Rumours!

[Marokai Backbeat]

Well first of all they're hardly vicious rumors now, are they? I was approached last night by someone who shall remain nameless that informed me, in great detail of the desperate deal PiT was trying to make with the LNF.

Such things included throwing DWTL under the bus in the Northeast, defeating Hashemite and supporting Rocky instead, the support of Xahar in the Southeast, second preference support, among many other things. PiT was, according to my source, incredibly desperate and willing to make several offers to get his way.

I was also told Hamilton was involved. When I confronted PiT with this, he confirmed they were working together.

It struck me as odd not only because it reinforces the idea the PiT is someone who will do whatever it takes to win, but it seemed unusual for such a cutthroat deal to be offered to the LNF, a party that purportedly is in the game to realize that it's a game and not take things seriously. The PMs I sent to LNF members were simply to say things like "Remember why you exist." "Remember the message." "It is just a game, afterall." Etc.

How quickly PiT is willing to throw his own party members under the bus, not only in the Midwest, Northeast, and Southeast, just for his own gain, is disgusting. And they affect us all, and deserve our united opposition.

[Marokai Backbeat]

    I had no serious intentions of endangering the prospects of any ProCon candidates, though I was hoping to set Rocky up so that he could at least win if it looked like DWTL wasn't going to. Not to mention that Xahar is still under sentence & cannot hold office, so supporting him would mean little.

     But it really doesn't matter, because everything a member of the Atlasian right says is wrong.

Do you expect me to believe that when I have PMs sitting in my mailbox where you justify shooting DWTL down and have messages detailing your offers to support Xahar and Sewer Socialist over your party's candidates? (Among many other things.)

[Marokai Backbeat]

    I had no serious intentions of endangering the prospects of any ProCon candidates, though I was hoping to set Rocky up so that he could at least win if it looked like DWTL wasn't going to. Not to mention that Xahar is still under sentence & cannot hold office, so supporting him would mean little.

     But it really doesn't matter, because everything a member of the Atlasian right says is wrong.

Do you expect me to believe that when I have PMs sitting in my mailbox where you justify shooting DWTL down and have messages detailing your offers to support Xahar and Sewer Socialist over your party's candidates? (Among many other things.)

YOU CAN'T PROVE JACK CRAP!

I'll be happy to post the PMs if everyone involved would give me permission to release them to the public.

[Marokai Backbeat]

    I had no serious intentions of endangering the prospects of any ProCon candidates, though I was hoping to set Rocky up so that he could at least win if it looked like DWTL wasn't going to. Not to mention that Xahar is still under sentence & cannot hold office, so supporting him would mean little.

     But it really doesn't matter, because everything a member of the Atlasian right says is wrong.

Do you expect me to believe that when I have PMs sitting in my mailbox where you justify shooting DWTL down and have messages detailing your offers to support Xahar and Sewer Socialist over your party's candidates? (Among many other things.)

YOU CAN'T PROVE JACK CRAP!

I'll be happy to post the PMs if everyone involved would give me permission to release them to the public.

I hope permission can be obtained. If they don't have anything to hide there shouldn't be any objections.

There would have to be a way to let everyone know I have permission from my source too, without revealing his identity, though.

[Marokai Backbeat]

You guys are going off the assumption that I talk to PiT.

oh come on. You are in his party. Of course you do, this is not geometry.

I don't talk to everyone in my party. Only people who have AIM. Meaning only tmth. And DWTL on facebook.

From talking to PiT I know that you are involved. Cut the BS.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I just wish everyone could see what I've seen.

The idea that PiT is involved with Northeast affairs is ridiculous. I will take the credit, for it was my idea.

Oh I know it was your idea. PiT's disgusting tactics were all your doing and he went along with them because they made him more likely to win. You all intended on screwing your own party members over in at least three regions just for PiT's benefit, it's disgusting.

Clearly all the reform that's happened in the RPP is a name change. Even DWTL is infinitely better a person than you. He's far more honest.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Why? You don't post what you say about me on the part of the private forum I can see. I don't need to do a damn thing you say. You talk in private, I'll talk in private.

Oh you certainly do it well.

[Marokai Backbeat]

This has nothing to do with PiT. He did nothing wrong. He knew he couldn't do anything about my plan in the Northeast. It was beyond his control.

