Teresa Heinz's 12.3% EFFECTIVE tax rate

[Pollwatch99]

To lead America and serve in the Oval Office, you must be willing to live with the spirit of the laws not just the letter of them.  A President must be willing to pay a reasonable effective tax rate and offer no excuses.  Why should a rich President pay one of the lowest effective tax rates in America?  Such a person should not be the leader of this country. 

Teresa made well over 5 million last year.  Teresa paid an effective tax rate of 12.3%.  Why don't you all calculate your effective tax rate?  Divide the amount of tax on your 1040 over your gross income.  Gee, I paid a whole lot more than 12.3%.  I'll bet every person on this board paid more than 12.3% last year.  Be honest with yourself and try it.  The Bush's and the Cheney's paid reasonable effective tax rates( sorry don't remember the actual numbers).

Liz Cheney has it right, this is not a good man.  To run on a platform that we need to raise taxes on the rich (above 200K) while personally making extraordinary use of tax shelters to avoid paying a reasonable effective tax rate is simply unacceptable.  My god, at least pay a respectable effective tax rate of 20% or more.  THe man who wants to lead American and raise taxes has one of the lowest effective tax rates in the country.  This is disgusting.  You lead by example not just by words. 

     

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Doesn't Teresa's low tax rate just show how much more important it is to raise taxes on the wealthy?  Why should we have a tax system where billionaires pay a much lower rate than the middle class?  Why should capital gains be taxed at a much lower rate than wages?   

The highest possible tax rate on capital gains is 15%, so it is not suprising that Teresa's rate is just under that.   You don't have to use tax shelters of any sort to get this low rate, you just have to make your income off of wealth rather than labor.  If you think the income tax rate for the wealthy should be at least 20%, then you have to raise the capital gains tax rate to at least this amount.  Plus, you don't even have to pay payroll taxes on capital gains!

Or are you saying Teresa should volutarily pay a higher tax rate just to show that she is a good person?  By this standard, almost everyone in America is "not a good man".

[Pollwatch99]

Doesn't Teresa's low tax rate just show how much more important it is to raise taxes on the wealthy?  Why should we have a tax system where billionaires pay a much lower rate than the middle class?  Why should capital gains be taxed at a much lower rate than wages?   

The highest possible tax rate on capital gains is 15%, so it is not suprising that Teresa's rate is just under that.   You don't have to use tax shelters of any sort to get this low rate, you just have to make your income off of wealth rather than labor.  If you think the income tax rate for the wealthy should be at least 20%, then you have to raise the capital gains tax rate to at least this amount.  Plus, you don't even have to pay payroll taxes on capital gains!

Or are you saying Teresa should volutarily pay a higher tax rate just to show that she is a good person?  By this standard, almost everyone in America is "not a good man".

Did you calculate your own effective tax rate? 

So you think it would be a good idea for a potential President Kerry to be paying one of the lowest effective tax rates in the country as a multi-millionare( some say a billionaire)?

Then for him, to push legislation for others to pay more while he avoids the same taxes? 




 

[zorkpolitics]

A good reason to go with a flat tax, with a $10,000 personal exemption, and no deductions

[Blue Rectangle]

Doesn't Teresa's low tax rate just show how much more important it is to raise taxes on the wealthy?  Why should we have a tax system where billionaires pay a much lower rate than the middle class?  Why should capital gains be taxed at a much lower rate than wages?  

No, Teresa's low tax rate shows how pointless it is to raise the tax rate on the top bracket.  As you demonstrated, her tax rate, like so many of the ultra-rich, is not determined by the income tax rate, but by the capital gains rate.  But isn't Kerry's core plan for revenue increases based on raising the income tax rate?  Hasn't he repeated that part of his plan over and over when asked how he will pay for all his proposed spending?  As you point out, Kerry’s plan cannot possibly have the effect he claims.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Doesn't Teresa's low tax rate just show how much more important it is to raise taxes on the wealthy?  Why should we have a tax system where billionaires pay a much lower rate than the middle class?  Why should capital gains be taxed at a much lower rate than wages?   

