Rumours!

[Swedish Cheese]

Reading this thread is like watching a car crash. It's bloody and messy, and you just want to turn your face away, but you just can tear your eyes from it all.

I have to go to school though. How unfortunate.

[Vasall des Midas]

This game isn't worth all this sweat and blood. Time to rethink my involvement in "Atlasia" once again. Perhaps it has gotten too intense.

You'd be surpised how many other election 'games' we've tried to start that never get off the ground They are obviously missing something Atlasia does not.

They didn't come first and occupy central place in the public imagination. They never stood a chance.

[Vasall des Midas]

DWDL/Xahar! (lol)

What is this - a description of Hamilton?

[Vasall des Midas]

It was me who gave Marokai the information.

You did the right thing. Thank you Sewer Socialist.

There are people in the JCP I would have gone to first, actually.

Mostly because this way, it wasn't clear to me that Maro's information came from the LNF itself, making the jungle appear even thicker.
So I'm glad that's cleared up.

[Χahar]

Was there some deleted post about me?

I am happy to come clean about anything I may have said in our discussion. I think it may have been about PiT promising to keep me on as SoFA if he wins. I am obviously going to vote for someone who wants to keep me on a SoFA, it is one of my bigger issues. There was some rumours that had he won the last election, I would've been toast.

Are you serious?

Good lord, the LNF can't hold my respect for more than five minutes it seems.

I don't appreciate the fact that you basically lied in your original post here, talking about how I was spreading "vicious rumors" that you apparently knew were true right from the get-go. I don't care what sort of spin you put on it, you knew what I was referring to, you simply tried to come out and made me look like a crazy person or something.

I must say I'm incredibly disappointed and downright disgusted with what I'm hearing from you guys lately. I thought you were all respectable folk who just had a different attitude on the game, now I find out you're apparently all self-interested jerks who have no guiding principles whatsoever.

"You guys"?

Gee, thanks.

Yeah, it's looking more and more like you were one of the only members in the LNF who actually supported the deal.

He was offered a different deal completely.

Well it appears he was more supportive of a PCP-LNF alliance of some kind than anyone else in the LNF was.

I certainly didn't discourage it, but I really didn't have any intention of supporting it (in part because I didn't think the RPP was crazy enough to do it). I remember the last time the RPP wanted to ally with me.

[bgwah]

Not buying it.

[Χahar]

Don't, then.

But you do remember that last time, don't you? It was right before they started hating me passionately.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Can someone sum this up for me?  I was informed by PiT that he was going to try and set up Rocky to win if I didn't with second preference, but nowhere do I know anything beyond that.  And I've heard a lot of things on the private board, but I'm not going to say anything until I read the rest of the threads here. 

If what I think is correct, then yes, I am not going to win the Northeast race but alas I never thought I would I was just doing it to give us a candidate and planned on winning the seat in December instead.

[Marokai]

Can someone sum this up for me?  I was informed by PiT that he was going to try and set up Rocky to win if I didn't with second preference, but nowhere do I know anything beyond that. 

More like PiT was prepared to ensure your defeat.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Basically we came up with a strategy that would guarantee PiT victory, but Sewer Socialist leaked the PMs and Earl got scared Lief would dump him if he found out that he was working with the PCs so he started this topic which then proceeded to turn into a complete bitchfest with everyone just making sh**t up and making no sense then Rowan posted PMs that didn't really expose anything that was new. But now he's going to lose his Senate seat and I left the party like I said I would.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I think Hamilton's problem is that he thinks he can act like me, the problem is he doesn't have a support group that will vote for him except for his zombie.  He basically destroyed his chances at a senate seat

[Alexander Hamilton]

I think Hamilton's problem is that he thinks he can act like me, the problem is he doesn't have a support group that will vote for him except for his zombie.  He basically destroyed his chances at a senate seat

It seems your own Presidential nominee didn't support you, nor your party chair. I think you are the one with less chances.

