True Justice: Gantt beats Helms in 1990!
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  True Justice: Gantt beats Helms in 1990!
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Author Topic: True Justice: Gantt beats Helms in 1990!  (Read 35969 times)
Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)
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« Reply #75 on: May 27, 2010, 12:37:11 PM »

Why did I think that if the election went to the house that the candidate in last place in a three way race was dropped from consideration?

An excerpt from the 12th Amendment:

The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.

I think Bush and Gantt should win. That would make for some very interesting developments later on.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #76 on: May 27, 2010, 04:15:38 PM »

Why did I think that if the election went to the house that the candidate in last place in a three way race was dropped from consideration?

That's the Vice Presidency you're thinking about Smiley
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Mechaman
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« Reply #77 on: May 28, 2010, 12:50:32 PM »
« Edited: May 28, 2010, 04:04:22 PM by David Lee Roth »

On the Other Side of the House:

The quorum vote passed 91-8-1, with North Carolina Senator Harvey Gantt voting "abstain" due to what he saw as a "conflict of interest".  Both Harvey Gantt and Pete Wilson had spent the past weeks appealing to moderates in both parties in order to secure a majority for their side.  On December 20th the official vote would be held, the results would end up being:


Harvey Gantt: 51
Pete Wilson: 49

In a very close decision by the US Senate in an already very intense election season, North Carolina Senator and Democratic Party Vice Presidential Nominee Harvey Gantt would become the next Vice President-Elect of the United States of America.  In cities across the country, there would be celebration as the election of the first African American Vice President Elect was announced.

As big as such an event was, it would pale in comparison to the events of January 6th, 1993....the day of the US House Election to determine the next President-Elect of the United States.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #78 on: May 28, 2010, 12:56:19 PM »

Epic, damn epic.

IMHO, it would be really epic to see Gantt as Vice President and a man who totally f**cker up his re-election bid, Bush of course, to win by squeaker in House, with Cuomo and Perot killing each other.

Keep it coming.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #79 on: May 28, 2010, 12:57:39 PM »

Epic, damn epic.

IMHO, it would be really epic to see Gantt as Vice President and a man who totally f**cker up his re-election bid, Bush of course, to win by squeaker in House, with Cuomo and Perot killing each other.

Keep it coming.

Oh you will be shocked.
I guarantee it.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #80 on: May 28, 2010, 01:15:14 PM »
« Edited: May 28, 2010, 04:01:47 PM by David Lee Roth »

January 6th, 1993:

On January 6th, the House passed the quorum vote with 38 states, above the required 2/3rds of states required to being the procedure.  For the past two months each candidate had spent hours appealing to individual representatives to try to sway their votes.  With George HW Bush not backing out and endorsing Perot and with moderate and conservative Democrats disillusioned by the Democratic Party Leadership, it seemed possible that Bush could pull off the biggest miracle re-election in history.......although he would surely be despised afterward.
And then on January 6th, 1993, the vote was finally held in the US House:



George HW Bush: 18 states
Mario Cuomo: 19 states
Ross Perot: 13 states

After a grueling session of Congress, no candidate for President had reached the necessary majority needed for election.  And with January 20th only two weeks later, it seemed very unlikely one could be elected in that amount of time.  As a result, a most unpredented decision would have to be made.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #81 on: May 28, 2010, 01:44:47 PM »

Epic, damn epic.

IMHO, it would be really epic to see Gantt as Vice President and a man who totally f**cker up his re-election bid, Bush of course, to win by squeaker in House, with Cuomo and Perot killing each other.

Keep it coming.

Oh you will be shocked.
I guarantee it.

President Gantt?
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Mechaman
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« Reply #82 on: May 28, 2010, 01:56:28 PM »
« Edited: May 28, 2010, 04:30:48 PM by David Lee Roth »

A Most Unprecedented President:

On January 7th, Chief Justice William Hubbs Rehnquist appeared before the public in front of the Supreme Court:

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As a result of the deadlock in Congress over the Presidential Election of 1992, the duties of the Presidency would fall upon the Vice President-Elect, Harvey Gantt of North Carolina.....the first African American Acting President.  For the first time in electoral history, the Vice President Elect would assume the role of Acting President on January 20th.

