Anti Speculation Bill [On President's Desk]

[Marokai Backbeat]

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Sponsor: Hans

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Again I would like some clarification as to what Section 3 is. Does it create a new secondary FDIC or is going under the same deposit insurance company.

[Vepres]

Eh, six months would be better.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I too would like some clarification on 3, but other than that I like the idea and support this bill. I do apologize to Hans for not getting back to his PM asking for my thoughts, because I'm really adverse to PMing people

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I too would like some clarification on 3, but other than that I like the idea and support this bill. I do apologize to Hans for not getting back to his PM asking for my thoughts, because I'm really adverse to PMing people

I suppose then the one I just sent you with a prelimnary draft of my bill will suffer the same fate. Good think I cc'ed it to PS, NiK, Lief and BK.

[Franzl]

1% of the volume? I don't think that's very fair, why not just tax profits?

[Hans-im-Glück]

I want to explain my thoughts to make this proposal and answer the questions.

Template for this proposal is the so-called "Tobin Tax". The goal is not getting more money for the state, but it will make criminal short-time financial speculation unprofitable and want to stabilize the financial system.

To point 3:

It would be working like a insurance for all people and companies who have money in the Bank. When a big Bank crash the normal insurance of the bank is not enough. Then we can say to the people this was bad luck, but no government can hold this pressure. In the end the taxpayer must pay all. All money we get from the speculation Tax we can use for this Deposit insurance. Then the money is safe at the bank even if the bank goes bankrupt and not the common man must pay for it.

to Franzl:

No tax is fair, but is it fair when the common taxpayer must pay for incompetent banker. It's better to take the money from this people which are to blame. You ask why not only for the profits. I want to make financial speculation unprofitable and want to stabilize the financial system. This works only when we make the tax on the volume and when he wait the blocking period is over, he needs no tax to pay.

to point 1.1:

I think one year is the best, but this is no Bible. I can live with 9 month too.

[afleitch]

I oppose the Tobin Tax, so I will oppose this.

[Franzl]

I oppose the Tobin Tax, so I will oppose this.

^^, same here. I don't like this at all.

[MaxQue]

I have a problem with playing with the stock market like that

1 year is way too long and I don't like Article 3, which is protectionist and could hurt Atlasian businesses if foreign countries decides to do the same thing.

[Hans-im-Glück]

I have a problem with playing with the stock market like that

1 year is way too long and I don't like Article 3, which is protectionist and could hurt Atlasian businesses if foreign countries decides to do the same thing.

I find 1 year the best time for it, but this is matter of negotiation

I don't see that Article 3 is protectionist. We can only make laws for Atlasia and it would also all foreign customers benefit when a bank goes bankrupt.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I am afraid I will have to oppose this as well. Sorry Hans. I just think that for one it will hamper our economy and provide little meaningfull reforms to the root causes of the problems. Kind of like Sarbanes-Oxley, a bill which its debatable how effective it was in preventing corruption but the one thing it did well was to drive American companies to go public in Britain and thus it benefited the London STock Exchange at our expense.

I don't like the idea of moral hazzard. There has to be some kind of responsibility in the market and this proposal could lead to a lot more risk and in the end the taxpayers will be on the hook. As you said yourself the tax is meant not to raise revenue but to discourage short selling. There are better ways to do that and even still Short selling was not a real big problem. It became a problem as the sh**t hit the fan but in and of itself its not a root cause. Credit Default swaps caused much more trouble in the big picture and currently I am working on a bill that will either restrict or eliminate the CDS market. Other things that caused problems was the lack of oversight, opaque financial statements caused by the movement of liquid assets into more volatile and less liquid securities like Stocks, Mortgage backed securites, etc.

Currently though I am waiting for feedback from the following people on SEction 1 before I proceed, Marokai Blue, NiK, Lief, BK, and PS. So if any of you are on this list read it and respond please. Section 1 deals mainly with reforming the current Resulution Authority. It transfers many of the actions from the President to the SoIA which wasn't around when the original bill was passed in 2008 and it involves the Game Moderator which was vacant at the time as well.

[Hans-im-Glück]

NCY, you do not have to apologize if you dislike this proposal. In a democracy , there are different opinions.