[Sewer]

Sewer Socialist leaked the PMs

yay me!

[DownWithTheLeft]

I think Hamilton's problem is that he thinks he can act like me, the problem is he doesn't have a support group that will vote for him except for his zombie.  He basically destroyed his chances at a senate seat

It seems your own Presidential nominee didn't support you, nor your party chair. I think you are the one with less chances.

Once your zombies are gone, you are toast.  You have 0 actual support.  BTW, Duke supported me 100% and PiT, while his actions were reprehensible, kept me updated the whole time

[Alexander Hamilton]

I think Hamilton's problem is that he thinks he can act like me, the problem is he doesn't have a support group that will vote for him except for his zombie.  He basically destroyed his chances at a senate seat

It seems your own Presidential nominee didn't support you, nor your party chair. I think you are the one with less chances.

Once your zombies are gone, you are toast.  You have 0 actual support.  BTW, Duke supported me 100% and PiT, while his actions were reprehensible, kept me updated the whole time

Actually I do have support. And PiT's actions weren't reprehensible at all.

[Senator Kalwejt]

I think Hamilton's problem is that he thinks he can act like me, the problem is he doesn't have a support group that will vote for him except for his zombie.  He basically destroyed his chances at a senate seat

It seems your own Presidential nominee didn't support you, nor your party chair. I think you are the one with less chances.

Everyone say hello to Soon-To-Be-Senate-Loser DWDL

[Hatman]

For the record, I was never scared Lief would dump me. How would my supposed support for Pit change that anyways? My plan was to show some allegiance for Pit if it looked like he was going to win anyways.

I of course can't in good conscience give Pit a high preference anymore, and will be putting Lief in there, where he belongs.

[Badger]

I shall mention most of the details Earl leaves out, and really set the cat among the pigeons:

A shady but tempting deal offer, ostensibly from part of the RPP, to win our second preferences in exchange for giving Dwtl the shaft in the northeast, really exists.

While LNFer reactions vary from "just no" through "not enough" through "they ought to be saying this in public, not behind closed doors" to "fine with me if genuine. How can we be sure of that though?", it seems a consensus not to take the offer was emerging.
But know we also sort of wonder how much Marokai knows and who in the RPP(?) he knows it from.

Forgive me if I choose not to read all near 20 pages of posts before responding, but:

The PCP I can understand taking this step politically. Regardless of whether a JCP or LNF member is elected they would face a similar left leaning vote, and the LNF would not be able to get their most (obstensiably) Marxist agenda passed regardless. So if it maximizes their vote vs. the aggregate JCP LNF senate makeup, then they come out ahead. (I'll leave others to judge the distastefulness of throwing any of their own party members under the bus as part of the deal).

But I'm disappointed in the LNF--or at least those members who seriously considered the deal. Yes, I know the LNF supposedly considers the JCP "bourgeoisie" liberals and little to no better than the "reactionary" PCP. (See, I read your convention and campaign posts) ;-)  But in reality we all know---or at least should know---there is a marked difference in the nature of legislation passed by a PCP led Senate as opposed to one with a progressive majority (or at least plurality).

Yes, I know its all a game in an election sim, but for whatever extent principles matter in this game it sounds like a number of the LNF were willing to chuck those for short-term political gain. If there have been negotiations behind the scenes with the LNF and JCP of which I'm unaware, I apologize for the error. But otherwise the LNF should've considered working with the JCP first. No, the LNF is in no way beholden to the JCP, nor vice-versa. But we're a lot closer natural allies on the issues and goals for Atlasia than the PCP. But, again, for short term political gains it sounds like many in the LNF were willing to sell out to the very "capitalist running dogs" their party supposedly opposes rather than work with fellow progressives.

This is the problem with the left in a nutshell.

