Poll: Who wins in 2012?

[Devilman88]

I'm not going to say who will win, in 2012. But I will say if things don't trunk around and Obama will not win.

[Mechaman]

The dangerous 1915 KKK reached its peak during the second term of Calvin Coolidge.  

Your logic here fails so hard.
This is just as pathetic as what I've seen from many blowhard far right conservatives. I mean really pbrower, I didn't expect such a fail of an argument to be used by you.

Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about to put it into better perspective:

Nazi Germany reached its peak during the second and third terms of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

Just because Group X grows the most while Leader A leads B country doesn't mean that Leader A is most responsible for the growth of Group X.

Here's another example (a bit more fun):

Progressive Rock reached its peak during Nixon's second term.
See, those two have little to do with each other, yet this is the kind of argument you are employing in the quote. The idea that Richard Nixon was responsible for the popularity of Progressive Rock is crazy, so is the idea that Calvin Coolidge is responsible for the rise of the KKK.

I tell you if James Cox or John W. Davis were presidents during this era the KKK would be just as strong, if not stronger (if Davis was president). I am not denying that the KKK was popular amongst Republicans in the Midwest, but their strength at the time was due to environment and not just because one guy sat in the Oval Office. The president is not f***ing god and can not dictate the direction of society, there are other factors present.

[Beet]

The way things are going right now, Obama will not only not win, but he will lose in a landslide. The problem is that he has no accomplishments because his party is disunited. The GOP, whether the Bush years or the Obama years, are like one arm, moving in unison. The Democrats are like 4-5 different parties squabbling on a wagon cart that is about to turn over. As I believe the pendulum has swung from weak government (1970s-2000s) towards strong government, as it was in the 1930s, then this favors the GOP, which is structurally best suited for strong government. The irony of the GOP's weak government rhetoric (when they are out of power) is that they are much more effective at actually passing legislation even with smaller majorities and therefore you end up with a stronger government (see Medicare Part D;Sarbanes-Oxley). Whereas the Democrats will talk for decades about grand plans like public health care, but they will never actually do it.

J.J. has been predicting a realignment for 2012 through much of the 2008 season, and he was laughed at at the time, but he may be right.

Of course I hope it does not happen and that things can turn around. If Obama can just get one major accomplishment (like health care) it will be a huge relief.

[pbrower2a]

The dangerous 1915 KKK reached its peak during the second term of Calvin Coolidge.  

Your logic here fails so hard.
This is just as pathetic as what I've seen from many blowhard far right conservatives. I mean really pbrower, I didn't expect such a fail of an argument to be used by you.

Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about to put it into better perspective:

Nazi Germany reached its peak during the second and third terms of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

Just because Group X grows the most while Leader A leads B country doesn't mean that Leader A is most responsible for the growth of Group X.

Here's another example (a bit more fun):

Progressive Rock reached its peak during Nixon's second term.
See, those two have little to do with each other, yet this is the kind of argument you are employing in the quote. The idea that Richard Nixon was responsible for the popularity of Progressive Rock is crazy, so is the idea that Calvin Coolidge is responsible for the rise of the KKK.

I tell you if James Cox or John W. Davis were presidents during this era the KKK would be just as strong, if not stronger (if Davis was president). I am not denying that the KKK was popular amongst Republicans in the Midwest, but their strength at the time was due to environment and not just because one guy sat in the Oval Office. The president is not f***ing god and can not dictate the direction of society, there are other factors present.

OK, OK, OK. There's a huge difference between the KKK and progressive rock; the KKK killed people, and progressive rock didn't. Coolidge didn't encourage people to join the Klan, but he didn't tell people to leave it. Heck, bootleggers killed more people than did the Klan.

Coolidge may not have been a corrupt, reckless, and dishonest man, but he was certainly unmemorable for any noteworthy achievements. Minority rights? He wasn't called Silent Cal without cause. Economic achievements? He presided over the most destructive bubble in American history.

Coolidge (like Dubya) demonstrates that a President with few achievements can be re-elected (or in his case he could be said to have been said elected to his then-current office) -- and the issue at hand is that 13 incumbent Presidents won election and 5 didn't.  That is no insignificant statistic. Whether it is continuing a term to which he was originally elected President or a term that resulted from succession of a President who died in office or resigned is not my consideration. 

