Teresa Heinz's 12.3% EFFECTIVE tax rate

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Doesn't Teresa's low tax rate just show how much more important it is to raise taxes on the wealthy?  Why should we have a tax system where billionaires pay a much lower rate than the middle class?  Why should capital gains be taxed at a much lower rate than wages?   

No, Teresa's low tax rate shows how pointless it is to raise the tax rate on the top bracket.  As you demonstrated, her tax rate, like so many of the ultra-rich, is not determined by the income tax rate, but by the capital gains rate.  But isn't Kerry's core plan for revenue increases based on raising the income tax rate?  Hasn't he repeated that part of his plan over and over when asked how he will pay for all his proposed spending?  As you point out, Kerry’s plan cannot possibly have the effect he claims.

Who said Kerry wouldn't raise capital gains taxes on the rich?

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Doesn't Teresa's low tax rate just show how much more important it is to raise taxes on the wealthy?  Why should we have a tax system where billionaires pay a much lower rate than the middle class?  Why should capital gains be taxed at a much lower rate than wages?   

The highest possible tax rate on capital gains is 15%, so it is not suprising that Teresa's rate is just under that.   You don't have to use tax shelters of any sort to get this low rate, you just have to make your income off of wealth rather than labor.  If you think the income tax rate for the wealthy should be at least 20%, then you have to raise the capital gains tax rate to at least this amount.  Plus, you don't even have to pay payroll taxes on capital gains!

Or are you saying Teresa should volutarily pay a higher tax rate just to show that she is a good person?  By this standard, almost everyone in America is "not a good man".

Did you calculate your own effective tax rate? 

So you think it would be a good idea for a potential President Kerry to be paying one of the lowest effective tax rates in the country as a multi-millionare( some say a billionaire)?

Then for him, to push legislation for others to pay more while he avoids the same taxes? 
 

I don't understand...do you object to the current capital gains tax rates, or to the fact that Teresa is not voluntarily paying more in taxes than she is supposed to?

Again, she is not utilizing any tax shelters...it just that the tax rate for capital gains is extraordinarily low.  And Kerry wants to increase it...and has many times said people in his situation should be paying more in taxes.

I think you've assummed it's the capital gain rate reduction which reduced her marginal tax rate.  Wrong guess.  But let's talk about capital gains tax changes.  50% of America is an investor class.  That change just doesn't effect 1% of America.  More Kerry double talk.

Teresa low effective rate is primarily investments in tax free bonds.  Whether the shelter should exist or not is open for discussion.

My point is that a potential future President using tax shelters to pay one of the lowest rates in the country is wrong.  You can try to debate the "fine" point but on the big picture, that dog doesn't hunt.

Most of that 50% doesn't have much in investments. Kerry is only raising taxes on people making over 200k a year, anyways.

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It is well within the spirit of the laws to buy tax-free government bonds; that is the only way our governments can even run deficits.  If you don't think that's right, then work to change the law.  Don't criticize people for following it.

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I criticize nobody for taking advantage of tax breaks.  I specifically criticize Kerry for wanting to lead this country while paying one of the lowest effective tax rates in the country. 

He's going to raise her taxes.

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He wants to raise my family's taxes, and we pay 30%!

Your family makes over 200k a year?

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He wants to raise my family's taxes, and we pay 30%!

BOO HISS!!

I don't know what the hell boo hiss is supposed to mean, so I'll ignore it.

This moron is paying a 12% tax rate while we pay 30%.

But what's more is that he b*tches about Bush's tax cuts. This is what we call outright immorality.

What do you pay in taxes? A dollar?

Thanks to the Republicans, capital gains taxes are nothing. Go bitch at them.

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No one cares that they're paying a 12% tax rate. We just don't want them bitching about how other people aren't paying enough.

You seem to care that she's paying only 12%. Her husband will raise her taxes. Do you have a problem with that?

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No one cares that they're paying a 12% tax rate. We just don't want them bitching about how other people aren't paying enough.

You seem to care that she's paying only 12%. Her husband will raise her taxes. Do you have a problem with that?

Teresa's taxes are low thanks to Republicans. Kerry will change that. People who make over 200k a year like Teresa and your family (since you're saying Kerry will raise their taxes) pay a lower percentage in taxes then the poor, anyways (think payroll taxes, sales taxes, gas taxes, utility taxes). The rich can afford a tax increase. They get plenty of benefits from society, including a lot of welfare for the rich and large corporations. They can pay their fair share of taxes during a war.