The highest possible tax rate on capital gains is 15%, so it is not suprising that Teresa's rate is just under that.   You don't have to use tax shelters of any sort to get this low rate, you just have to make your income off of wealth rather than labor.  If you think the income tax rate for the wealthy should be at least 20%, then you have to raise the capital gains tax rate to at least this amount.  Plus, you don't even have to pay payroll taxes on capital gains!

Or are you saying Teresa should volutarily pay a higher tax rate just to show that she is a good person?  By this standard, almost everyone in America is "not a good man".

Did you calculate your own effective tax rate? 

So you think it would be a good idea for a potential President Kerry to be paying one of the lowest effective tax rates in the country as a multi-millionare( some say a billionaire)?

Then for him, to push legislation for others to pay more while he avoids the same taxes? 
 

I don't understand...do you object to the current capital gains tax rates, or to the fact that Teresa is not voluntarily paying more in taxes than she is supposed to?

Again, she is not utilizing any tax shelters...it just that the tax rate for capital gains is extraordinarily low.  And Kerry wants to increase it...and has many times said people in his situation should be paying more in taxes.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Doesn't Teresa's low tax rate just show how much more important it is to raise taxes on the wealthy?  Why should we have a tax system where billionaires pay a much lower rate than the middle class?  Why should capital gains be taxed at a much lower rate than wages?   

No, Teresa's low tax rate shows how pointless it is to raise the tax rate on the top bracket.  As you demonstrated, her tax rate, like so many of the ultra-rich, is not determined by the income tax rate, but by the capital gains rate.  But isn't Kerry's core plan for revenue increases based on raising the income tax rate?  Hasn't he repeated that part of his plan over and over when asked how he will pay for all his proposed spending?  As you point out, Kerry’s plan cannot possibly have the effect he claims.

Bush's tax cuts not only reduced the top-rate bracket on wages, but they drastically reduced the top rate bracket on capital gains (much more so than income, IIRC).  I hope Kerry wants to raise this rate as part of his rollback of the tax cuts on the wealthy.  It was basically what John Edwards centered his whole campaign around.

[Pollwatch99]

Doesn't Teresa's low tax rate just show how much more important it is to raise taxes on the wealthy?  Why should we have a tax system where billionaires pay a much lower rate than the middle class?  Why should capital gains be taxed at a much lower rate than wages?   

The highest possible tax rate on capital gains is 15%, so it is not suprising that Teresa's rate is just under that.   You don't have to use tax shelters of any sort to get this low rate, you just have to make your income off of wealth rather than labor.  If you think the income tax rate for the wealthy should be at least 20%, then you have to raise the capital gains tax rate to at least this amount.  Plus, you don't even have to pay payroll taxes on capital gains!

Or are you saying Teresa should volutarily pay a higher tax rate just to show that she is a good person?  By this standard, almost everyone in America is "not a good man".

Did you calculate your own effective tax rate? 

So you think it would be a good idea for a potential President Kerry to be paying one of the lowest effective tax rates in the country as a multi-millionare( some say a billionaire)?

Then for him, to push legislation for others to pay more while he avoids the same taxes? 
 

I don't understand...do you object to the current capital gains tax rates, or to the fact that Teresa is not voluntarily paying more in taxes than she is supposed to?

Again, she is not utilizing any tax shelters...it just that the tax rate for capital gains is extraordinarily low.  And Kerry wants to increase it...and has many times said people in his situation should be paying more in taxes.

I think you've assummed it's the capital gain rate reduction which reduced her marginal tax rate.  Wrong guess.  But let's talk about capital gains tax changes.  50% of America is an investor class.  That change just doesn't effect 1% of America.  More Kerry double talk.

Teresa low effective rate is primarily investments in tax free bonds.  Whether the shelter should exist or not is open for discussion.

My point is that a potential future President using tax shelters to pay one of the lowest rates in the country is wrong.  You can try to debate the "fine" point but on the big picture, that dog doesn't hunt.

