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Author Topic: Politics of Edinburgh  (Read 10254 times)
Хahar 🤔
Xahar
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« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2009, 11:41:14 AM »

Old right-wing Morrison machine?

Now I'm interested. You must go on.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2009, 12:45:01 PM »

Old right-wing Morrison machine?

Now I'm interested. You must go on.

The political machine built by Herbert Morrison, basically. It dominated the politics of the LCC and of the boroughs within it from 1934 until the GLC elections of 1967 and the borough elections of 1968. It was structurally very different from other right-wing* municipal Labour machines (which were, and are, usually dominated by local Unions and people close to them - Birmingham Labour is a classic example - and which have rarely had more than a handful of individual Party members) in that it was a centralised mass-membership party. In each borough it tended to be dominated by Alderman and other senior councillors who had the same level of control over the Party in their own borough as Morrision (and later Isaac Hayward**) did over them. 1968 basically destroyed the machine because the organisation revolved around the Alderman and senior councillors - most of whom lost their seats that year. At the same time, individual membership of all political parties was dropping like a stone, removing the foundations of the system as well.

*a relative term of course... and sometimes less than that. Style, structure and sociology having as much to do with the label as politics in some cases.

**the longest serving head of elected London government; he was the leader of the LCC from 1947 until it was abolished in 1965.
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Хahar 🤔
Xahar
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« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2009, 12:54:59 PM »

So, then, it was an American-style machine?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2009, 01:05:11 PM »


No - it wasn't reliant on patronage (which is the key feature of classic American political machines) but on a large number of Party members. Though it was more like one than most right-wing municipal Labour machines (including the one in West Ham - which was only formally added to London in the '60's and was thus outside Morrison's influence. Labour control there goes back to the end of the 19th century) were and are.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2009, 01:23:37 PM »

If the LCC had remained, would Labour have been defeated in 1968?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2009, 01:33:22 PM »

If the LCC had remained, would Labour have been defeated in 1968?

The GLC elections were in 1967, but probably. However, they wouldn't have been defeated in 1977 (also a Tory landslide).
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2009, 01:42:47 PM »

If the government was so unpopular, how did Labour do so well at the 1970 general election?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2009, 01:47:56 PM »

If the government was so unpopular, how did Labour do so well at the 1970 general election?

Well a lot of the reasons for the government's unpopularity were pretty superficial (devaluation for example) and when they went away...
Though, reading diaries and memoirs of Labour politicians from the time is hilarious - they were for the most part genuinely amazed at the sudden upturn in the Party's poll ratings and struggled to explain it.

But now we should probably end this threadjack Grin
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2009, 01:50:57 PM »

To return this thread back on topic... details on the Moderates would be nice Smiley. I have a rough idea of what they were, but not much more than that.
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Hash
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« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2009, 02:12:50 PM »

Yeah, what's up with the Moderates in old Scottish local politics? I think Afleitch also referred to them in Glasgow back in the days.
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afleitch
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« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2009, 02:25:58 PM »

To return this thread back on topic... details on the Moderates would be nice Smiley. I have a rough idea of what they were, but not much more than that.

Yeah, what's up with the Moderates in old Scottish local politics? I think Afleitch also referred to them in Glasgow back in the days.

I'm taking a jaunt to Edinburgh to enlighten myself on this Cheesy The Moderates/Progressives etc were essentially businessmen/shop owners/solicitors who sat on the council and were elected under that banner. You could say they represented the employer while Labour represented the employed. The Moderates also represented the 'not Labour' vote and were broadly more successful when Labour was weak. Their seats were often not contested.

The councillors (and most of their voters) generally identified with the Unionists (later Conservatives) nationally and were often party members, but the Tories were not organised locally until the 1960's when most of the previous Moderates ran under the Tory banner.

And it all went downhill from there...
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2010, 07:58:50 PM »

Just noticed something strange from parliamentary results in Edinburgh in the interwar period; the first is that West was actually won by Labour in 1929 (obviously on a split vote, but 38% in that part of that city in that year seems surprising) and near won in 1945. But the really interesting thing is this...

Edinburgh Central, % majorities

1918: Lab 2.6
1922: Lab 15.8
1923: Lab 35.8
1924: Lab 21.0
1929: Lab 35.2
1931: Con 23.1
1935: Con 12.6 (note: Labour gained East, previously much weaker than Central, that year)
1945: Lab 21.0

...which produced a reaction of "wtf". I'm wondering whether slum clearance in the Old Town (if there was any; I don't know much about Edinburgh's municipal history during this period) might explain it. The electorate in 1918 was a tad under 31,000, peaked at about 41,000 in 1929 (the first election after the equalisation of the franchise) and was down to 33,000 in 1945.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2010, 04:09:40 AM »

And the guy who won in 1945 also ran in 1935. I don't think there was a boundary change during the period?

I know there's a smallish council estate right southwest of Holyrood Castle (and southeast of the new Parliament) that was built on top of a razed early 19th century slum, and initially tenanted by the very same people that had been living in the slum (presumably it was built in stages?) I think that was in the 1950s, though.

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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2010, 05:20:15 AM »

I don't think there was a boundary change during the period?

The only boundary changes during the period were in constituencies that had become too large, so, no.
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afleitch
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« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2010, 07:58:11 AM »

I'm going to have a look at that in some detail as I've got some residency figures from that period. I have a feeling about the 1930's figures...and that may have something to do with religious politics and city politics wrapped up in a big ball of bad. It's worth checking out.
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afleitch
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« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2010, 03:55:56 PM »

Just noticed something strange from parliamentary results in Edinburgh in the interwar period; the first is that West was actually won by Labour in 1929 (obviously on a split vote, but 38% in that part of that city in that year seems surprising) and near won in 1945. But the really interesting thing is this...

Edinburgh Central, % majorities

1918: Lab 2.6
1922: Lab 15.8
1923: Lab 35.8
1924: Lab 21.0
1929: Lab 35.2
1931: Con 23.1
1935: Con 12.6 (note: Labour gained East, previously much weaker than Central, that year)
1945: Lab 21.0

...which produced a reaction of "wtf". I'm wondering whether slum clearance in the Old Town (if there was any; I don't know much about Edinburgh's municipal history during this period) might explain it. The electorate in 1918 was a tad under 31,000, peaked at about 41,000 in 1929 (the first election after the equalisation of the franchise) and was down to 33,000 in 1945.


On closer inspection. (And i'll post up some supporting local government maps soon)

Interwar Edinburgh West was not as 'west' as we would now assume



This is Edinburgh in 1925

You may spot the blob of Fettes College, then out on it's own and now circled by housing. Also worth noting is the obvious seperation (for now) between Edinburgh and Leith

West was composed of Dalry, Gorgie, St Bernards and Haymarket. Dalry and Gorgie were rocksolid Labour and the race was really a turnout battle. However in 1929 there was a strong 3rd place showing for the Liberals. Their candidate was Vivian Phillips, former MP for the area and former teacher at Fettes. It was the first 'women under 30' election so a strong Liberal showing plus alot of working lassies voting for Labour may have swung the result. The Liberals didn't stand after this point.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2010, 08:31:32 PM »

Ah, that would explain things somewhat. Anything on the weird results in Central?
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afleitch
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« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2010, 08:46:08 PM »

Ah, that would explain things somewhat. Anything on the weird results in Central?

Working on that. Something happened when it came to demographics. There's some good housing stock in there but as time moved on I think alot of the occupants did too...and the 'people per room' stats look interesting as you head into the 30's.
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