I wasn't talking about Cox (how could he have been worse than Harding?) or Davis any more than I was talking about Thomas Dewey or Adlai Stevenson.

[Alexander Hamilton]

The dangerous 1915 KKK reached its peak during the second term of Calvin Coolidge.  

Your logic here fails so hard.
This is just as pathetic as what I've seen from many blowhard far right conservatives. I mean really pbrower, I didn't expect such a fail of an argument to be used by you.

Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about to put it into better perspective:

Nazi Germany reached its peak during the second and third terms of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

Just because Group X grows the most while Leader A leads B country doesn't mean that Leader A is most responsible for the growth of Group X.

Here's another example (a bit more fun):

Progressive Rock reached its peak during Nixon's second term.
See, those two have little to do with each other, yet this is the kind of argument you are employing in the quote. The idea that Richard Nixon was responsible for the popularity of Progressive Rock is crazy, so is the idea that Calvin Coolidge is responsible for the rise of the KKK.

I tell you if James Cox or John W. Davis were presidents during this era the KKK would be just as strong, if not stronger (if Davis was president). I am not denying that the KKK was popular amongst Republicans in the Midwest, but their strength at the time was due to environment and not just because one guy sat in the Oval Office. The president is not f***ing god and can not dictate the direction of society, there are other factors present.

OK, OK, OK. There's a huge difference between the KKK and progressive rock; the KKK killed people, and progressive rock didn't. Coolidge didn't encourage people to join the Klan, but he didn't tell people to leave it. Heck, bootleggers killed more people than did the Klan.

Coolidge may not have been a corrupt, reckless, and dishonest man, but he was certainly unmemorable for any noteworthy achievements. Minority rights? He wasn't called Silent Cal without cause. Economic achievements? He presided over the most destructive bubble in American history.

Coolidge (like Dubya) demonstrates that a President with few achievements can be re-elected (or in his case he could be said to have been said elected to his then-current office) -- and the issue at hand is that 13 incumbent Presidents won election and 5 didn't.  That is no insignificant statistic. Whether it is continuing a term to which he was originally elected President or a term that resulted from succession of a President who died in office or resigned is not my consideration. 

I wasn't talking about Cox (how could he have been worse than Harding?) or Davis any more than I was talking about Thomas Dewey or Adlai Stevenson.

You MORON. Coolidge essentially killed the KKK. His refusal to incorporate them in his administration destroyed almost all influence they had. Minority rights? Coolidge was one of the best Presidents for minority rights we've had. I'd say he's second only to Abraham Lincoln.  Coolidge had many achievements. Was a return to normalcy not an achievement? A booming economy? Not to mention he only had ONE DAMN YEAR before re-election.

God, pbrower2a, you are easily one the most hackish, clouded, and straight up sinning posters on this forum. Your thought coherency is negative on a scale of 1-10.

[DS0816]

Incumbents have won 13 of the last 18 elections (which goes back to 1900). Losers:

1. William Howard Taft …
2. Herbert Hoover …
3. Gerald Ford …
4. Jimmy Carter …
5. George H. W. Bush …

This doesn't count for the first two. But with #s 3-5, each had an approval rating below 45 percent. Since pollings began around World War II, no party has been able to hold the White House if the incumbent party's figure (around election time) had a rating below that number 45. You can add George W. Bush to this; his numbers hovered between the mid-20s and -30s for his last two years in office.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Coolidge may have been popular at the time, but I'm going on a historical assessment of the Presidents. Coolidge was a ticking time-bomb of a President who fostered calamities that would explode after the end of his Presidency. The speculative boom of the 1920s has obvious parallels to the one of recent years -- except that it was more in securities than in real estate. Coolidge did nothing to mute a stock market bubble that began when he was President. Hoover had been President for only six months at the time of the 1929 Stock Market Crash.

The president is not in control of the business cycle. The Federal Reserve set the conditions up for a bust. It was the Hoover and Roosevelt administrations that then proceeded to turn an isolated crash into the Great Depression. Had Harding-Coolidge policy been adhered to, there would have been no Great Depression.

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Wait, the Germans were the ones who got FDR?

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TR and Eisenhower as "peacetime" presidents? Please, you clearly haven't gotten a clue.

(Coolidge was still better than either of them, by the way)

[Phony Moderate]

Independent: Michael Bloomberg.