[Alexander Hamilton]

I shall mention most of the details Earl leaves out, and really set the cat among the pigeons:

A shady but tempting deal offer, ostensibly from part of the RPP, to win our second preferences in exchange for giving Dwtl the shaft in the northeast, really exists.

While LNFer reactions vary from "just no" through "not enough" through "they ought to be saying this in public, not behind closed doors" to "fine with me if genuine. How can we be sure of that though?", it seems a consensus not to take the offer was emerging.
But know we also sort of wonder how much Marokai knows and who in the RPP(?) he knows it from.

Forgive me if I choose not to read all near 20 pages of posts before responding, but:

The PCP I can understand taking this step politically. Regardless of whether a JCP or LNF member is elected they would face a similar left leaning vote, and the LNF would not be able to get their most (obstensiably) Marxist agenda passed regardless. So if it maximizes their vote vs. the aggregate JCP LNF senate makeup, then they come out ahead. (I'll leave others to judge the distastefulness of throwing any of their own party members under the bus as part of the deal).

But I'm disappointed in the LNF--or at least those members who seriously considered the deal. Yes, I know the LNF supposedly considers the JCP "bourgeoisie" liberals and little to no better than the "reactionary" PCP. (See, I read your convention and campaign posts) ;-)  But in reality we all know---or at least should know---there is a marked difference in the nature of legislation passed by a PCP led Senate as opposed to one with a progressive majority (or at least plurality).

Yes, I know its all a game in an election sim, but for whatever extent principles matter in this game it sounds like a number of the LNF were willing to chuck those for short-term political gain. If there have been negotiations behind the scenes with the LNF and JCP of which I'm unaware, I apologize for the error. But otherwise the LNF should've considered working with the JCP first. No, the LNF is in no way beholden to the JCP, nor vice-versa. But we're a lot closer natural allies on the issues and goals for Atlasia than the PCP. But, again, for short term political gains it sounds like many in the LNF were willing to sell out to the very "capitalist running dogs" their party supposedly opposes rather than work with fellow progressives.

This is the problem with the left in a nutshell.

You don't understand us as an organization, do you?

[Marokai]

I shall mention most of the details Earl leaves out, and really set the cat among the pigeons:

A shady but tempting deal offer, ostensibly from part of the RPP, to win our second preferences in exchange for giving Dwtl the shaft in the northeast, really exists.

While LNFer reactions vary from "just no" through "not enough" through "they ought to be saying this in public, not behind closed doors" to "fine with me if genuine. How can we be sure of that though?", it seems a consensus not to take the offer was emerging.
But know we also sort of wonder how much Marokai knows and who in the RPP(?) he knows it from.

Forgive me if I choose not to read all near 20 pages of posts before responding, but:

The PCP I can understand taking this step politically. Regardless of whether a JCP or LNF member is elected they would face a similar left leaning vote, and the LNF would not be able to get their most (obstensiably) Marxist agenda passed regardless. So if it maximizes their vote vs. the aggregate JCP LNF senate makeup, then they come out ahead. (I'll leave others to judge the distastefulness of throwing any of their own party members under the bus as part of the deal).

But I'm disappointed in the LNF--or at least those members who seriously considered the deal. Yes, I know the LNF supposedly considers the JCP "bourgeoisie" liberals and little to no better than the "reactionary" PCP. (See, I read your convention and campaign posts) ;-)  But in reality we all know---or at least should know---there is a marked difference in the nature of legislation passed by a PCP led Senate as opposed to one with a progressive majority (or at least plurality).

Yes, I know its all a game in an election sim, but for whatever extent principles matter in this game it sounds like a number of the LNF were willing to chuck those for short-term political gain. If there have been negotiations behind the scenes with the LNF and JCP of which I'm unaware, I apologize for the error. But otherwise the LNF should've considered working with the JCP first. No, the LNF is in no way beholden to the JCP, nor vice-versa. But we're a lot closer natural allies on the issues and goals for Atlasia than the PCP. But, again, for short term political gains it sounds like many in the LNF were willing to sell out to the very "capitalist running dogs" their party supposedly opposes rather than work with fellow progressives.