The 1992 Presidential Election would go down in the history books as perhaps the most unprecedented in history.  It would become noteworthy in that a) the election went to the House and the Senate, b) no presidential candidate had been elected by January 20th, and c) the first Inauguration Day with no president being sworn in.
In the midst of the electoral chaos, fate had suddenly thrust greatness upon Harvey Gantt.......for now.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #83 on: May 28, 2010, 01:58:21 PM »

Epic, damn epic.

IMHO, it would be really epic to see Gantt as Vice President and a man who totally f**cker up his re-election bid, Bush of course, to win by squeaker in House, with Cuomo and Perot killing each other.

Keep it coming.

Oh you will be shocked.
I guarantee it.

President Gantt?

I can't believe I guesses in the last minute Cheesy
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Mechaman
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« Reply #84 on: May 28, 2010, 02:08:48 PM »

Epic, damn epic.

IMHO, it would be really epic to see Gantt as Vice President and a man who totally f**cker up his re-election bid, Bush of course, to win by squeaker in House, with Cuomo and Perot killing each other.

Keep it coming.

Oh you will be shocked.
I guarantee it.

President Gantt?

I can't believe I guesses in the last minute Cheesy

I'll be real honest, I didn't come up with this idea until this morning when I realized that I couldn't think of a realistic scenario where Ross Perot or George HW Bush somehow win the House election (because a straight ticket Democratic victory in Congress would be boring).  What I originally wanted to accomplish was have Gantt win the Vice Presidency and have either Perot or Bush win the Presidency to shake up the Executive Office.  However, I could think of no realistic scenario where Perot could win with Bush still in race, or a scenario where Bush could win unless Republicans were more partisan and gave very few votes to Perot and Bush won the votes of conservative and moderate Democrats.  In other words, the presence of both in the House Election clusterf***ed my map to the point where my self reasoning skills made it impossible for me to envision a scenario where one candidate manages to win 26 or more states.  And then while I was reading the Wikipedia article on the Twelfth Amendment, I found the passage about the Vice President and thought "what the hell?".
Obviously I wanted a result that wasn't predictable.....and I guess I kind of succeeded in that regard.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #85 on: May 28, 2010, 02:19:31 PM »

Epic, damn epic.

IMHO, it would be really epic to see Gantt as Vice President and a man who totally f**cker up his re-election bid, Bush of course, to win by squeaker in House, with Cuomo and Perot killing each other.

Keep it coming.

Oh you will be shocked.
I guarantee it.

President Gantt?

I can't believe I guesses in the last minute Cheesy

I'll be real honest, I didn't come up with this idea until this morning when I realized that I couldn't think of a realistic scenario where Ross Perot or George HW Bush somehow win the House election (because a straight ticket Democratic victory in Congress would be boring).  What I originally wanted to accomplish was have Gantt win the Vice Presidency and have either Perot or Bush win the Presidency to shake up the Executive Office.  However, I could think of no realistic scenario where Perot could win with Bush still in race, or a scenario where Bush could win unless Republicans were more partisan and gave very few votes to Perot and Bush won the votes of conservative and moderate Democrats.  In other words, the presence of both in the House Election clusterf***ed my map to the point where my self reasoning skills made it impossible for me to envision a scenario where one candidate manages to win 26 or more states.  And then while I was reading the Wikipedia article on the Twelfth Amendment, I found the passage about the Vice President and thought "what the hell?".
Obviously I wanted a result that wasn't predictable.....and I guess I kind of succeeded in that regard.

Well, after all that's Gantt tl.
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Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)
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« Reply #86 on: May 28, 2010, 03:02:23 PM »
« Edited: May 28, 2010, 03:04:48 PM by Vazdul »

I have a few nitpicks about this. First, the Gingrich delay tactic would not even have been necessary. Title 3, Section 15 of the United States Code sets the date for the counting of Electoral Votes at January 6th (after the newly elected Congress is sworn in on January 3rd), so the newly elected Congress always has the responsibility of electing the President and Vice President if there is no electoral majority.

Second, the quorum is not "2/3rds of members from two-thirds of the states," it is "a member or members from two-thirds of the states." This, however, is a moot point anyway because of the first point above.

Third, as per the 20th Amendment, Gantt will not become president, instead he "shall act as President until a President shall have qualified." Presumably, the House gets to keep trying until they pick someone.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #87 on: May 28, 2010, 03:55:14 PM »
« Edited: May 28, 2010, 04:12:29 PM by David Lee Roth »

I have a few nitpicks about this. First, the Gingrich delay tactic would not even have been necessary. Title 3, Section 15 of the United States Code sets the date for the counting of Electoral Votes at January 6th (after the newly elected Congress is sworn in on January 3rd), so the newly elected Congress always has the responsibility of electing the President and Vice President if there is no electoral majority.