[Pollwatch99]

Doesn't Teresa's low tax rate just show how much more important it is to raise taxes on the wealthy?  Why should we have a tax system where billionaires pay a much lower rate than the middle class?  Why should capital gains be taxed at a much lower rate than wages?   

The highest possible tax rate on capital gains is 15%, so it is not suprising that Teresa's rate is just under that.   You don't have to use tax shelters of any sort to get this low rate, you just have to make your income off of wealth rather than labor.  If you think the income tax rate for the wealthy should be at least 20%, then you have to raise the capital gains tax rate to at least this amount.  Plus, you don't even have to pay payroll taxes on capital gains!

Or are you saying Teresa should volutarily pay a higher tax rate just to show that she is a good person?  By this standard, almost everyone in America is "not a good man".

Did you calculate your own effective tax rate? 

So you think it would be a good idea for a potential President Kerry to be paying one of the lowest effective tax rates in the country as a multi-millionare( some say a billionaire)?

Then for him, to push legislation for others to pay more while he avoids the same taxes? 
 

I don't understand...do you object to the current capital gains tax rates, or to the fact that Teresa is not voluntarily paying more in taxes than she is supposed to?

Again, she is not utilizing any tax shelters...it just that the tax rate for capital gains is extraordinarily low.  And Kerry wants to increase it...and has many times said people in his situation should be paying more in taxes.

I think you've assummed it's the capital gain rate reduction which reduced her marginal tax rate.  Wrong guess.  But let's talk about capital gains tax changes.  50% of America is an investor class.  That change just doesn't effect 1% of America.  More Kerry double talk.

Teresa low effective rate is primarily investments in tax free bonds.  Whether the shelter should exist or not is open for discussion.

My point is that a potential future President using tax shelters to pay one of the lowest rates in the country is wrong.  You can try to debate the "fine" point but on the big picture, that dog doesn't hunt.

To lead America and serve in the Oval Office, you must be willing to live with the spirit of the laws not just the letter of them.  A President must be willing to pay a reasonable effective tax rate and offer no excuses or they should not be given the highest office in our land.

[CollectiveInterest]

To lead America and serve in the Oval Office, you must be willing to live with the spirit of the laws not just the letter of them.  A President must be willing to pay a reasonable effective tax rate and offer no excuses.  Why should a rich President pay one of the lowest effective tax rates in America?  Such a person should not be the leader of this country. 

Teresa made well over 5 million last year.  Teresa paid an effective tax rate of 12.3%.  Why don't you all calculate your effective tax rate?  Divide the amount of tax on your 1040 over your gross income.  Gee, I paid a whole lot more than 12.3%.  I'll bet every person on this board paid more than 12.3% last year.  Be honest with yourself and try it.  The Bush's and the Cheney's paid reasonable effective tax rates( sorry don't remember the actual numbers).

Liz Cheney has it right, this is not a good man.  To run on a platform that we need to raise taxes on the rich (above 200K) while personally making extraordinary use of tax shelters to avoid paying a reasonable effective tax rate is simply unacceptable.  My god, at least pay a respectable effective tax rate of 20% or more.  THe man who wants to lead American and raise taxes has one of the lowest effective tax rates in the country.  This is disgusting.  You lead by example not just by words. 
     

Are you saying THK should voluntarily contribute money to the gov't? Why? Cuz she's a Democrat?

You're complaining about the tax code taxing work at a higher rate than wealth. Isn't this John Edwards complaint? Where were you on the issue when Bush was cutting the tax on dividends?

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Doesn't Teresa's low tax rate just show how much more important it is to raise taxes on the wealthy?  Why should we have a tax system where billionaires pay a much lower rate than the middle class?  Why should capital gains be taxed at a much lower rate than wages?   

The highest possible tax rate on capital gains is 15%, so it is not suprising that Teresa's rate is just under that.   You don't have to use tax shelters of any sort to get this low rate, you just have to make your income off of wealth rather than labor.  If you think the income tax rate for the wealthy should be at least 20%, then you have to raise the capital gains tax rate to at least this amount.  Plus, you don't even have to pay payroll taxes on capital gains!