He went along with your plan, he made the deal, he made the promises. He admitted to me that he was working with you, he even defended you to me in private. Don't expect us to buy anymore of your lies, Hamilton.

[Marokai Backbeat]

This has nothing to do with PiT. He did nothing wrong. He knew he couldn't do anything about my plan in the Northeast. It was beyond his control.

He went along with your plan, he made the deal, he made the promises. He admitted to me that he was working with you, he even defended you to me in private. Don't expect us to buy anymore of your lies, Hamilton.

No, it's my fault. I forced him to do that because I was working with someone else who shall remain nameless. I put him in a position I shouldn't have.

Nice try.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I was the first person to reveal Hamilton for what he was, but no one listened to my warning calls.

You haven't revelaed anything. THis whole time nothing has been revelaed except my desire to alter the NE Senate race and bullying PiT

Your attempts to shield PiT in this scheme are ridiculous and transparent. I PMed PiT too, you know. He didn't seem like a hostage when he was talking about his plans, and his working relationship with you.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Wow! Just Wow! Some people think they are really running for office! This is stupid, childish and needs to stop A.S.A.P.

I agree, which is why these schemes must be defeated at all costs.

[Marokai Backbeat]

You had an option, sir. You could have said, 'I am not going to do it. This is wrong for Atlasia, and I am not going to ask Atlasians to pay the price.' You had an option, sir — to say 'no' — and you chose to say 'yes' to the old attitudes and the old stories of the RPP. That sir, if I may say respectfully, that is not good enough for Atlasians.

The exact same could be said to PiT.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'm shackled by the fact that it's illegal in Atlasia to post these PMs and truly expose Hamilton's lies in this thread and elsewhere. If I could, it would show all of us that you and PiT were truly in it together, and all the deals he offered to the LNF, among other things.

You're trying several things here. Including just making shit up that directly contradict what I have sitting in my PM box. You're also trying to make this all about you, and throw yourself in front of PiT to protect him. All of these things are lies and schemes, in a desperate attempt to deflect attention away from where it should rightfully be.

Give it up. The jig is over.

[Marokai Backbeat]

And now you're just lying to everyone because I'm unable to post the PMs. While I'm shackled by the law, you're free to take advantage of the situation and make everything up, because it looks just as credible on the surface.

[Marokai Backbeat]

And now you're just lying to everyone because I'm unable to post the PMs. While I'm shackled by the law, you're free to take advantage of the situation and make everything up, because it looks just as credible on the surface.

Lying about what?

The idea that PiT wasn't very involved is a hilarious falsehood. I have the PMs to prove it, but since the PMs rely on the permission of those who wouldn't be seen in a flattering light by their posting, I'll never get it.

[Marokai Backbeat]

And now you're just lying to everyone because I'm unable to post the PMs. While I'm shackled by the law, you're free to take advantage of the situation and make everything up, because it looks just as credible on the surface.

Lying about what?

The idea that PiT wasn't very involved is a hilarious falsehood. I have the PMs to prove it, but since the PMs rely on the permission of those who wouldn't be seen in a flattering light by their posting, I'll never get it.

Well if that is what you want to think. You are seriously underestimating my ability to manipulate people in that case.

Unfortunately I've been put in a position to where it's actually illegal to prove what I'm saying.

[Marokai Backbeat]

It was me who gave Marokai the information.

You did the right thing. Thank you Sewer Socialist.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I think it was a great idea. Al should've never PMed Sewer Socialist, who I believe is a fake Marokai account.

LOL!

[Marokai Backbeat]

It's this type of thing that prevented me from telling someone as unstable as NC Yankee about any kind of deals.

Classy.

[Marokai Backbeat]

It's this type of thing that prevented me from telling someone as unstable as NC Yankee about any kind of deals.

Classy.

You don't tell people in your party everything. Just shut up, you are the most disgusting creature I've ever met.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Maybe it's just me but I don't see how the LNF did anything particularly bad here. I think it was within Al's right to forward the PM to the rest of his party rather than simply reject it outright, considering that the LNF has that "everyone is a chairman!" leadership and all.

In my opinion, the foul play here is solely on the part of Hamilton and those who enabled his conspiracies.

