Should military 'black budgeting' be legal?
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  Should military 'black budgeting' be legal?
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Author Topic: Should military 'black budgeting' be legal?  (Read 1187 times)
Scam of God
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Junior Chimp
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« on: October 05, 2009, 04:18:12 AM »

Absolutely not. Every year billions of dollars of taxpayer money is poured down into a morass of secretive military projects whose cost can be estimated only by looking at the total defense budget and surmising what remains after the known quantities are accounted for. There is nothing the military needs that cannot be produced in a democratic fashion, but the military insists on an un-and-anti-democratic course of action to procure for itself technology at our expense.

The military ought to be required to publish a yearly list of all of its expenditures before its budget is renewed. It must be made accountable to the taxpayer. 
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2009, 08:35:11 AM »

I agree.  I'm sure it can be done without giving away any state secrets.
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dead0man
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« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2009, 09:05:17 AM »

I agree.  I'm sure it can be done without giving away any state secrets.
It could be, but people that hate the military would make sure we couldn't.
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Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl
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« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2009, 12:03:36 PM »

Of course not, but nobody is going to challenge the people who possess all the high-tech guns the stolen tax dollars paid for.
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snowguy716
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« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2009, 01:20:11 PM »

No, it should not be legal.  With all the smart people we have running our defense department, there is surely *something* they can come up with that is both believable and maintains important state secrets.

They better be glad I'm not in charge.  Anything not explained adequately would be channeled into something more worthy... like... you know... the million other things in this country that are desperately lacking in funding that actually make a big difference in peoples' lives.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2009, 01:41:40 PM »

Well, no, obviously... but it's such a laughably corrupt setup that I almost take the other view out of amusement...
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John Dibble
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« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2009, 04:43:56 PM »

Maybe not, but if they didn't do that they'd just say they are spending it on X when they are really spending it on Y.
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« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2009, 04:45:59 PM »

I agree.  I'm sure it can be done without giving away any state secrets.
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snowguy716
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« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2009, 05:10:09 PM »

Maybe not, but if they didn't do that they'd just say they are spending it on X when they are really spending it on Y.

Unless congress just decided that wasn't good enough and withdrew the funding.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2009, 07:38:06 PM »

Maybe not, but if they didn't do that they'd just say they are spending it on X when they are really spending it on Y.

Unless congress just decided that wasn't good enough and withdrew the funding.

Which would only happen if enough of Congress would pay attention and care long enough to put their pet pork projects and whatever the issue du jour the the proles are clamoring about aside to even notice which projects are just fronts to fund other projects. Even then at best you might expect is that they'd form a committee to investigate it, and then the matter would likely be forgotten shortly after.
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Scam of God
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2009, 07:51:18 PM »

I agree.  I'm sure it can be done without giving away any state secrets.
It could be, but people that hate the military would make sure we couldn't.

Quite simply: the State oughtn't be permitted to keep secrets from its populace.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2009, 07:54:06 PM »

I agree.  I'm sure it can be done without giving away any state secrets.
It could be, but people that hate the military would make sure we couldn't.

Quite simply: the State oughtn't be permitted to keep secrets from its populace.

I think that opinion is too broad.
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Scam of God
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2009, 07:56:48 PM »

I agree.  I'm sure it can be done without giving away any state secrets.
It could be, but people that hate the military would make sure we couldn't.

Quite simply: the State oughtn't be permitted to keep secrets from its populace.

I think that opinion is too broad.

Why's that? As I see it: if the State isn't doing anything that by rights ought to inflame its citizenry, then it ought to tell everything it's doing. And if it is doing something upsetting, then it shouldn't be doing it.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2009, 09:39:11 PM »

I agree.  I'm sure it can be done without giving away any state secrets.
It could be, but people that hate the military would make sure we couldn't.

Quite simply: the State oughtn't be permitted to keep secrets from its populace.

I think that opinion is too broad.

Why's that? As I see it: if the State isn't doing anything that by rights ought to inflame its citizenry, then it ought to tell everything it's doing. And if it is doing something upsetting, then it shouldn't be doing it.

Well, if the state has to tell it's citizens everything it's doing, then it couldn't perform a secret military operation during wartime which could be essential to victory. It couldn't have spies in foreign countries either, because if who our spies are is not secret then they couldn't do their job. There are a variety of other conceivable scenarios in which there would be an interest in keeping a secret that would benefit the nation.

In an ideal world everything would be transparent, but unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world. (not that we couldn't use some more transparency from our current government)
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Scam of God
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2009, 04:37:28 AM »

I agree.  I'm sure it can be done without giving away any state secrets.
It could be, but people that hate the military would make sure we couldn't.

Quite simply: the State oughtn't be permitted to keep secrets from its populace.

I think that opinion is too broad.

Why's that? As I see it: if the State isn't doing anything that by rights ought to inflame its citizenry, then it ought to tell everything it's doing. And if it is doing something upsetting, then it shouldn't be doing it.

Well, if the state has to tell it's citizens everything it's doing, then it couldn't perform a secret military operation during wartime which could be essential to victory. It couldn't have spies in foreign countries either, because if who our spies are is not secret then they couldn't do their job. There are a variety of other conceivable scenarios in which there would be an interest in keeping a secret that would benefit the nation.

In an ideal world everything would be transparent, but unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world. (not that we couldn't use some more transparency from our current government)

Then let there be exemptions from a ban on black budgeting during a time for war - a declared war, and not those "permanent police actions" our hawks are so fond of using as an excuse to wave their cocks in the air at the Capitol; needless to say, any "police action" would need to be fully green funded by the Congress.

As for spies? Keep their names and occupations secret, make their existence a matter of public record.
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