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Question: Will Kucinich challenge Obama?
Yes   -23 (39%)
No   -22 (37.3%)
Maybe   -14 (23.7%)
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Total Voters: 59

Author Topic: Will Kucinich challenge Obama?  (Read 4245 times)
nhmagic
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« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2009, 09:08:58 pm »
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Obama is the most liberal president this nation has ever had.  I don't know where you're getting this idea that he has a pragmatic personality.  Nothing in his past or present fosters that notion about him.  He has never once shown any inclination to be a centrist, with the exception of a few times during the presidential campaign.  He even voted against Justice Roberts.  In 10 long months Obama has:

-tried to create an American socialist state, via healthcare
-given terrorists rights, and put them in criminal court
-spent more money than any single president in the history of this nation
-apologized for America in every single country he's visited, most recently declining to say whether he felt that dropping the atomic bomb on Japan was the right decision
-sent the national guard to protect abortion mills after George Tiller the Baby Killer's death, while telling us all not to "jump to conclusions" regarding terrorist Hasan

I don't know where the pragmatism has revealed itself.  He has not sacrificed one single policy position or point. I don't think he even has the ability to be pragmatic.
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Eraserhead
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« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2009, 01:52:39 am »
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Hopefully

Obama is the most liberal President since FDR.

lol

Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Clinton and Truman were more liberal then Obama?

Johnson certainly was. You could make a case for Carter too.
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Senator Libertas
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« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2009, 01:56:15 am »
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Hopefully

Obama is the most liberal President since FDR.

lol

Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Clinton and Truman were more liberal then Obama?

Johnson certainly was. You could make a case for Carter too.
How so with Carter?
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The Mikado
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« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2009, 02:38:12 am »
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I'd say it's pretty undeniable that LBJ was the most left-wing post-war American president.

Of course, there were a lot of people in 1968 who would be horrified and outraged that that statement could be made in 2009.



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« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2009, 11:34:48 pm »
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Obama is the most liberal president this nation has ever had.  I don't know where you're getting this idea that he has a pragmatic personality.  Nothing in his past or present fosters that notion about him.  He has never once shown any inclination to be a centrist, with the exception of a few times during the presidential campaign.  He even voted against Justice Roberts.  In 10 long months Obama has:

-tried to create an American socialist state, via healthcare
-given terrorists rights, and put them in criminal court
-spent more money than any single president in the history of this nation
-apologized for America in every single country he's visited, most recently declining to say whether he felt that dropping the atomic bomb on Japan was the right decision
-sent the national guard to protect abortion mills after George Tiller the Baby Killer's death, while telling us all not to "jump to conclusions" regarding terrorist Hasan

I don't know where the pragmatism has revealed itself.  He has not sacrificed one single policy position or point. I don't think he even has the ability to be pragmatic.


Obama has done nothing, unfortunately, to move us toward a more Socialist health care system.  He couldn't even deliver a "robust public option".

How is moving people who have not been convicted of a crime into a criminal court, as opposed to a military court, Socialism?

Could you explain what you mean when you say Obama has spent more money in his 10 months as President than any President in U.S. history?  Has he spent more than Roosevelt, per capita?  I realize this is what Glenn Beck says is true...so you definitely have that argument in your arsenal.  But you might want to at least give some sort of mental ascent to the notion that other people, and not just liberals, reckon your definition of "spending" might be a little broad.  And again -- how is it that spending necessarily means Socialism anyway?

Can you cite one example of President Obama apologizing for any American action?  As to the atom bomb, can you name one sitting President in the last 40 years to officially declare the dropping of the a-bomb to have been the right decision?  When did Ronald Reagan travel to Japan and say this?  I remember George H.W. Bush vomiting on the Japanese ambassador, but I don't seem to recall him ever telling the Japanese -- or the press corps following him in Japan -- that we did the right thing in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  (We did, of course.  But that diplomacy thingie yanno...)

Wait.  When did the POTUS call out the national guard to protect women's clinics from violence?  (I am not sure what an "abortion mill" is.  I know of women's clinics and hospitals where abortions are sometimes performed.)  Frankly, if he did call out the Guard for this...it was a good move.  What on earth, however, does this have to do with the shootings at Fort Hood?  Are you suggesting the President call out the National Guard to...erm...uh...well...I mean...that's sorta the whole idea of Fort Hood.  Soldiers and all.  Now, the fact that he told us not to jump to conclusions was probably because he didn't want well-armed patriot militias to get distracted from their true mission -- you know -- the one about refreshing the tree of liberty from time to time.  If they got all hot and bothered forming lynch mobs and going after anyone and everyone in a turban or wearing a veil, they would completely forget about the need to overthrow the New World Order the Democrats and the Illuminati are conspiring to bring out.

But even so, Az...not seeing anything even remotely resembling Socialism here.  Like I say...I wish.