I'm not trying to blame the LNF for anything, the only thing I remarked on them about was the fact that they act like the joke party. (That's not an insult.) They claim to be around to not take the game seriously and to just have fun, yet they entertain the notion of disgusting and cutthroat election tactics whenever they come their way. They didn't accept of course, it was interrupted and many members opposed it, but some supported it, and were tempted enough to actually consider it, which would seem to directly contradict their supposed message. I think the point here, if there ever was one about the LNF to begin with, is that they're largely no different than anyone else here, despite what they might say.

Nevertheless I'm not trying to make this about the LNF, they can do whatever they want. My gripe was with PiT and Hamilton. Hamilton who came up with the schemes, PiT who went along with them and fought so hard for them and defended Hamilton, willing to throw his own party members under the bus for his own benefit.

This is not hard to understand. I thought it was quite clear we weren't going after the LNF.

PiT, unfortunately, is now MIA. Hamilton has apparently taken it upon himself to play the valiant defender of him and throw himself in front of PiT to protect him. At it's heart, this was a (relatively) straightforward story of the tactics of PiT and Hamilton's assistance in them, but it has somehow become a discussion on Hamilton and the LNF, something it was never meant to be.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Marokai stop acting like you know when you don't. You don't know me.

What I do know is that you're someone who takes this game way too seriously.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Was there some deleted post about me?

I am happy to come clean about anything I may have said in our discussion. I think it may have been about PiT promising to keep me on as SoFA if he wins. I am obviously going to vote for someone who wants to keep me on a SoFA, it is one of my bigger issues. There was some rumours that had he won the last election, I would've been toast.

Are you serious?

Good lord, the LNF can't hold my respect for more than five minutes it seems.

I don't appreciate the fact that you basically lied in your original post here, talking about how I was spreading "vicious rumors" that you apparently knew were true right from the get-go. I don't care what sort of spin you put on it, you knew what I was referring to, you simply tried to come out and made me look like a crazy person or something.

I must say I'm incredibly disappointed and downright disgusted with what I'm hearing from you guys lately. I thought you were all respectable folk who just had a different attitude on the game, now I find out you're apparently all self-interested jerks who have no guiding principles whatsoever.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Can someone sum this up for me?  I was informed by PiT that he was going to try and set up Rocky to win if I didn't with second preference, but nowhere do I know anything beyond that. 

More like PiT was prepared to ensure your defeat.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I shall mention most of the details Earl leaves out, and really set the cat among the pigeons:

A shady but tempting deal offer, ostensibly from part of the RPP, to win our second preferences in exchange for giving Dwtl the shaft in the northeast, really exists.

While LNFer reactions vary from "just no" through "not enough" through "they ought to be saying this in public, not behind closed doors" to "fine with me if genuine. How can we be sure of that though?", it seems a consensus not to take the offer was emerging.
But know we also sort of wonder how much Marokai knows and who in the RPP(?) he knows it from.

Forgive me if I choose not to read all near 20 pages of posts before responding, but:

The PCP I can understand taking this step politically. Regardless of whether a JCP or LNF member is elected they would face a similar left leaning vote, and the LNF would not be able to get their most (obstensiably) Marxist agenda passed regardless. So if it maximizes their vote vs. the aggregate JCP LNF senate makeup, then they come out ahead. (I'll leave others to judge the distastefulness of throwing any of their own party members under the bus as part of the deal).

But I'm disappointed in the LNF--or at least those members who seriously considered the deal. Yes, I know the LNF supposedly considers the JCP "bourgeoisie" liberals and little to no better than the "reactionary" PCP. (See, I read your convention and campaign posts) ;-)  But in reality we all know---or at least should know---there is a marked difference in the nature of legislation passed by a PCP led Senate as opposed to one with a progressive majority (or at least plurality).

Yes, I know its all a game in an election sim, but for whatever extent principles matter in this game it sounds like a number of the LNF were willing to chuck those for short-term political gain. If there have been negotiations behind the scenes with the LNF and JCP of which I'm unaware, I apologize for the error. But otherwise the LNF should've considered working with the JCP first. No, the LNF is in no way beholden to the JCP, nor vice-versa. But we're a lot closer natural allies on the issues and goals for Atlasia than the PCP. But, again, for short term political gains it sounds like many in the LNF were willing to sell out to the very "capitalist running dogs" their party supposedly opposes rather than work with fellow progressives.

This is the problem with the left in a nutshell.

Quite a good and mature post, Badger. Something I think deserves being read.

And as for the last sentence, that's something I've been saying for awhile now.