs has made a huge impact on combating Meth.  I am no fan of the drug war and I think we need to scale it back.  But slightly restricting the sale of Sudafed to two packages in one visit is hardly something to complain about... especially with the positive effects it has had.

Still, what they did to the lady in Indiana is ridiculous.  I agree... they simply could have sent a letter reminding her of the law and that next time there would be consequences.

Restricting freedom is a positive effect?
Sorry for being an uber hack, but the whole War on Drugs sounds like pure nanny statism.

Well, I'd agree.. except Meth really is destroying communities... it is probably the most harmful drug out there.

The government has done nothing to restrict you from easing the symptoms of a cold.  The only reason you would ever buy more than the legal limit, at least here, is if you were stockpiling or cooking meth.
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Alcon
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« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2009, 05:51:04 PM »

These laws may look stupid on paper, but they do seem to cut local meth production impressively.
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« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2009, 06:03:00 PM »

These laws may look stupid on paper, but they do seem to cut local meth production impressively.

Doesn't matter. People ought to be allowed to produce and consume meth at their own discretion.
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Alcon
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« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2009, 06:43:01 PM »

These laws may look stupid on paper, but they do seem to cut local meth production impressively.

Doesn't matter. People ought to be allowed to produce and consume meth at their own discretion.

Including in ways that may blow up innocents, destroy property or risk the results of meth psychosis?
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« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2009, 06:45:36 PM »

These laws may look stupid on paper, but they do seem to cut local meth production impressively.

Doesn't matter. People ought to be allowed to produce and consume meth at their own discretion.

Including in ways that may blow up innocents, destroy property or risk the results of meth psychosis?

Yes.
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Alcon
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« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2009, 06:49:48 PM »

These laws may look stupid on paper, but they do seem to cut local meth production impressively.

Doesn't matter. People ought to be allowed to produce and consume meth at their own discretion.

Including in ways that may blow up innocents, destroy property or risk the results of meth psychosis?

Yes.

I tend to value personal autonomy in the form of not being blown up, and support enacting that into law to some degree, so I'm going to have to not concur.  If you have any philosophical argument here, I'd be interested in hearing it.  If you're going to be all dumb and just stop ignoring someone once they challenge you on formal grounds, I'm going to have to ask that you be dumb in a way that doesn't involve quoting my posts.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2009, 07:16:15 PM »

Alcon......I think you'll agree Granny doesn't deserve all this.....right?
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Mechaman
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« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2009, 07:49:00 PM »

These laws may look stupid on paper, but they do seem to cut local meth production impressively.

Doesn't matter. People ought to be allowed to produce and consume meth at their own discretion.

Including in ways that may blow up innocents, destroy property or risk the results of meth psychosis?

Like the Drug Warriors haven't already managed to do the first two by waging their blue blooded war on people.
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snowguy716
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« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2009, 08:09:22 PM »

Alcon, Einzige is a "me first libertarian"... he only cares about HIS rights... not yours.  If he blows up his house and it kills you, that's your problem, not his.

It's actually quite immature... like "I'm not gonna share my toys with you because I'm 3 and I just found out I am an individual"...
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BRTD
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« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2009, 08:12:03 PM »

What's wrong with simply letting people buy cold medicine?

This is the price you pay, Drug Warriors, by continuing this failure of a Drug War.

There can be middle ground.  Here you have to fill in your name, ID, etc.  And you can only buy two packages.  I don't know about how spread out your purchases must be or anything... but they can figure it out if there is a trend of constant purchases.

The restricted sale of these drugs has made a huge impact on combating Meth.  I am no fan of the drug war and I think we need to scale it back.  But slightly restricting the sale of Sudafed to two packages in one visit is hardly something to complain about... especially with the positive effects it has had.

Still, what they did to the lady in Indiana is ridiculous.  I agree... they simply could have sent a letter reminding her of the law and that next time there would be consequences.

Restricting freedom is a positive effect?
Sorry for being an uber hack, but the whole War on Drugs sounds like pure nanny statism.

Well, I'd agree.. except Meth really is destroying communities... it is probably the most harmful drug out there.

The government has done nothing to restrict you from easing the symptoms of a cold.  The only reason you would ever buy more than the legal limit, at least here, is if you were stockpiling or cooking meth.

Was this lady trying to produce meth?

These laws may look stupid on paper, but they do seem to cut local meth production impressively.

Same thing. Was this lady trying to produce meth?
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snowguy716
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« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2009, 08:41:00 PM »

What's wrong with simply letting people buy cold medicine?