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Хahar
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« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2009, 01:36:46 am »
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That's cause you're a socialist trying to cover up for him.
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The idea of parodying the preceding Atlasian's postings is laughable, of course, but not for reasons one might expect.
nhmagic
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« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2009, 02:14:48 pm »
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Obama is the most liberal president this nation has ever had.  I don't know where you're getting this idea that he has a pragmatic personality.  Nothing in his past or present fosters that notion about him.  He has never once shown any inclination to be a centrist, with the exception of a few times during the presidential campaign.  He even voted against Justice Roberts.  In 10 long months Obama has:

-tried to create an American socialist state, via healthcare
-given terrorists rights, and put them in criminal court
-spent more money than any single president in the history of this nation
-apologized for America in every single country he's visited, most recently declining to say whether he felt that dropping the atomic bomb on Japan was the right decisioSpenn
-sent the national guard to protect abortion mills after George Tiller the Baby Killer's death, while telling us all not to "jump to conclusions" regarding terrorist Hasan

I don't know where the pragmatism has revealed itself.  He has not sacrificed one single policy position or point. I don't think he even has the ability to be pragmatic.


Obama has done nothing, unfortunately, to move us toward a more Socialist health care system.  He couldn't even deliver a "robust public option".

How is moving people who have not been convicted of a crime into a criminal court, as opposed to a military court, Socialism?

Could you explain what you mean when you say Obama has spent more money in his 10 months as President than any President in U.S. history?  Has he spent more than Roosevelt, per capita?  I realize this is what Glenn Beck says is true...so you definitely have that argument in your arsenal.  But you might want to at least give some sort of mental ascent to the notion that other people, and not just liberals, reckon your definition of "spending" might be a little broad.  And again -- how is it that spending necessarily means Socialism anyway?

Can you cite one example of President Obama apologizing for any American action?  As to the atom bomb, can you name one sitting President in the last 40 years to officially declare the dropping of the a-bomb to have been the right decision?  When did Ronald Reagan travel to Japan and say this?  I remember George H.W. Bush vomiting on the Japanese ambassador, but I don't seem to recall him ever telling the Japanese -- or the press corps following him in Japan -- that we did the right thing in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  (We did, of course.  But that diplomacy thingie yanno...)

Wait.  When did the POTUS call out the national guard to protect women's clinics from violence?  (I am not sure what an "abortion mill" is.  I know of women's clinics and hospitals where abortions are sometimes performed.)  Frankly, if he did call out the Guard for this...it was a good move.  What on earth, however, does this have to do with the shootings at Fort Hood?  Are you suggesting the President call out the National Guard to...erm...uh...well...I mean...that's sorta the whole idea of Fort Hood.  Soldiers and all.  Now, the fact that he told us not to jump to conclusions was probably because he didn't want well-armed patriot militias to get distracted from their true mission -- you know -- the one about refreshing the tree of liberty from time to time.  If they got all hot and bothered forming lynch mobs and going after anyone and everyone in a turban or wearing a veil, they would completely forget about the need to overthrow the New World Order the Democrats and the Illuminati are conspiring to bring out.

But even so, Az...not seeing anything even remotely resembling Socialism here.  Like I say...I wish.



Ok, first of all, you are right, Obama is socialist, but I did not say putting terrorists in criminal court = socialism.  At best the terrorist issue equals lilly-livered pacifism and at worst it is giving aid and comfort to our enemies.

On healthcare, you do you realize that 2000 page Pelosi bill passed the House and they are going to put your "robust public option" back into the bill in conference.  The healthcare bill is another way of making individuals dependent upon the government, both middle class and poor, as the majority of people will lose their private healthcare and be forced upon the government program.  If they do not go onto this program, they will be fined and put into prison.  Pelosi herself has made televised remarks saying that that was a "fair" penalty.  Only the mega wealthy will have access to private insurance because it will be practically driven out of the market unless it caters to that crowd. 

Spending money in and of itself is not socialism, unless you add the tax component to it, and then it becomes voila! redistribution of wealth from the middle class and rich to the democrat minority groups (poor, black, gay, etc.).  You could make the argument that all taxes are socialist - but by the time Obama is finished, our country will have the single highest tax rates of all western nations.  By the way, Obama hasn't just spent more than each individual president, he has spent more than all of them combined.  Do a simple google search on that one - hundreds of articles at your fingertips.

UN Apology in September (and there's just about 1 per each country he's visited):
"Part of this was due to opposition to specific policies, and a belief that on certain critical issues, America has acted unilaterally, without regard for the interests of others. This has fed an almost reflexive anti-Americanism, which too often has served as an excuse for our collective inaction...America has too often been selective in its promotion of democracy."