[ChrisJG777]

No one, it turns out that all the "end of the world" stories were true afterall, except for the part where it ends on December.  Instead, the world ends one day before election night. 

</wussy-yet-somewhat-insane-non-committal-answer>

[Alexander Hamilton]

Coolidge may have been popular at the time, but I'm going on a historical assessment of the Presidents. Coolidge was a ticking time-bomb of a President who fostered calamities that would explode after the end of his Presidency. The speculative boom of the 1920s has obvious parallels to the one of recent years -- except that it was more in securities than in real estate. Coolidge did nothing to mute a stock market bubble that began when he was President. Hoover had been President for only six months at the time of the 1929 Stock Market Crash.

The president is not in control of the business cycle. The Federal Reserve set the conditions up for a bust. It was the Hoover and Roosevelt administrations that then proceeded to turn an isolated crash into the Great Depression. Had Harding-Coolidge policy been adhered to, there would have been no Great Depression.

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Wait, the Germans were the ones who got FDR?

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TR and Eisenhower as "peacetime" presidents? Please, you clearly haven't gotten a clue.

(Coolidge was still better than either of them, by the way)

pbrower2a lives in a fantasyland where all Republicans suck and all Democrats are Gods.

[Mechaman]

Wake up call for pbrower:

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If anything the KKK would consider Coolidge closer to the Anti-christ than a help.

Now let's contrast that to Almighty FDR:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

Enough said.

[Mr.Phips]

Way too early to tell, but if Obama doesnt get healthcare reform passed, I think many Democrats are going to abandon him.  Democrats are simply tired of being promised things by their candidates and then seeing them not deliver when they get into office.  I think this will be the last straw. 

[pbrower2a]

Coolidge may have been popular at the time, but I'm going on a historical assessment of the Presidents. Coolidge was a ticking time-bomb of a President who fostered calamities that would explode after the end of his Presidency. The speculative boom of the 1920s has obvious parallels to the one of recent years -- except that it was more in securities than in real estate. Coolidge did nothing to mute a stock market bubble that began when he was President. Hoover had been President for only six months at the time of the 1929 Stock Market Crash.

The president is not in control of the business cycle. The Federal Reserve set the conditions up for a bust. It was the Hoover and Roosevelt administrations that then proceeded to turn an isolated crash into the Great Depression. Had Harding-Coolidge policy been adhered to, there would have been no Great Depression.

Maybe not the President, but certainly the political culture. During the 1920s, productivity rose faster than wages. Such itself creates increasing economic inequality, and in the end the super-rich who get the gains can't spend enough to prevent the decline of the economy.  Much the same happened in this decade; in the 1920s the cause of productivity outstripping wages was  the electrification of factories; in this decade it was the use of computers that  made business able to do more work with fewer employees. As a symptom of the trend the Gini coefficient (a measure of economic inequality) for income in the US rose to the high 40s, the highest that it had been since... 1929!

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Wait, the Germans were the ones who got FDR?[/quote]

Take a look at any US dime minted since 1946 for a clue. You know exactly who I mean by the Antichrist -- and he barely got a chance to wield power, and he milked that chance to establish one of the most vicious despotisms in human history. Hitler's Nazi Party was bankrupt, and his political support was beginning to shrink when some fools chose to let him get power.

I concede that Lincoln and Hitler had one thing in common -- death at age 56  by a gunshot wound to the head from a madman at or near the end of the war for which he is best known.   

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TR and Eisenhower as "peacetime" presidents? Please, you clearly haven't gotten a clue.

(Coolidge was still better than either of them, by the way)
[/quote]

Really?

Theodore Roosevelt is consistently considered one of our greatest Presidents, Eisenhower  is well above average in all but one scholarly poll taken two years after he left the Presidency, and Coolidge is on the borderline of the worst.

[Coburn In 2012]

There is a good chance he wont even make it to 2012 because we will win back the house and sen in 2010 and if we elect Republicans who care more about american than being pc, obama will be impeached for treason.  there is going to be hell to pay for his cottling of hassan and the moslem extremists. (check out the WND story about how hassan served as an "adviser" to obama on the war on terror.)

But if the democRATs weasle thier way out of that some how then obama will be landslided out of office like President Ronald Reagan did with 2 straight democRAT pussy types carter and mondale.  What we have now is a carter with dark skin.  And unlike carter he is corrupt on top of it.  More of this will come out as we control congress and get to hold hearings into his many shananningans.