Second, the quorum is not "2/3rds of members from two-thirds of the states," it is "a member or members from two-thirds of the states." This, however, is a moot point anyway because of the first point above.

Third, as per the 20th Amendment, Gantt will not become president, instead he "shall act as President until a President shall have qualified." Presumably, the House gets to keep trying until they pick someone.

1. When I read the wikipedia article it said something about Congress "holding an immediate election".  I assumed that meant "as soon as possible."
2. The quorum wording always threw me off, I assumed the whole "member or members from two-thirds of states" meant that if a majority of members from 2/3rds of the states approved it would pass.
3. EDIT: Just read the 20th Amendment, makes more sense now, but still pissed off at how much crap I have to edit/delete now.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #88 on: July 30, 2010, 04:29:22 PM »

Reminding bump.
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Yelnoc
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« Reply #89 on: July 30, 2010, 04:42:52 PM »

This is timeline is awesome.

How long will Gantt remain Acting President?  I still have my fingers crossed for Perot.

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Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)
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« Reply #90 on: July 31, 2010, 04:31:38 PM »

This is the awesome timeline that I single-handedly derailed by nitpicking about constitutional issues. I am so sorry!
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Mechaman
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« Reply #91 on: August 04, 2010, 11:57:47 AM »

This is the awesome timeline that I single-handedly derailed by nitpicking about constitutional issues. I am so sorry!

Dude it's not your fault at all alright?  I'm just a very lazyass updater who takes months sometimes to update timelines.
I'll probably have an update up sometime tomorrow or Friday (because I am busy as f*** today).
No need to apologize, you were right after all.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #92 on: August 04, 2010, 12:04:26 PM »

By the way, I have added a poll asking who you want to see as president.  Whether or not this impacts the course I take is uncertain (I'm trying to think how, in such a polarized environment, someone will finally get elected), but your opinions would be really valuable.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #93 on: August 04, 2010, 01:27:47 PM »

By the way, I have added a poll asking who you want to see as president.  Whether or not this impacts the course I take is uncertain (I'm trying to think how, in such a polarized environment, someone will finally get elected), but your opinions would be really valuable.

I don't want no one of these bores. Go f**k yourself with such choices.

I WANT PRESIDENT GANTT!!!!

Don't even mind what this mean Vazdul wrote. President Gantt!
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Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)
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« Reply #94 on: August 04, 2010, 05:51:44 PM »

This is the awesome timeline that I single-handedly derailed by nitpicking about constitutional issues. I am so sorry!

Dude it's not your fault at all alright?  I'm just a very lazyass updater who takes months sometimes to update timelines.
I'll probably have an update up sometime tomorrow or Friday (because I am busy as f*** today).
No need to apologize, you were right after all.

It's okay. I was just worried about the fact that I started nitpicking, and right after that the updates stopped.

By the way, I have added a poll asking who you want to see as president.  Whether or not this impacts the course I take is uncertain (I'm trying to think how, in such a polarized environment, someone will finally get elected), but your opinions would be really valuable.

I think an interesting way of solving this problem (while maintaining constitutional integrity) would be that the House remains deadlocked until after the 1994 midterms. Acting President Gantt proves to be more popular than Clinton was during his early years, but it's not enough to save the congressional Democrats, who lose control of Congress as in RL. The newly elected House chooses Bush, who proves to be even more of a failure in his second term, and Gantt wins the presidency in 1996.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #95 on: August 04, 2010, 06:16:12 PM »

I think an interesting way of solving this problem (while maintaining constitutional integrity) would be that the House remains deadlocked until after the 1994 midterms. Acting President Gantt proves to be more popular than Clinton was during his early years, but it's not enough to save the congressional Democrats, who lose control of Congress as in RL. The newly elected House chooses Bush, who proves to be even more of a failure in his second term, and Gantt wins the presidency in 1996.