1. An abortion mill is a women's "clinic", planned parenthood center, etc.
2. He ordered the national guard out after the murder of George Tiller the Baby Killer (60,000 abortions)
3. It has to do with Fort Hood because of the passion with which he defends these left wing causes over the defense of our nation.  At the Fort Hood massacre speech, he first, had to thank people from the Interior Department and a "shout out to Dr. Joe, medicine pro".  Then he had to tell the conference that he was going to follow up on the native issues he was supposed to speak about and that it was a "top priority".  Finally, after two entire minutes of that, he was able to get to Fort Hood, in which he then tells us not to jump to conclusions. 

Gee, I wonder what he is passionate about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AJ5GnAUDQc ?
or as passionately as he was when he jumped to a conclusion to say Officer Crowley "was probably acting stupid" when he arrested his buddy Gates?

Obama during the campaign asked us to judge him by the company he surrounds himself with.  Here's a few of them, all czars:

Van Jones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6xELjQPsuw
Cass Sunstein: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoiHIbwRhSo
Carol Browner: an avowed socialist
John Holdren: another socialist
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rebeltarian
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« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2009, 05:51:34 pm »
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Of all the Democrats, I think I've come to admire Dennis Kucinich the most.  He has a glowing personality, isn't a surly elitist or a union sleezeball and treats everyone with respect.  He seems to embody what compassionate liberalism can be at it's finest.  I don't understand why so many people thinks he's a nutjob, he's the Ron Paul of the left--he tells the truth, like it or not, and if the cold truth is "nutty", well then so be it.  I for one prefer truth to "civil political discourse".

Anyways, I don't think he'll run beyond the primaries if at all.  He's always been supportive of and loyal to his party despite his candidness and fringe positions.  He knows his best shot at influencing the outcome of things is to continue his activism from his congressional seat. 
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« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2009, 06:00:44 pm »
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Kucinich may be the nominal challenge from the party's fringe that every sitting president faces, but it will be half-hearted and focused more on raising awareness for whatever he's promoting in the House than an actual campaign to unseat Obama.

I doubt it, though.
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« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2009, 09:30:44 pm »
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Obama is the most liberal president this nation has ever had.  I don't know where you're getting this idea that he has a pragmatic personality.  Nothing in his past or present fosters that notion about him.  He has never once shown any inclination to be a centrist, with the exception of a few times during the presidential campaign.  He even voted against Justice Roberts.  In 10 long months Obama has:

-tried to create an American socialist state, via healthcare
-given terrorists rights, and put them in criminal court
-spent more money than any single president in the history of this nation
-apologized for America in every single country he's visited, most recently declining to say whether he felt that dropping the atomic bomb on Japan was the right decisioSpenn
-sent the national guard to protect abortion mills after George Tiller the Baby Killer's death, while telling us all not to "jump to conclusions" regarding terrorist Hasan

I don't know where the pragmatism has revealed itself.  He has not sacrificed one single policy position or point. I don't think he even has the ability to be pragmatic.


Obama has done nothing, unfortunately, to move us toward a more Socialist health care system.  He couldn't even deliver a "robust public option".

How is moving people who have not been convicted of a crime into a criminal court, as opposed to a military court, Socialism?

Could you explain what you mean when you say Obama has spent more money in his 10 months as President than any President in U.S. history?  Has he spent more than Roosevelt, per capita?  I realize this is what Glenn Beck says is true...so you definitely have that argument in your arsenal.  But you might want to at least give some sort of mental ascent to the notion that other people, and not just liberals, reckon your definition of "spending" might be a little broad.  And again -- how is it that spending necessarily means Socialism anyway?

Can you cite one example of President Obama apologizing for any American action?  As to the atom bomb, can you name one sitting President in the last 40 years to officially declare the dropping of the a-bomb to have been the right decision?  When did Ronald Reagan travel to Japan and say this?  I remember George H.W. Bush vomiting on the Japanese ambassador, but I don't seem to recall him ever telling the Japanese -- or the press corps following him in Japan -- that we did the right thing in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  (We did, of course.  But that diplomacy thingie yanno...)

Wait.  When did the POTUS call out the national guard to protect women's clinics from violence?  (I am not sure what an "abortion mill" is.  I know of women's clinics and hospitals where abortions are sometimes performed.)  Frankly, if he did call out the Guard for this...it was a good move.  What on earth, however, does this have to do with the shootings at Fort Hood?  Are you suggesting the President call out the National Guard to...erm...uh...well...I mean...that's sorta the whole idea of Fort Hood.  Soldiers and all.  Now, the fact that he told us not to jump to conclusions was probably because he didn't want well-armed patriot militias to get distracted from their true mission -- you know -- the one about refreshing the tree of liberty from time to time.  If they got all hot and bothered forming lynch mobs and going after anyone and everyone in a turban or wearing a veil, they would completely forget about the need to overthrow the New World Order the Democrats and the Illuminati are conspiring to bring out.

But even so, Az...not seeing anything even remotely resembling Socialism here.  Like I say...I wish.



Ok, first of all, you are right, Obama is socialist, but I did not say putting terrorists in criminal court = socialism.  At best the terrorist issue equals lilly-livered pacifism and at worst it is giving aid and comfort to our enemies.