This is the problem with the left in a nutshell.

Quite a good and mature post, Badger. Something I think deserves being read.

And as for the last sentence, that's something I've been saying for awhile now.

[Alexander Hamilton]

I shall mention most of the details Earl leaves out, and really set the cat among the pigeons:

A shady but tempting deal offer, ostensibly from part of the RPP, to win our second preferences in exchange for giving Dwtl the shaft in the northeast, really exists.

While LNFer reactions vary from "just no" through "not enough" through "they ought to be saying this in public, not behind closed doors" to "fine with me if genuine. How can we be sure of that though?", it seems a consensus not to take the offer was emerging.
But know we also sort of wonder how much Marokai knows and who in the RPP(?) he knows it from.

Forgive me if I choose not to read all near 20 pages of posts before responding, but:

The PCP I can understand taking this step politically. Regardless of whether a JCP or LNF member is elected they would face a similar left leaning vote, and the LNF would not be able to get their most (obstensiably) Marxist agenda passed regardless. So if it maximizes their vote vs. the aggregate JCP LNF senate makeup, then they come out ahead. (I'll leave others to judge the distastefulness of throwing any of their own party members under the bus as part of the deal).

But I'm disappointed in the LNF--or at least those members who seriously considered the deal. Yes, I know the LNF supposedly considers the JCP "bourgeoisie" liberals and little to no better than the "reactionary" PCP. (See, I read your convention and campaign posts) ;-)  But in reality we all know---or at least should know---there is a marked difference in the nature of legislation passed by a PCP led Senate as opposed to one with a progressive majority (or at least plurality).

Yes, I know its all a game in an election sim, but for whatever extent principles matter in this game it sounds like a number of the LNF were willing to chuck those for short-term political gain. If there have been negotiations behind the scenes with the LNF and JCP of which I'm unaware, I apologize for the error. But otherwise the LNF should've considered working with the JCP first. No, the LNF is in no way beholden to the JCP, nor vice-versa. But we're a lot closer natural allies on the issues and goals for Atlasia than the PCP. But, again, for short term political gains it sounds like many in the LNF were willing to sell out to the very "capitalist running dogs" their party supposedly opposes rather than work with fellow progressives.

This is the problem with the left in a nutshell.

Quite a good and mature post, Badger. Something I think deserves being read.

And as for the last sentence, that's something I've been saying for awhile now.

An even more "united left" will only cause any kind of right to fall further into irrelevance, making this game essentially useless. It's one of the main reasons I never could leave my former party when I should have.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I think Hamilton's problem is that he thinks he can act like me, the problem is he doesn't have a support group that will vote for him except for his zombie.  He basically destroyed his chances at a senate seat

It seems your own Presidential nominee didn't support you, nor your party chair. I think you are the one with less chances.

Everyone say hello to Soon-To-Be-Senate-Loser DWDL

OMG I have to wait until Decemeber, you have to wait forever

[Alexander Hamilton]

I think Hamilton's problem is that he thinks he can act like me, the problem is he doesn't have a support group that will vote for him except for his zombie.  He basically destroyed his chances at a senate seat

It seems your own Presidential nominee didn't support you, nor your party chair. I think you are the one with less chances.

Everyone say hello to Soon-To-Be-Senate-Loser DWDL

OMG I have to wait until Decemeber, you have to wait forever

Kalwejt would beat you by a larger margin than Fritz

[DownWithTheLeft]

Hamilton leave your delusions for somewhere else, btw I heavily outperformed what everyone thought I would against Fritz FWIW

[Alexander Hamilton]

Hamilton leave your delusions for somewhere else, btw I heavily outperformed what everyone thought I would against Fritz FWIW

No you didn't. Fritz certainly had more potential with the voters who weren't present than you did.