Now, that is GREAT idea Cheesy
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Mechaman
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« Reply #96 on: August 05, 2010, 11:28:37 AM »

The Chaotic Jungle:

On his first day before the US Congress Acting President Harvey Gantt had this speech to deliver before the nation:

"Today we have a most unprecedented duty to perform, the election of the President of the United States of America.  While it is important that we pass legislation to better the lives of millions of Americans, this nation can't got without an official leader much longer.  In my current position I humbly ask this on the behalf of all Americans, for I have not the ego to see the people to suffer for the inaction of this United States House to elect a President.  Once we have elected the President I would hope that our most immediate course of action afterward is to push forward electoral reform legislation that would avoid the electoral gridlock that we now face.  In my current office I will not cease and I will not desist until we have our President."

Following his speech before the US Congress Harvey Gantt's approval ratings would rocket up to 86%.  Even in some areas in the Deep South Gantt enjoyed ratings well above 60%.  Poll analysts would conclude that the American people, though divided over politics, formed a consensus opinion that Harvey Gantt had the national interest of electing a president, no matter what party, over his own politics.  However, the nation would prove to be too divided for the pragmatic Gantt to unite........

Hell no I won't go!:

In the meantime, the three Presidential candidates all seemed, after all the controversy surrounding the election, determined to stay in the election come hell or high water.  Despite record low approval ratings former President George HW Bush refused to drop out of the election:

"Let me make this crystal clear: I AM THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE.  I will not drop out of this election and abandon the voices of the millions of Republican voters in this nation.  It may not be the most popular decision I've made, but it's the right one."



New York Governor Mario Cuomo, the Democratic nominee who narrowly lost the popular vote to Independent Ross Perot, also refused to drop out and echoed the Acting President's call for electoral reform:

"The people of this nation deserve results, RESULTS!  There is no reason this should still be happening, this nation deserves real electoral reform that will address the problems this divided House faces."



Independent candidate Ross Perot, despite facing staunch opposition from Democratic and Republican loyalists in the House, refuses to give up, citing "the People's Precedent."

"Now I'm sure I speak for all Americans when I say that we are sick and tired of all this floatin and boating by the political establishment in preventing true representive government of the people in the Oval Office.  It's a miracle that I have gotten this far, that a few brave men and women in the US House decided to act in the best interest of the people of this country and not party leaders.  George HW Bush is a failed president, the polls have spoken.  Mario Cuomo knows what to say to make people like him, but he lacks the openminded pragmatic problem solving thinking to make a good president.  If Congress really wants to represent the voice of the people and not that of the conservative and liberal idealogues, an independent thinker who is willing to work differences out, to bring real debate to the issues, they will put aside petty partisan differences and let a Perot Administration get this nation back to business.  What I've learned from this experience is that we need a drastic change in the electoral process that keeps the people of the nation, not members of the partisan House of Representatives, the sole deciders of elections.  Then we can have a truly democratic process."



No one could predict the pandemonium this deadlock would produce.........
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Mechaman
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« Reply #97 on: August 05, 2010, 11:54:31 AM »

The Show Must Go On:



Despite the electoral deadlock, members of the US House were growing restless to push forward their legislative agenda.  Most notable of these was Speaker of the House Tom Foley, who addressed Congress on February 2nd, 1992:

"The Show Must Go On.  Too many people are suffering in this nation from our inaction to push forward real legislation.  As we worry about electing a President millions in this nation are worrying about their finances and their health.  Millions of Americans are without the proper health and medical coverage they need in cases of emergency, this issue should be at the forefront of this US Congress, even before the election of a US President."

Foley's comments would generate a lot of controversy with conservative talkinghead Rush Limbaugh saying:

"The audacity of this US House, especially Speaker Foley, in claiming that the Constitutional Crisis we face shouldn't take precedent over his own selfish partisan agenda.  I mean if Pete Wilson was the one who was elected Vice President in the US Senate and now acting president I bet Foley would be speaking a different tune, though admittedly Harvey Gantt has taken on the role of Acting President in the most selfless of ways."

Ironically, the Foley comments would see many conservatives come to the defense of Acting President Gantt, a self described "liberal Democrat", in trying to get the HOuse to elect a new President.

On February 14th, 1993, the US House would finally hold another electoral session:



Results once again proved inconclusive.

The future of the ongoing electoral crisis would change once again on February 26th, 1993.....
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Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)
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« Reply #98 on: August 05, 2010, 07:14:39 PM »

I'm glad this is back. Keep it coming!
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Yelnoc
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« Reply #99 on: August 05, 2010, 09:06:36 PM »

I'm still pulling for Perot, though he really has no chance in hell.

I like Vazdul's solution, though I'm really hoping for something I didn't see coming.
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