On healthcare, you do you realize that 2000 page Pelosi bill passed the House and they are going to put your "robust public option" back into the bill in conference.  The healthcare bill is another way of making individuals dependent upon the government, both middle class and poor, as the majority of people will lose their private healthcare and be forced upon the government program.  If they do not go onto this program, they will be fined and put into prison.  Pelosi herself has made televised remarks saying that that was a "fair" penalty.  Only the mega wealthy will have access to private insurance because it will be practically driven out of the market unless it caters to that crowd. 

Spending money in and of itself is not socialism, unless you add the tax component to it, and then it becomes voila! redistribution of wealth from the middle class and rich to the democrat minority groups (poor, black, gay, etc.).  You could make the argument that all taxes are socialist - but by the time Obama is finished, our country will have the single highest tax rates of all western nations.  By the way, Obama hasn't just spent more than each individual president, he has spent more than all of them combined.  Do a simple google search on that one - hundreds of articles at your fingertips.

UN Apology in September (and there's just about 1 per each country he's visited):
"Part of this was due to opposition to specific policies, and a belief that on certain critical issues, America has acted unilaterally, without regard for the interests of others. This has fed an almost reflexive anti-Americanism, which too often has served as an excuse for our collective inaction...America has too often been selective in its promotion of democracy."

1. An abortion mill is a women's "clinic", planned parenthood center, etc.
2. He ordered the national guard out after the murder of George Tiller the Baby Killer (60,000 abortions)
3. It has to do with Fort Hood because of the passion with which he defends these left wing causes over the defense of our nation.  At the Fort Hood massacre speech, he first, had to thank people from the Interior Department and a "shout out to Dr. Joe, medicine pro".  Then he had to tell the conference that he was going to follow up on the native issues he was supposed to speak about and that it was a "top priority".  Finally, after two entire minutes of that, he was able to get to Fort Hood, in which he then tells us not to jump to conclusions. 

Gee, I wonder what he is passionate about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AJ5GnAUDQc ?
or as passionately as he was when he jumped to a conclusion to say Officer Crowley "was probably acting stupid" when he arrested his buddy Gates?

Obama during the campaign asked us to judge him by the company he surrounds himself with.  Here's a few of them, all czars:

Van Jones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6xELjQPsuw
Cass Sunstein: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoiHIbwRhSo
Carol Browner: an avowed socialist
John Holdren: another socialist

Oh AZMagic. I could spend hours, nay days, pointing out line by line byline why youy are factually incorrect and blinded by your rampant extremisism from reality.

Suffice to say, Jsojourner is completely right, and you are , as usual, an ignorant asshat.
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Your self-serving slacktivism is propelling America to new heights.
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« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2009, 07:54:09 pm »
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I really don't know why he would.  Obama is the most liberal President since FDR.  Kucinich should realize that once you get into the Oval Office, things will never move as quickly as some would like, in particular, as quickly as some extreme leftists would like in this case.

Obama is as good as liberals are going to get for some time.
i don't mean to be rude, but that's asanine. Johnson, Truman, Kennedy,Eisenhower, Nixon, all were more liberal than Obama.
if Kucinich DOES run, then i'll support him. but i doubt he will
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« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2009, 08:07:53 pm »
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     Probably, though it's not like it will actually matter whether he runs or not.
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« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2009, 08:16:59 pm »
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I really don't know why he would.  Obama is the most liberal President since FDR.  Kucinich should realize that once you get into the Oval Office, things will never move as quickly as some would like, in particular, as quickly as some extreme leftists would like in this case.

Obama is as good as liberals are going to get for some time.
i don't mean to be rude, but that's asanine. Johnson, Truman, Kennedy,Eisenhower, Nixon, all were more liberal than Obama.if Kucinich DOES run, then i'll support him. but i doubt he will

I don't mean to be rude, but are you on something?
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« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2009, 08:28:56 pm »
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I really don't know why he would.  Obama is the most liberal President since FDR.  Kucinich should realize that once you get into the Oval Office, things will never move as quickly as some would like, in particular, as quickly as some extreme leftists would like in this case.

Obama is as good as liberals are going to get for some time.
i don't mean to be rude, but that's asanine. Johnson, Truman, Kennedy,Eisenhower, Nixon, all were more liberal than Obama.if Kucinich DOES run, then i'll support him. but i doubt he will

I don't mean to be rude, but are you on something?

Are you on something?
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« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2009, 08:34:42 pm »
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I'm dissapointed with Obama.

Still, he was the best candidate in 2008.
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« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2009, 09:27:55 pm »
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Now for a question...could he actually pose a threat?