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I just said I don't care that she's paying 12%. I care that she's paying 12% and at the same time her husband is trying to raise taxes on people like my family.

If you're family is making more than $200K per year, they should be paying more in taxes.  I think my parents should be paying more in taxes, and they agree with me (I don't think they make more than 200K either).  Expenditures like the current war should be paid for by those who can afford to do so, not left to our grandchildren who will have to pay the cost ten times over because of compounded interest on our national debt.

If Kerry wants Americans who earn more than 200K to pay more taxes, let him start with Teresa.  An American President paying the lowest effective tax rates would be a national disgrace.  He couldn't stand up to Dean in the debates, he cannot stand up to Teresa, and he doesn't deserve the right to be our President until he is willing to live with the spirit of the tax code.  We are not interested in excuses, he needs to be accountable for his personal actions.

He's raising taxes on his wife, duh. What part of that don't you understand. You're applying different standards for Democrats and Republicans. Typical.

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If Kerry wants Americans who earn more than 200K to pay more taxes, let him start with Teresa.  An American President paying the lowest effective tax rates would be a national disgrace.  He couldn't stand up to Dean in the debates, he cannot stand up to Teresa, and he doesn't deserve the right to be our President until he is willing to live with the spirit of the tax code.  We are not interested in excuses, he needs to be accountable for his personal actions.

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He's raising taxes on his wife, duh. What part of that don't you understand. You're applying different standards for Democrats and Republicans. Typical.

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Need we have math lessons?  When you start with that low an effective rate ( because so much is sheltered ) then you have a miniscule change compared to everybody starting at the high rate.  Duh ?

Of course the poor pay less in taxes, but they pay a higher rate of taxes.

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If Teresa paid a "reasonable" effective tax rate of say 20%, we are talking about a deficit reduction of about a half a million dollars. I believe the deficit is 413MM.  Gee, find 825 more of these people and we have no deficit.  I hope the democrats are still proud of Teresa.

The deficit is $600 BILLION a year.

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If Teresa paid a "reasonable" effective tax rate of say 20%, we are talking about a deficit reduction of about a half a million dollars. I believe the deficit is 413MM.  Gee, find 825 more of these people and we have no deficit.  I hope the democrats are still proud of Teresa.

The deficit is $600 BILLION a year.

I stand corrected it's 413B.  I need to control my passion

$600 billion if you count money borrowed from SS, and unallocated money for Iraq.

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I was distinguishing between very rich people who make all their income in capital gains (who pay 15%) and middle class wage earners who make their income in wages, which are taxed at around 45% at the margins. 

Well, comparing investing (risk of losing 100%) with wage earning (ZERO risk) is kinda like comparing apples to coconuts, isn't it?

No, I think all kinds of income should be subject to the same tax structure.

But in any case, the original poster in this thread was complaining that Teresa paid a lower tax rate than most wage earners.  I was simply pointing out that wages were taxed at a much higher rate than capital gains (thanks to Republicans), and thus there is nothing underhanded about very rich people paying a lower rate than middle class people.   The system may be morally wrong, but there is nothing wrong with an individual paying their taxes according to the appropriate rates.

It was actually President Clinton who signed a large reduction of the capital gains tax, to 20%, in 1997.  So it isn't just a Republican policy.

Kerry's wife doesn't work, and therefore her income is passive, or unearned.  Kerry seeks to more heavily tax high income wage-earners, so I don't see how his plan addresses the huge tax gap between wage earners and those wealthy enough not to work.

While I am not a fan of Kerry or his wife, I think these low effective tax rates for people who live off investment income are a necessary evil, so to speak.  To raise those rates to ordinary income rates would discourage investment, depress the economy, and hurt wage earners as a whole through economic contraction.

But politically, these low rates of taxation for his loud-mouthed wife do create political problems for Kerry, given his (falsely) populist rhetoric.

I believe you're right that Kerry's plan would not tax capital gains at the same rate as wage income.  This was John Edwards's proposal, and was a major reason why I think he would have made a better candidate and president.

I don't think there's much difference between their positions. The hard thing will be getting the Republican House to ever pass anything.