So R in 2012.  Just pray its a conservative and not some RINO

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Maybe not the President, but certainly the political culture. During the 1920s, productivity rose faster than wages. Such itself creates increasing economic inequality, and in the end the super-rich who get the gains can't spend enough to prevent the decline of the economy.  Much the same happened in this decade; in the 1920s the cause of productivity outstripping wages was  the electrification of factories; in this decade it was the use of computers that  made business able to do more work with fewer employees. As a symptom of the trend the Gini coefficient (a measure of economic inequality) for income in the US rose to the high 40s, the highest that it had been since... 1929!

The blame for the initial stock market crash lies squarely upon the Federal Reserve. Coolidge is only guilty insofar as he failed to abolish the Fed.

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Hmm, is this Jeopardy? Who is Roosevelt? Or is it Lincoln?

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They were also both fascistic totalitarian megalomaniacs who started wars that killed lots of people.

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Yes, really. Thanks for the Wikipedia link making it apparent you don't think for yourself.

[Sewer]

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They were also both fascistic totalitarian megalomaniacs who started wars that killed lots of people.

What war did Lincoln start?

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

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They were also both fascistic totalitarian megalomaniacs who started wars that killed lots of people.

What war did Lincoln start?

The war in which he invaded a sovereign nation for no other reason than his own ego and political career.

[Sewer]

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They were also both fascistic totalitarian megalomaniacs who started wars that killed lots of people.

What war did Lincoln start?

The war in which he invaded a sovereign nation for no other reason than his own ego and political career.

What nation?

[Mr.Phips]

There is a good chance he wont even make it to 2012 because we will win back the house and sen in 2010 and if we elect Republicans who care more about american than being pc, obama will be impeached for treason.  there is going to be hell to pay for his cottling of hassan and the moslem extremists. (check out the WND story about how hassan served as an "adviser" to obama on the war on terror.)

But if the democRATs weasle thier way out of that some how then obama will be landslided out of office like President Ronald Reagan did with 2 straight democRAT pussy types carter and mondale.  What we have now is a carter with dark skin.  And unlike carter he is corrupt on top of it.  More of this will come out as we control congress and get to hold hearings into his many shananningans.

So R in 2012.  Just pray its a conservative and not some RINO

The Senate? 

[Psychic Octopus]

There is a good chance he wont even make it to 2012 because we will win back the house and sen in 2010 and if we elect Republicans who care more about american than being pc, obama will be impeached for treason.  there is going to be hell to pay for his cottling of hassan and the moslem extremists. (check out the WND story about how hassan served as an "adviser" to obama on the war on terror.)

But if the democRATs weasle thier way out of that some how then obama will be landslided out of office like President Ronald Reagan did with 2 straight democRAT pussy types carter and mondale.  What we have now is a carter with dark skin.  And unlike carter he is corrupt on top of it.  More of this will come out as we control congress and get to hold hearings into his many shananningans.

So R in 2012.  Just pray its a conservative and not some RINO

The Senate? 

Don't listen to Coburn, he's a troll and a fake poster.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

[quote author=Sewer Socialist link=topic=104667.msg2219335#msg2219335
What nation?
[/quote]
Lincoln invaded the C.S.A.

Just like Hitler invaded Poland.

[Sewer]

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Lincoln invaded the C.S.A.

Just like Hitler invaded Poland.

The C.S.A. invaded the U.S.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

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Lincoln invaded the C.S.A.

Just like Hitler invaded Poland.

The C.S.A. invaded the U.S.

And Poland invaded Germany.

[Sewer]

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Lincoln invaded the C.S.A.

Just like Hitler invaded Poland.

The C.S.A. invaded the U.S.

And Poland invaded Germany.

What?

[President Mitt]

Ah, yes, Pbrower is correct, since the KKK flourished under Coolidge, Coolidge was a bastardly oppressor of minorities, I mean it took twelve years of FDR to give minorities the rights they deserved. I mean FDR was the one that granted Native Americans citizenship in 1924, and it was that bastard Coolidge that locked up thousands of innocent German, Italian and Japanese Americans. While Coolidge appointed every Klan member under the sun in his administration, there were certainly no KKK members in the great FDR administration. And that evil racist Coolidge was lying when he said that the United States was not just a "White Man's Country."

Geez, Pbrower, I should listen to you more often.