Not saying he could win, but would he actually be able to make something of this or would it just be 0.5% in where ever again?
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« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2009, 11:25:50 pm »
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Obama is the most liberal president this nation has ever had.  I don't know where you're getting this idea that he has a pragmatic personality.  Nothing in his past or present fosters that notion about him.  He has never once shown any inclination to be a centrist, with the exception of a few times during the presidential campaign.  He even voted against Justice Roberts.  In 10 long months Obama has:

-tried to create an American socialist state, via healthcare
-given terrorists rights, and put them in criminal court
-spent more money than any single president in the history of this nation
-apologized for America in every single country he's visited, most recently declining to say whether he felt that dropping the atomic bomb on Japan was the right decisioSpenn
-sent the national guard to protect abortion mills after George Tiller the Baby Killer's death, while telling us all not to "jump to conclusions" regarding terrorist Hasan

I don't know where the pragmatism has revealed itself.  He has not sacrificed one single policy position or point. I don't think he even has the ability to be pragmatic.


Obama has done nothing, unfortunately, to move us toward a more Socialist health care system.  He couldn't even deliver a "robust public option".

How is moving people who have not been convicted of a crime into a criminal court, as opposed to a military court, Socialism?

Could you explain what you mean when you say Obama has spent more money in his 10 months as President than any President in U.S. history?  Has he spent more than Roosevelt, per capita?  I realize this is what Glenn Beck says is true...so you definitely have that argument in your arsenal.  But you might want to at least give some sort of mental ascent to the notion that other people, and not just liberals, reckon your definition of "spending" might be a little broad.  And again -- how is it that spending necessarily means Socialism anyway?

Can you cite one example of President Obama apologizing for any American action?  As to the atom bomb, can you name one sitting President in the last 40 years to officially declare the dropping of the a-bomb to have been the right decision?  When did Ronald Reagan travel to Japan and say this?  I remember George H.W. Bush vomiting on the Japanese ambassador, but I don't seem to recall him ever telling the Japanese -- or the press corps following him in Japan -- that we did the right thing in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  (We did, of course.  But that diplomacy thingie yanno...)

Wait.  When did the POTUS call out the national guard to protect women's clinics from violence?  (I am not sure what an "abortion mill" is.  I know of women's clinics and hospitals where abortions are sometimes performed.)  Frankly, if he did call out the Guard for this...it was a good move.  What on earth, however, does this have to do with the shootings at Fort Hood?  Are you suggesting the President call out the National Guard to...erm...uh...well...I mean...that's sorta the whole idea of Fort Hood.  Soldiers and all.  Now, the fact that he told us not to jump to conclusions was probably because he didn't want well-armed patriot militias to get distracted from their true mission -- you know -- the one about refreshing the tree of liberty from time to time.  If they got all hot and bothered forming lynch mobs and going after anyone and everyone in a turban or wearing a veil, they would completely forget about the need to overthrow the New World Order the Democrats and the Illuminati are conspiring to bring out.

But even so, Az...not seeing anything even remotely resembling Socialism here.  Like I say...I wish.



Ok, first of all, you are right, Obama is socialist, but I did not say putting terrorists in criminal court = socialism.  At best the terrorist issue equals lilly-livered pacifism and at worst it is giving aid and comfort to our enemies.

On healthcare, you do you realize that 2000 page Pelosi bill passed the House and they are going to put your "robust public option" back into the bill in conference.  The healthcare bill is another way of making individuals dependent upon the government, both middle class and poor, as the majority of people will lose their private healthcare and be forced upon the government program.  If they do not go onto this program, they will be fined and put into prison.  Pelosi herself has made televised remarks saying that that was a "fair" penalty.  Only the mega wealthy will have access to private insurance because it will be practically driven out of the market unless it caters to that crowd. 

Spending money in and of itself is not socialism, unless you add the tax component to it, and then it becomes voila! redistribution of wealth from the middle class and rich to the democrat minority groups (poor, black, gay, etc.).  You could make the argument that all taxes are socialist - but by the time Obama is finished, our country will have the single highest tax rates of all western nations.  By the way, Obama hasn't just spent more than each individual president, he has spent more than all of them combined.  Do a simple google search on that one - hundreds of articles at your fingertips.

UN Apology in September (and there's just about 1 per each country he's visited):
"Part of this was due to opposition to specific policies, and a belief that on certain critical issues, America has acted unilaterally, without regard for the interests of others. This has fed an almost reflexive anti-Americanism, which too often has served as an excuse for our collective inaction...America has too often been selective in its promotion of democracy."

1. An abortion mill is a women's "clinic", planned parenthood center, etc.
2. He ordered the national guard out after the murder of George Tiller the Baby Killer (60,000 abortions)
3. It has to do with Fort Hood because of the passion with which he defends these left wing causes over the defense of our nation.  At the Fort Hood massacre speech, he first, had to thank people from the Interior Department and a "shout out to Dr. Joe, medicine pro".  Then he had to tell the conference that he was going to follow up on the native issues he was supposed to speak about and that it was a "top priority".  Finally, after two entire minutes of that, he was able to get to Fort Hood, in which he then tells us not to jump to conclusions. 