The idea of the proposal is to make short sales and foreign exchange manipulations less profitable. I think my proposal is a relatively simple way to achieve this. This is a very big problem, because only a hand full of people can with manipulation in the stock market or the foreign exchange trade send our, and the rest of the world economy, into a chaos. When this happen, then it is to late to act and then it becomes more expensive for us all.

[Hash]

I'm rather unclear with some of the language of this bill.

I might accept it with a 0.5% rate and a period of 6 months or so, and I don't like the protectionist undertones of Section 2.

I motion to strike section 2.

[Vepres]

Maybe only tax those who sell shares within 48 hours of purchase.

In fact, while we're on the subject, I'd like to address a similar issue. I forget the term used to reference it, but essentially people have designed computers to buy a large number of shares in a company it determines to be profitable and analyzes the best time to sell it. Usually this within a matter of hours, at times even seconds. Just to bring this to the Senate's attention.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Maybe only tax those who sell shares within 48 hours of purchase.

In fact, while we're on the subject, I'd like to address a similar issue. I forget the term used to reference it, but essentially people have designed computers to buy a large number of shares in a company it determines to be profitable and analyzes the best time to sell it. Usually this within a matter of hours, at times even seconds. Just to bring this to the Senate's attention.

That arrose in the 80's and it came to attention in 1987 when the market crashed. Also there are limits set that after the market drops a certain amount, they are shut off early in the trading day to prevent further losses. But its not really a big issue. If you smooth out the market and reduce risk then short selling isn't an issue except in rare occasions. So I would prefer to not to meddle in something that shows the side effects but isn't the problem. I have no problem banning naked short selling and even all short selling on a short term basis in the middle of a crisis but other then that I would prefer not to mess with it.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I motion to strike section 2.

I'll highlight this for Hans. He can now accept it as friendly or reject it. I know it was a little confusing for me at first, but if you reject it, Hans, then it goes to a vote, if not, then it's automatically amended if no one else objects over a 24 hour period.

So I'll give this some time.

And for the record, a .5% tax and shortening the time period, as well as striking some other elements of the bill, would be fine with me when it comes to a vote. But I'm not sure if something like that would pass the other Senators..

[MaxQue]

I have a problem with playing with the stock market like that

1 year is way too long and I don't like Article 3, which is protectionist and could hurt Atlasian businesses if foreign countries decides to do the same thing.

I find 1 year the best time for it, but this is matter of negotiation

I don't see that Article 3 is protectionist. We can only make laws for Atlasia and it would also all foreign customers benefit when a bank goes bankrupt.

I wrote 3 but I wanted to write 2.

[Hans-im-Glück]

I'm rather unclear with some of the language of this bill.

I might accept it with a 0.5% rate and a period of 6 months or so, and I don't like the protectionist undertones of Section 2.

I motion to strike section 2.

I see that many senators have a problem with Article 2.  I will delete this article, it is important to me to limit the short selling and the stock market manipulations. However, I find this passage very important and it would be an important instrument to fight against manipulations at the foreign exchange market. But I see that I am alone with this opinion.

With a period of 6 month I have no problem. We can change it and when I think more about it are 6 month enough.

A rate of 0.5% is a little bit low. This is the minimum where the law would work yet.


This is the new version of my proposal:

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[Franzl]

I will vote in favor of this amendment because it isn't as bad as the original proposal, but I still intend to block passage of the bill.

[MaxQue]

''Month'' needs an ''s'' in the section 1.2.

[Hans-im-Glück]

''Month'' needs an ''s'' in the section 1.2.

corrected

[Marokai Backbeat]

Okay, a little house cleaning on this bill. I'm going to overlook Hash's proposal considering that Hans introduced one of his own to deal with his issues. And since no one's complained, I'm also going to consider the bill amended.

Debate continues for a short while before a vote, and I apologize for being away from home for the day and being exhausted.

[Badger]

I oppose the Tobin Tax, so I will oppose this.

^^, same here. I don't like this at all.

May a lowly non-senator ask why?

[Marokai Backbeat]

I encourage Afleitch to answer Badger because I too am curious. But I see no reason to let this bill sit around any longer. I now open the final vote on the following bill. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

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Aye