This is the price you pay, Drug Warriors, by continuing this failure of a Drug War.

There can be middle ground.  Here you have to fill in your name, ID, etc.  And you can only buy two packages.  I don't know about how spread out your purchases must be or anything... but they can figure it out if there is a trend of constant purchases.

The restricted sale of these drugs has made a huge impact on combating Meth.  I am no fan of the drug war and I think we need to scale it back.  But slightly restricting the sale of Sudafed to two packages in one visit is hardly something to complain about... especially with the positive effects it has had.

Still, what they did to the lady in Indiana is ridiculous.  I agree... they simply could have sent a letter reminding her of the law and that next time there would be consequences.

Restricting freedom is a positive effect?
Sorry for being an uber hack, but the whole War on Drugs sounds like pure nanny statism.

Well, I'd agree.. except Meth really is destroying communities... it is probably the most harmful drug out there.

The government has done nothing to restrict you from easing the symptoms of a cold.  The only reason you would ever buy more than the legal limit, at least here, is if you were stockpiling or cooking meth.

Was this lady trying to produce meth?

These laws may look stupid on paper, but they do seem to cut local meth production impressively.

Same thing. Was this lady trying to produce meth?

No.  She wasn't.  And I never argued that the law in Indiana made sense or was really fair in any way.  If you read my first post, you'll see that.

My point is that we should limit the amount of sudafed you can purchase in order to combat meth production.  My argument is about semantics.  We can both fight meth production and provide cold relief rather easily.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2009, 08:42:50 PM »

These laws may look stupid on paper, but they do seem to cut local meth production impressively.

Doesn't matter. People ought to be allowed to produce and consume meth at their own discretion.

Including in ways that may blow up innocents, destroy property or risk the results of meth psychosis?

Yes.

I tend to value personal autonomy in the form of not being blown up, and support enacting that into law to some degree, so I'm going to have to not concur.  If you have any philosophical argument here, I'd be interested in hearing it.  If you're going to be all dumb and just stop ignoring someone once they challenge you on formal grounds, I'm going to have to ask that you be dumb in a way that doesn't involve quoting my posts.

make methamphetamine legal/cheap/regulated and the first half of your problem becomes a zero
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snowguy716
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« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2009, 08:46:40 PM »

These laws may look stupid on paper, but they do seem to cut local meth production impressively.

Doesn't matter. People ought to be allowed to produce and consume meth at their own discretion.

Including in ways that may blow up innocents, destroy property or risk the results of meth psychosis?

Yes.

I tend to value personal autonomy in the form of not being blown up, and support enacting that into law to some degree, so I'm going to have to not concur.  If you have any philosophical argument here, I'd be interested in hearing it.  If you're going to be all dumb and just stop ignoring someone once they challenge you on formal grounds, I'm going to have to ask that you be dumb in a way that doesn't involve quoting my posts.

make methamphetamine legal/cheap/regulated and the first half of your problem becomes a zero

Do you have any idea what meth does to people?  From that post, I'll assume no.  Both my brother and sister have been addicted to meth... and let me just say it will tear your family apart.  Luckily my sister nipped it in the bud and sought treatment early on.. but it caused my brother a lot of problems, including a horrific trip to Nebraska for my grandpa's funeral which was also the first time I ever drove a car at age 15... but it's a very long story.

We'll just say that while I support the legalization of some drugs with heavy regulation, meth is *NOT* one of them.  Meth is an extremely dangerous and extremely addictive drug that wreaks terrible havoc on your body and mind unlike almost any other drug.

To support legalization of it on principle is either shortsighted or idiotic.

There are plenty of other drugs that could be legalized and seen as better alternatives than Meth.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2009, 09:56:56 PM »

..and the prohibition of the product worked wonders for your family, didn't it

telling me the drug is bad is not an argument
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BRTD
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« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2009, 10:21:17 PM »

Look, meth isn't an issue I'm socially libertarian on. It's most certainly not a victimless crime, or even one where the only victims are the users, not with dangerous meth labs out in some places or incidents of people being robbed by junkies strung out or needing money for a fix.

But laws like this one don't fix things. They just hurt more innocents like the woman in question and inconvenience people having nothing to do with it. Nor are they huge deterrents to manufacturers. What's to stop someone from hanging outside of a Target and offering anyone going in $5 + the cost to anyone who picks up some cough syrup for them?

If you want to track such sales, have the police look for suspicious patterns...that could be argued for, it's at least more logical. But something like this is just plain idiotic.
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