Gee, I wonder what he is passionate about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AJ5GnAUDQc ?
or as passionately as he was when he jumped to a conclusion to say Officer Crowley "was probably acting stupid" when he arrested his buddy Gates?

Obama during the campaign asked us to judge him by the company he surrounds himself with.  Here's a few of them, all czars:

Van Jones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6xELjQPsuw
Cass Sunstein: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoiHIbwRhSo
Carol Browner: an avowed socialist
John Holdren: another socialist

Oh AZMagic. I could spend hours, nay days, pointing out line by line byline why youy are factually incorrect and blinded by your rampant extremisism from reality.

Suffice to say, Jsojourner is completely right, and you are , as usual, an ignorant asshat.
Then do it wuss (two can play the name calling game).  I suggest you get typing.
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« Reply #42 on: November 23, 2009, 01:52:06 am »
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Obama is the most liberal president this nation has ever had.  I don't know where you're getting this idea that he has a pragmatic personality.  Nothing in his past or present fosters that notion about him.  He has never once shown any inclination to be a centrist, with the exception of a few times during the presidential campaign.  He even voted against Justice Roberts.  In 10 long months Obama has:

-tried to create an American socialist state, via healthcare
-given terrorists rights, and put them in criminal court
-spent more money than any single president in the history of this nation
-apologized for America in every single country he's visited, most recently declining to say whether he felt that dropping the atomic bomb on Japan was the right decision
-sent the national guard to protect abortion mills after George Tiller the Baby Killer's death, while telling us all not to "jump to conclusions" regarding terrorist Hasan

I don't know where the pragmatism has revealed itself.  He has not sacrificed one single policy position or point. I don't think he even has the ability to be pragmatic.

wrong wrong wrong wrong x 10
 months Obama has:

-tried to create an American socialist state, via healthcare
oh yeah  the dreaded Socialist state when you call obama a socialist why don't you just come out in say it you really think he is a communist after all that's what you are really trying to imply  when yo call obama a socialist scare people into think he is a communist.  you really think he is trying to form a post -apocalyptic  Communist fascist socialist Stalinist Government that sends people of to the goologs. well I'm sorry to burst your f@#king bubble pal  but that just isn't the case, to prove that point lets take a look at some of the other country's that have Government involved in there Healthcare, Japan,  Iceland the Republic of Ireland,Great Britain "UK" Israel , Italy, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Sweden, South Korea, Finland  just to name a few. none of the country's I just mentioned are Communist Fascist post Apocalyptic Dictatorships in fact most of them our Allies of the Untied States. also  America already spends more on Healthcare then any industrialized nation on the planet and we get less Results.

 

-spent more money than any single president in the history of this nation

that's a totally unsubstantiated claim, I don't know which president spent the most but If I was going to guess it would probably be FDR, yes Obama has increased the national debt significantly 1.4  trillion most of that he had to spend to on TARRP / the stimulus you have to remember most of the money he has spent was money he had to spend.  you have to remember obama literally inherited the worst Economy  since the great depression. if your going to talk spending you have to remember that if was under the eight years of  George W Bush the national debt doubled we went from a 5 trillion dollar national debt to a 10 Trillion  on dollar national debt, to be fair bush was in office for eight years and obama has only been in office for one. if your going to make the unsubstituted claim the obama has spent more money in than any president in history even though he has only been for less then one year, then the burden of proof is on you to provide some evidence to back it up. I hope when it comes to the issue of spending you will take of your partisan hat and realize that George W Bush and the Republicans are as much at fault as Obama and the Democrats. 

it sounds to me like you just wanna blame everything on obama but not to sound like a broken record obama inherited the greatest economic crisis since the great Depression, the stock market crashed in September early October of last year and Obama was inaugurated in January of 09 I think when it comes to the economy everybody should cut Obama a little bit of a break.

the economic problems we face in this country can not be blamed on just democratic  of republican politicans alone. it seems as if our whole American way life is to blame for the problems we face right now.




« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 04:23:37 pm by MASSHOLE »Logged

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« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2009, 07:48:51 am »
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He won't be running. Obama has really locked up all of the institutional support financially, and Kucinich didn't do all that well on his two tries. In addition, that last run set him up for an accusation that he wasn't really paying attention to his district.
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« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2009, 09:02:51 am »
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Hopefully

Obama is the most liberal President since FDR.

lol

Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Clinton and Truman were more liberal then Obama?

LBJ was IMHO
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« Reply #45 on: November 23, 2009, 11:43:30 pm »
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He won't be running. Obama has really locked up all of the institutional support financially, and Kucinich didn't do all that well on his two tries. In addition, that last run set him up for an accusation that he wasn't really paying attention to his district.

Yeah, but he still won his primary resoundingly (to my disappointment).