Or are you saying Teresa should volutarily pay a higher tax rate just to show that she is a good person?  By this standard, almost everyone in America is "not a good man".

Did you calculate your own effective tax rate? 

So you think it would be a good idea for a potential President Kerry to be paying one of the lowest effective tax rates in the country as a multi-millionare( some say a billionaire)?

Then for him, to push legislation for others to pay more while he avoids the same taxes? 
 

I don't understand...do you object to the current capital gains tax rates, or to the fact that Teresa is not voluntarily paying more in taxes than she is supposed to?

Again, she is not utilizing any tax shelters...it just that the tax rate for capital gains is extraordinarily low.  And Kerry wants to increase it...and has many times said people in his situation should be paying more in taxes.

I think you've assummed it's the capital gain rate reduction which reduced her marginal tax rate.  Wrong guess.  But let's talk about capital gains tax changes.  50% of America is an investor class.  That change just doesn't effect 1% of America.  More Kerry double talk.

Teresa low effective rate is primarily investments in tax free bonds.  Whether the shelter should exist or not is open for discussion.

My point is that a potential future President using tax shelters to pay one of the lowest rates in the country is wrong.  You can try to debate the "fine" point but on the big picture, that dog doesn't hunt.

I assume if the bonds are tax-free then they are government-issued bonds.  You pay an imputed tax on these by accepting a lower rate of interest on such bond than on other, conventionally-taxable investments.  So by buying such bonds you are effectively paying a tax to which ever government issued the bonds.

Almost all wealthy people pay a lower tax rate than the middle class because they tend to have much higher capital gains and they don't pay payroll taxes.  A person who makes millions a year in capital gains pays only 15%, while a middle-class wage earner pays triple that (28% tax bracket plus 16% in payroll taxes)!

Don't you think that Bush and Cheney took advantage of the tax breaks they could get while they were in the private sector?  There is nothing wrong with doing this.  If we find a tax loophole that we don't think is right, we should repeal it...we shouldn't just expect each individual to refuse to use it in order to prove their morality.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Doesn't Teresa's low tax rate just show how much more important it is to raise taxes on the wealthy?  Why should we have a tax system where billionaires pay a much lower rate than the middle class?  Why should capital gains be taxed at a much lower rate than wages?   

The highest possible tax rate on capital gains is 15%, so it is not suprising that Teresa's rate is just under that.   You don't have to use tax shelters of any sort to get this low rate, you just have to make your income off of wealth rather than labor.  If you think the income tax rate for the wealthy should be at least 20%, then you have to raise the capital gains tax rate to at least this amount.  Plus, you don't even have to pay payroll taxes on capital gains!

Or are you saying Teresa should volutarily pay a higher tax rate just to show that she is a good person?  By this standard, almost everyone in America is "not a good man".

Did you calculate your own effective tax rate? 

So you think it would be a good idea for a potential President Kerry to be paying one of the lowest effective tax rates in the country as a multi-millionare( some say a billionaire)?

Then for him, to push legislation for others to pay more while he avoids the same taxes? 
 

I don't understand...do you object to the current capital gains tax rates, or to the fact that Teresa is not voluntarily paying more in taxes than she is supposed to?

Again, she is not utilizing any tax shelters...it just that the tax rate for capital gains is extraordinarily low.  And Kerry wants to increase it...and has many times said people in his situation should be paying more in taxes.

I think you've assummed it's the capital gain rate reduction which reduced her marginal tax rate.  Wrong guess.  But let's talk about capital gains tax changes.  50% of America is an investor class.  That change just doesn't effect 1% of America.  More Kerry double talk.

Teresa low effective rate is primarily investments in tax free bonds.  Whether the shelter should exist or not is open for discussion.

My point is that a potential future President using tax shelters to pay one of the lowest rates in the country is wrong.  You can try to debate the "fine" point but on the big picture, that dog doesn't hunt.

