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Poll
Question: in the Austrian "conscription referendum" in January 2013 ?
Keep the mandatory 6-month draft and 9 month civil service   -18 (18%)
Abolish the draft & civil service and create a professional army   -82 (82%)
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Total Voters: 99

Author Topic: How would you vote ...  (Read 12205 times)
Franzl
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« Reply #175 on: November 22, 2012, 03:57:29 am »
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First of all, wtf does Austria need an army for?

Second, an army of draftees would exhibit the same "strange" behaviors an army of civilians would exhibit.  The only way to avoid that is to hire only college graduates who pass rigorous psychological tests (the same is true for the police).

Third, would women still be in favor of the draft if they also had to spend 6 months of their life in the army?

In reality, it's less about the army than that the Austrians want to keep their (almost) free slave labor in the "civil service".

We had the same debate here. I'm just glad we don't do referenda here, or we might still have conscription here...
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Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
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« Reply #176 on: November 22, 2012, 02:21:00 pm »
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First of all, wtf does Austria need an army for?

For natural disaster help for example.

Or to escort US fighter jets from Germany to Italy for example when they enter the Austrian airspace, so the Military can then publish a report that says: "We escorted a US fighter jet from the German border to the Italian border because we are a neutral country." And then the media says: "Wow, a US fighter was flying above Austria and the (T)Eurofighters escorted them. Eurofighters ? They were very costly, and bought by a corrupt government with corrupt deals etc.etc.etc. They suck!" And so on ...

And because Austria has it's military deployed on the Golan as part of the UN missions there and in Bosnia and Kosovo.

Second, an army of draftees would exhibit the same "strange" behaviors an army of civilians would exhibit.  The only way to avoid that is to hire only college graduates who pass rigorous psychological tests (the same is true for the police).

Not exactly. Some experts think a professional voluntary army would draw the hard-right-wingers and Nazis into the military by much bigger numbers than now, because they get paid pretty well, while a drafted army is more like a representation of the general public. At least that's what happened in Belgium, I've read somewhere: Either they don't get enough volunteers or a lot of right-wingers sign up for the Military service.

Third, would women still be in favor of the draft if they also had to spend 6 months of their life in the army?

Good question. But the referendum isn't only about the draft, but the Civil Service as well. And previous polls have shown that Austrian women are as likely as men to support a MANDATORY SOCIAL CILVIL SERVICE YEAR for both MEN & WOMEN. So, the Austrian women probably think more like this: "If it takes a mandatory social year for us too to keep up the current quality of the social services (Red Cross, Retirement homes, Caritas etc.), then we wouldn't mind being drafted as well, because change suxx and is probably more expensive than before ...)
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Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
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« Reply #177 on: November 23, 2012, 01:19:29 am »
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The BMI (Interior Ministry) has issued a 60-page guide about the organisation of the referendum.

Like in every other election here, every Austrian citizen aged 16+ will be automatically eligible to vote on Jan. 20.

The exact number of eligible voters will be known by December 19, when the Election Commission releases the numbers.

It also says that every eligible voter has to receive a election information card with their precinct on it, at least 3 days ahead of the referendum.

Voting on election day will open at 8am and close at 5pm.

There will be about 15.000 polling stations for about 6.350.000 eligible voters, so about 450 voters per polling station.

http://www.bmi.gv.at/cms/BMI_wahlen/volksbefragung/files/Leitfaden_Volksbefragung2013_Gesamt.pdf

Also, this is the first election/referendum in which the new absentee ballot law takes effect:

From this election on, absentee ballots will only be counted if they arrive at the district election commission by Sunday @ 5pm, when the regular polling stations close.

In elections until now, it was possible that the absentee ballots were counted when they arrived 8 days later than the official voting day.

Even though there was no abuse known in the past, the SPÖVP coalition decided that they should reform the procedure because people could actually wait for the election day result and vote absentee based on the results. This can now be ruled out.