Welcome to the forum, fellow Ohio Dem!
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« Reply #46 on: November 23, 2009, 11:48:25 pm »
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Obama is the most liberal president this nation has ever had.  I don't know where you're getting this idea that he has a pragmatic personality.  Nothing in his past or present fosters that notion about him.  He has never once shown any inclination to be a centrist, with the exception of a few times during the presidential campaign.  He even voted against Justice Roberts.  In 10 long months Obama has:

-tried to create an American socialist state, via healthcare
-given terrorists rights, and put them in criminal court
-spent more money than any single president in the history of this nation
-apologized for America in every single country he's visited, most recently declining to say whether he felt that dropping the atomic bomb on Japan was the right decisioSpenn
-sent the national guard to protect abortion mills after George Tiller the Baby Killer's death, while telling us all not to "jump to conclusions" regarding terrorist Hasan

I don't know where the pragmatism has revealed itself.  He has not sacrificed one single policy position or point. I don't think he even has the ability to be pragmatic.


Obama has done nothing, unfortunately, to move us toward a more Socialist health care system.  He couldn't even deliver a "robust public option".

How is moving people who have not been convicted of a crime into a criminal court, as opposed to a military court, Socialism?

Could you explain what you mean when you say Obama has spent more money in his 10 months as President than any President in U.S. history?  Has he spent more than Roosevelt, per capita?  I realize this is what Glenn Beck says is true...so you definitely have that argument in your arsenal.  But you might want to at least give some sort of mental ascent to the notion that other people, and not just liberals, reckon your definition of "spending" might be a little broad.  And again -- how is it that spending necessarily means Socialism anyway?

Can you cite one example of President Obama apologizing for any American action?  As to the atom bomb, can you name one sitting President in the last 40 years to officially declare the dropping of the a-bomb to have been the right decision?  When did Ronald Reagan travel to Japan and say this?  I remember George H.W. Bush vomiting on the Japanese ambassador, but I don't seem to recall him ever telling the Japanese -- or the press corps following him in Japan -- that we did the right thing in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  (We did, of course.  But that diplomacy thingie yanno...)

Wait.  When did the POTUS call out the national guard to protect women's clinics from violence?  (I am not sure what an "abortion mill" is.  I know of women's clinics and hospitals where abortions are sometimes performed.)  Frankly, if he did call out the Guard for this...it was a good move.  What on earth, however, does this have to do with the shootings at Fort Hood?  Are you suggesting the President call out the National Guard to...erm...uh...well...I mean...that's sorta the whole idea of Fort Hood.  Soldiers and all.  Now, the fact that he told us not to jump to conclusions was probably because he didn't want well-armed patriot militias to get distracted from their true mission -- you know -- the one about refreshing the tree of liberty from time to time.  If they got all hot and bothered forming lynch mobs and going after anyone and everyone in a turban or wearing a veil, they would completely forget about the need to overthrow the New World Order the Democrats and the Illuminati are conspiring to bring out.

But even so, Az...not seeing anything even remotely resembling Socialism here.  Like I say...I wish.



Ok, first of all, you are right, Obama is socialist, but I did not say putting terrorists in criminal court = socialism.  At best the terrorist issue equals lilly-livered pacifism and at worst it is giving aid and comfort to our enemies.

On healthcare, you do you realize that 2000 page Pelosi bill passed the House and they are going to put your "robust public option" back into the bill in conference.  The healthcare bill is another way of making individuals dependent upon the government, both middle class and poor, as the majority of people will lose their private healthcare and be forced upon the government program.  If they do not go onto this program, they will be fined and put into prison.  Pelosi herself has made televised remarks saying that that was a "fair" penalty.  Only the mega wealthy will have access to private insurance because it will be practically driven out of the market unless it caters to that crowd. 

Spending money in and of itself is not socialism, unless you add the tax component to it, and then it becomes voila! redistribution of wealth from the middle class and rich to the democrat minority groups (poor, black, gay, etc.).  You could make the argument that all taxes are socialist - but by the time Obama is finished, our country will have the single highest tax rates of all western nations.  By the way, Obama hasn't just spent more than each individual president, he has spent more than all of them combined.  Do a simple google search on that one - hundreds of articles at your fingertips.

UN Apology in September (and there's just about 1 per each country he's visited):
"Part of this was due to opposition to specific policies, and a belief that on certain critical issues, America has acted unilaterally, without regard for the interests of others. This has fed an almost reflexive anti-Americanism, which too often has served as an excuse for our collective inaction...America has too often been selective in its promotion of democracy."

1. An abortion mill is a women's "clinic", planned parenthood center, etc.
2. He ordered the national guard out after the murder of George Tiller the Baby Killer (60,000 abortions)
3. It has to do with Fort Hood because of the passion with which he defends these left wing causes over the defense of our nation.  At the Fort Hood massacre speech, he first, had to thank people from the Interior Department and a "shout out to Dr. Joe, medicine pro".  Then he had to tell the conference that he was going to follow up on the native issues he was supposed to speak about and that it was a "top priority".  Finally, after two entire minutes of that, he was able to get to Fort Hood, in which he then tells us not to jump to conclusions. 