To lead America and serve in the Oval Office, you must be willing to live with the spirit of the laws not just the letter of them.  A President must be willing to pay a reasonable effective tax rate and offer no excuses or they should not be given the highest office in our land.

It is well within the spirit of the laws to buy tax-free government bonds; that is the only way our governments can even run deficits.  If you don't think that's right, then work to change the law.  Don't criticize people for following it.

[Pollwatch99]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It is well within the spirit of the laws to buy tax-free government bonds; that is the only way our governments can even run deficits.  If you don't think that's right, then work to change the law.  Don't criticize people for following it.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I criticize nobody for taking advantage of tax breaks.  I specifically criticize Kerry for wanting to lead this country while paying one of the lowest effective tax rates in the country. 

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It is well within the spirit of the laws to buy tax-free government bonds; that is the only way our governments can even run deficits.  If you don't think that's right, then work to change the law.  Don't criticize people for following it.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I criticize nobody for taking advantage of tax breaks.  I specifically criticize Kerry for wanting to lead this country while paying one of the lowest effective tax rates in the country. 

So you're basically saying our tax system is fine, but politicians have a moral obligation to pay more in taxes than they legally owe?

[A18]

He wants to raise my family's taxes, and we pay 30%!

[TeePee4Prez]

He wants to raise my family's taxes, and we pay 30%!

BOO HISS!!

[A18]

He wants to raise my family's taxes, and we pay 30%!

BOO HISS!!

I don't know what the hell boo hiss is supposed to mean, so I'll ignore it.

This moron is paying a 12% tax rate while we pay 30%.

But what's more is that he b*tches about Bush's tax cuts. This is what we call outright immorality.

What do you pay in taxes? A dollar?

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

This moron is paying a 12% tax rate while we pay 30%.

But what's more is that he b*tches about Bush's tax cuts. This is what we call outright immorality.

What do you pay in taxes? A dollar?

Even if you're paying in the top income tax bracket, (35% or 36% right now), you have a lower marginal tax rate than people in the middle clase, who are paying around 45%.

So do Republican here think it is right for billionaires to pay only 12% in taxes?  Or are they only upset about Democrats paying 12% in taxes?

[A18]

The top income bracket pays a higher percentage than anyone else.

I'm upset about people complaining that we need to raise taxes on the upper class paying 12% in taxes when it just so happens they're billionares!

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

The top income bracket pays a higher percentage than anyone else.

I'm upset about people complaining that we need to raise taxes on the upper class paying 12% in taxes when it just so happens they're billionares.

The top bracket doesn't pay a higher percentage because they don't pay payroll taxes. 

Most people pay more in payroll taxes than income taxes.  You can't just ignore them because they don't affect the rich!

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

The top income bracket pays a higher percentage than anyone else.

I'm upset about people complaining that we need to raise taxes on the upper class paying 12% in taxes when it just so happens they're billionares!

Do you believe that 15% should be the maximum tax rate on capital gains?

[A18]

I'm talking about income tax. I would abolish the payroll tax.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

I'm talking about income tax. I would abolish the payroll tax.

OK....so why wasn't this included as part of Bush's tax cuts?  Why?  Because it doesn't help the rich!

[A18]

It's one step out of many. I have no clue why we have all these taxes in the first place.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Doesn't Teresa's low tax rate just show how much more important it is to raise taxes on the wealthy?  Why should we have a tax system where billionaires pay a much lower rate than the middle class?  Why should capital gains be taxed at a much lower rate than wages?   

No, Teresa's low tax rate shows how pointless it is to raise the tax rate on the top bracket.  As you demonstrated, her tax rate, like so many of the ultra-rich, is not determined by the income tax rate, but by the capital gains rate.  But isn't Kerry's core plan for revenue increases based on raising the income tax rate?  Hasn't he repeated that part of his plan over and over when asked how he will pay for all his proposed spending?  As you point out, Kerry’s plan cannot possibly have the effect he claims.

Who said Kerry wouldn't raise capital gains taxes on the rich?