Individual liberties in poor/developing countries with weak states.

[Jacobtm]

Counting myself, many people on this board argue for a state which does less; regulates less, has less power, collects fewer taxes, leaves people to their own devices, etc.

I'm currently living in Mexico studying, and in many ways the Mexican state behaves in a way that would be interpreted as very "libertarian" if it weren't for the fact that it simply doesn't have the means to do ABC-XYZ.

Roads and sidewalks are kept in a terrible situation. A broken sidewalk which leaves the sewage or drainage system exposed can stay that way for weeks or months. Private roads, such as in residential communities and personal driveways, are common and commonly kept in terrible shape.

Taxis aren't regulated the same way they are in the US. In fact, I can't imagine they're regulated at all, since many don't have functioning speedometers, and almost none have functioning seatbelts in the back seats. Clearly, they're also much cheaper than taxis in the USA, something like $3 US is reasonable for a 10-15 minute ride.

The police aren't very reliable, though legally obtaining a gun to protect yourself is a big hassle down here. Obviously, crimes like robberies etc. are much more common down here, cause the police have bigger problems to worry about.

The water.

Public schools are poorly funded, and of course you have private schools down here which are actually affordable, many of which start teaching kids English from the age of 3 or 5. There are some great public Universities, which are more or less free I gather, but it seems that before that level anyone with disposable income sends their kids to private schools.

Nearly everything is much cheaper, the exception being legitimate electronics. Food, clothes, housing, cars and all that stuff is very cheap by US standards. I don't know what professional wages look like in comparison to price levels, that is, if a doctor/businessman in Mexico is relatively richer or poorer than one in the USA.

So if one is truly concerned about personal freedom, and truly concerned that the state plays too active a role in individuals' lives, is there a good reason that one wouldn't move to a country like Mexico? Maybe you don't care for Spanish, or Mexican food, but there are plenty of countries that are free and democratic with states that are severely limited in their abilities, which to me would seem like the logical choice for anyone truly and deeply concerned about liberty etc.

[Free Palestine]

Mexico is a sh**thole because the government is corrupt, not because it's a libertarian paradise.

[SPC]

Mexico is a sh**thole because the government is corrupt, not because it's a libertarian paradise.

[Jacobtm]

Mexico isn't a "sh**thole"; it's certainly far more developed and civilized than many countries out there.

Drinking water isn't free, but then, in the USA how many people pay for water filters/bottled water etc. before they drink their water anyway?

Taxis don't have strict regulations, and accordingly, a normal person might actually consider using a combination of busses, taxis and walking to get places instead of buying their own car.

Alot of the people here really show a stronger spirit to make their own way than you see in the US, because they don't have as much to fall back on here. The amount of people who get by just selling random trinkets/food on the street is staggering, yet in a country where you can easily eat a good lunch for $3, it doesn't take much to get by.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Another reason why I hate libertarianism (Reason #5487): First World Snobbery.

[Хahar 🤔]

Mexico is a sh**thole?

Where have you folks been in your life?

[SPC]

Mexico is a sh**thole?

Where have you folks been in your life?

Puerto Vallarta and Mazatlan. Cabo San Lucas was nice, though, although even there the water was full of garbage.

[titaniumtux]

Mexico is certainly an interesting country. The lack of enforced regulations means it's quite the playground for Libertarians, but it's certainly corrupt.

I lived in Monterry, Nuevo León for about four months, studying at the ITESM (Tec Monterrey, commonly known as the Mexican MIT). I speak fluent Spanish (I was fluent even before I studied there). I wouldn't want to live the greater part of my life in Latin America. It's an awesome travel destination, but to live there is just not worth my while. Here's the breakdown:

Pro's:
- You can buy your way through pretty much anything
- You don't have to care about intellectual property rights
- The locals are very friendly
- Service is cheap
- If you're in a fortunate situation, you can easily avoid income tax (if you're American, this is really difficult, because you don't really have the option of renouncing residency to stop paying income tax unless you renounce citizenship)

Cons:
- Housing is terrible. Either you pay good money and get a castle, or you end up in a neighborhood with terrible sidewalks. Your property line will be surrounded by a combination of house walls and/or fences, so no "open space". Their fences are ugly, too (for the most part, IMHO)
- Unless you're in Bolivia or Paraguay, electronics are ridiculously expensive. Bolivia, Paraguay, Venezuela and half of Central America have such a low standard of living (imagine...you can't take the highway at night because there are no lights in some of these countries) that you have to pay up to North American prices just to get comfort. Cars are also really expensive unless you buy one that was previously stolen
- Nationalism. You can't export jobs because they're afraid of losing their jobs (many Mexican companies move to the US just so that they can export labor to the lowest bidder more easily)

If I were to be an expat in Latin America in the country of my choice, I'd probably pick Ecuador or Brazil, but even then...the bureaucracy is so ridiculous and disposable income certainly isn't better than in North America. Your best bet is to treat Latin America like a playground/vacation destination unless you find a really good job down there.

[Хahar 🤔]

Mexico is a sh**thole?

Where have you folks been in your life?

Puerto Vallarta and Mazatlan. Cabo San Lucas was nice, though, although even there the water was full of garbage.

Something about this is deeply unsurprising.

[Jacobtm]

Mexico is a sh**thole?

Where have you folks been in your life?

Cuernavaca mostly, a little bit of Mexico City and Oaxaca. I've also lived in Binghamton, NY, which is hardly much nicer than Cuernavaca. I was raised in Westchester County, NY in a suburb where everything is ridiculously expensive and you can't do anything without bankrupting yourself.

[SPC]

Mexico is a sh**thole?

Where have you folks been in your life?

Puerto Vallarta and Mazatlan. Cabo San Lucas was nice, though, although even there the water was full of garbage.

Something about this is deeply unsurprising.

To be fair, it was about the same as parts of Los Angeles.

[Free Palestine]

An ideal libertarian society is one where the people come together and create a government representative of them.  A country where drug cartels rule indirectly, and where corrupt politicians rule, is not a libertarian society.