Gee, I wonder what he is passionate about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AJ5GnAUDQc ?
or as passionately as he was when he jumped to a conclusion to say Officer Crowley "was probably acting stupid" when he arrested his buddy Gates?

Obama during the campaign asked us to judge him by the company he surrounds himself with.  Here's a few of them, all czars:

Van Jones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6xELjQPsuw
Cass Sunstein: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoiHIbwRhSo
Carol Browner: an avowed socialist
John Holdren: another socialist

Oh AZMagic. I could spend hours, nay days, pointing out line by line byline why youy are factually incorrect and blinded by your rampant extremisism from reality.

Suffice to say, Jsojourner is completely right, and you are , as usual, an ignorant asshat.
Then do it wuss (two can play the name calling game).  I suggest you get typing.
Socialism, blah, blah, blah. Marxism, blah, blah, balh.

Why would I spend countless hours explaining point by point why you're wrong when Sojourner basically reiterated me words for me, and at the end you'd still be every bit as narrowminded an extremist as when I started? Utter waste o' time, as are your posts but for the comedy factor.
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« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2009, 01:06:53 am »
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I really don't know why he would.  Obama is the most liberal President since FDR.  Kucinich should realize that once you get into the Oval Office, things will never move as quickly as some would like, in particular, as quickly as some extreme leftists would like in this case.

Obama is as good as liberals are going to get for some time.
i don't mean to be rude, but that's asanine. Johnson, Truman, Kennedy,Eisenhower, Nixon, all were more liberal than Obama.
if Kucinich DOES run, then i'll support him. but i doubt he will

I agree that Obama's basically a moderate and a pragmatist, but I don't necessarily agree with the (widespread) notion that he's more conservative than all those presidents.

It depends a lot on what issue. On social issues like abortion and gay rights, for example, Obama is easily more liberal than all of them, even on gay rights, where he has been relatively cautious.

On civil rights and attitudes towards other cultures, he's far more liberal than any of them. Even Kennedy, who, though not personally prejudiced, was fairly cautious about supporting civil rights for blacks. Johnson had a history of racism, though he saw the necessity of pushing for civil rights legislation. 

On economic issues and domestic policy, the picture is more mixed.

I don't think you can call Eisenhower more liberal than Obama - none of Eisenhower's domestic policies were more liberal than a modern Democrat - he was simply a consolidationist, not really challenging what had been put in place but not really proactively pushing that many liberal policies himself.

Nixon was basically a political opportunist, who backed large expansions of the regulatory state as cynical attempts to outflank an opposition Democratic Congress. He also was given economic advice that embodied establishment views that were strongly Keynesian.

Truman was actually far more conservative than most modern Democrats remember. His Supreme Court picks were very right-wing for example. He was very strongly pro-union and pro-universal health care, arguably moreso than any of his successors.

Kennedy was basically a moderate, who ran to Nixon's right on many issues, especially foreign policy. In office, he proved relatively ineffective in getting his domestic agenda through, and the New Frontier was relatively limited in its scope. Its major points were (1) broad-based tax cuts, (2) health coverage for the poor and the elderly (Medicare/Medicaid), and (3) increased federal aid to education. None of those are considered more liberal than today, and remember that JFK never pushed for universal health care - just coverage for the old and the sick.

Johnson of course, pushed a very aggressive domestic agenda, but again, remember that he too didn't push for anything remotely universal when it came to health care. He limited himself to Medicare and Medicaid because that's what he could pass at the time.

Really, all the Democratic presidents - including Obama - have basically been ideological pragmatists who push what they believe they can get out of Congress. Throughout the postwar era, Congress was dominated by New Deal Democrats who, though divided on social issues and civil rights, were (generally) willing to spend a great deal on domestic programs. That's less true these days, and that's the context in which Obama is operating.
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« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2009, 01:14:05 am »
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Kennedy was basically a moderate, who ran to Nixon's right on many issues, especially foreign policy. In office, he proved relatively ineffective in getting his domestic agenda through, and the New Frontier was relatively limited in its scope. Its major points were (1) broad-based tax cuts, (2) health coverage for the poor and the elderly (Medicare/Medicaid), and (3) increased federal aid to education. None of those are considered more liberal than today, and remember that JFK never pushed for universal health care - just coverage for the old and the sick.



That's actually a pretty fair assessment, actually. JFK was more glitz and gkamour -- then substance. In terms of competence and political skills, Lyndon Johnson was a far superior president to the man he called a "feckless puppy dog".

Doesn't mean I don't just worship Kennedy, though. Got his picture on my school binder. Smiley
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« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2009, 01:24:27 pm »
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Kennedy was well to Obama's right. Clinton may have been. The rest were certainly left of Obama.
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The idea of parodying the preceding Atlasian's postings is laughable, of course, but not for reasons one might expect.
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