Also, the final number of absentee applications will be published by the Election Commission on Jan. 19, one day ahead of the referendum, because Austrians can apply for absentee ballots until 2 days before the referendum/election.
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Mark Warner 08
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« Reply #178 on: November 23, 2012, 03:38:07 am »
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There was a mock election at the "Akademisches Gymnasium Salzburg" (Academic High School) in the City of Salzburg recently, in which all the students heard arguments from Salzburg City Mayor Heinz Schaden (SPÖ) and former Austrian Defense Minister in the early 80s, Friedhelm Frischenschlager (FPÖ). It should be noted that Schaden, contrary to the federal SPÖ, backs the draft, while Frischenschlager, contrary to the federal FPÖ, backs a professional army.

In the end, the students at the high school voted only narrowly for a professional army (green ballot = professional army):



This is not good, because these students are mostly like me: left-leaning.

If the olds vote as well on Jan. 20, a big majority will probably vote for the draft.

http://www.salzburg.com/nachrichten/salzburg/politik/sn/artikel/salzburger-schueler-stimmten-ueber-bundesheer-ab-36980
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Mark Warner 08
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« Reply #179 on: November 23, 2012, 03:47:10 am »
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My home state of Salzburg is also the only one of the 9 states that set aside the partisan politicking and created a bipartisan 15-page brochure, explaining the draft and professional army systems incl. statistics and arguments for and against it (similiar to brochures ahead of Swiss referendums).

This brochure can be downloaded at the state government website and will be sent to each household ahead of the referendum.

Salzburg, once again ahead of all others ... Wink

http://www.salzburg.gv.at/foldervbwehrpflicht_final.pdf

Quote
Vorbild für den Bund: Information statt Emotion Rot-Schwarz legen in Salzburg gemeinsame Fibel für die Wehrpflicht-Volksbefragung auf

Was Bundes-Rote und Bundes-Schwarze ob ihrer Differenzen nicht zustande gebracht haben, ist ihren Salzburger Statthaltern gelungen: SPÖ-Landeshauptfrau Gabi Burgstaller und ihr ÖVP-Vize Wilfried Haslauer informieren sachlich über alle Facetten der Wehrpflicht-Volksbefragung am 20. Jänner. In der 28-seitigen Broschüre finden Bürger die beiden Fragen; detto Fakten zu Wehrpflicht, Zivildienst, Katastrophenschutz – also zu dem, was die ÖVP auch künftig haben will. Ebenso wird jenes Modell erläutert, das die SPÖ bewirbt: Berufsheer samt freiwilligem Sozialjahr.

„Man war peinlich darauf bedacht, beide Seiten möglichst objektiv darzustellen“, sagt der Politik-Berater Thomas Hofer. Das sei insofern bemerkenswert, „als Burgstaller die Pläne ihrer eigenen Partei kritisch sieht“.

http://kurier.at/politik/inland/vorbild-fuer-den-bund-information-statt-emotion/1.352.150
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Mark Warner 08
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« Reply #180 on: November 23, 2012, 08:31:52 am »
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New poll by the Public Opinion Institut für Sozialforschung:

60-40 for the draft

But if you ask them about the 2 models (mandatory draft+civil service vs. professional voluntary army+voluntary social year), the draft model is favored by 49% and the professional army model is favored by 44%.

The die-hard supporters of the draft are also more than twice as numerous than the abolitionists: 38% say they "definitely want to keep the draft", while only 17% say they "definitely want it abolished". 22% lean towards keeping the draft and 23% lean towards abolishing it.

http://www.public-opinion.at/wordpress/?p=388
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Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
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« Reply #181 on: November 27, 2012, 01:27:58 am »
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The BMI (Interior Ministry) has published an information poster about the Jan. 20 draft referendum (incl. how the ballot will look like):



Every Austrian citizen who is aged 16+ on Jan. 20 will be automatically eligible to vote.

Also Austrian citizens living abroad are eligible, if they are registered at their previous Austrian home city.

To vote, you have to bring a "amtlicher Lichtbildausweis" with you to the election precinct in your home city (valid government-issued photo ID).

You can also vote with a "Stimmkarte" (with an absentee ballot): In any precinct in Austria, in a "flying election commission" (election officials who visit retirement homes, hospitals etc.) and by post ("Briefwahl").
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