Just a suggestion.......

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Let's not automatically think someone is a sock or attack them simply because some of their first posts are a bit much to one side or the other.

We're not very welcoming to newbies, but I understand that given the invasion of nasties we've had.

IMO, the fakes and socks will reveal themselves in due course, but we should give passionate newbies the benefit of the doubt until then.

[fezzyfestoon]

You're getting soft, old man.  Consider them pledges.  We gotta bang em up a bit to see if they've got what it takes.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

You're getting soft, old man.  Consider them pledges.  We gotta bang em up a bit to see if they've got what it takes.

Ha ha, Fezz, you're right.  All the pledges in my Sigma Chi Chapter thought I was a prick.     

Hey, let's have a Hell Night!!!!!!!!!! 

[Joe Republic]

This is exactly why creating sockpuppet accounts is such a serious problem that a worrying trend of people don't take seriously enough.  By creating fake accounts and personas for the purpose of trolling, you're only spreading mistrust of any new posters.

This forum isn't a damn playground, as much as it would appear so.  There are consequences for certain activities within this forum that can go far beyond its boundaries.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

This is exactly why creating sockpuppet accounts is such a serious problem that a worrying trend of people don't take seriously enough.  By creating fake accounts and personas for the purpose of trolling, you're only spreading mistrust of any new posters.

This forum isn't a damn playground, as much as it would appear so.  There are consequences for certain activities within this forum that can go far beyond its boundaries.

Exactly.  I'm not "sensitive" by any measure of the word, but if I were a newbie and had to deal with some of this I'd just say F it and leave.  When new posters with good intentions leave, it diminishes the experience for all of us.

[Conservative frontier]

No offense to anyone to the left of the average Moderate, but the dems here think anyone with a blue avatar is a troll.

It's a republican year, so naturally republicans will register.

[Katherine Harris is legit]

No offense to anyone to the left of the average Moderate, but the dems here think anyone with a blue avatar is a troll.

It's a republican year, so naturally republicans will register.

Yeah you are right on the money dude. Tell it like it is

[Torie]

It would help if the newbie's started out composing some thoughtful and substantive posts. They can join in  the attendant fun and nonsense side of this forum later. Just a thought.

[patrick1]

It is always suspicious to me when the newbies seem to have an encyclopedic knowledge of forum history and/or post in the forum community board right off the bat.  Like you just stumble onto a political map site and now you want to express your opinion of the preceding poster.  Please.

[Torie]

It is always suspicious to me when the newbies seem to have an encyclopedic knowledge of forum history and/or post in the forum community board right off the bat.  Like you just stumble onto a political map site and now you want to express your opinion of the preceding poster.  Please.

Those "newbies" have been "lurking" for years of course, before they signed up. Or so they say.

[Ban my account ffs!]

It would help if the newbie's started out composing some thoughtful and substantive posts. They can join in  the attendant fun and nonsense side of this forum later. Just a thought.

Like Hoffman John... he seems to be a very intelligent, engaged poster.

[Katherine Harris is legit]

It would help if the newbie's started out composing some thoughtful and substantive posts. They can join in  the attendant fun and nonsense side of this forum later. Just a thought.

Like Hoffman John... he seems to be a very intelligent, engaged poster.

I know for a fact that John is a troll brought here by someone else but hey, he's a leftie.

you suck!

[KeeptheChange]

It would help if the newbie's started out composing some thoughtful and substantive posts. They can join in  the attendant fun and nonsense side of this forum later. Just a thought.

I did.  It was in the Economics folder and the original post was about my proposal for righting the economic ship.  Instead of friendly debate and original ideas. the Democrat posters decided that "LOL" and "you're arrogant" were sufficient responses.  Not one thing I said was arrogant.  It was political and economic opinion...and even at that, it was civil.

[Ban my account ffs!]

It would help if the newbie's started out composing some thoughtful and substantive posts. They can join in  the attendant fun and nonsense side of this forum later. Just a thought.

I did.  It was in the Economics folder and the original post was about my proposal for righting the economic ship.  Instead of friendly debate and original ideas. the Democrat posters decided that "LOL" and "you're arrogant" were sufficient responses.  Not one thing I said was arrogant.  It was political and economic opinion...and even at that, it was civil.

I don't think you're a sock puppet.. I just think your ideas of "fixing" our economy are way too extreme.  Lowering taxes to 1% would destroy our economy.

Also, education would be out of reach for millions of children under a private, for-profit system since right now the rich and those without school-aged children are subsidizing "tuition" for school children.

[Marokai Backbeat]

It is always suspicious to me when the newbies seem to have an encyclopedic knowledge of forum history and/or post in the forum community board right off the bat.  Like you just stumble onto a political map site and now you want to express your opinion of the preceding poster.  Please.

This is part of the reason alot of people around here are understandably cautious about new posters. I think people are being a little unreasonable when they complain about how new posters are treated. When they are either so incredibly extreme and offensive or display a knowledge of Atlas history, it raises red flags and justifiably so. I don't think it's rude or cruel to question whether or not a new poster is legitimate if you have suspicions like that.

Let's not automatically think someone is a sock or attack them simply because some of their first posts are a bit much to one side or the other.

We're not very welcoming to newbies, but I understand that given the invasion of nasties we've had.

IMO, the fakes and socks will reveal themselves in due course, but we should give passionate newbies the benefit of the doubt until then.

What exactly is the standard for determining who is a "fake and sock" and who is a "passionate newbie"? We have had a ton of fake posters and banned posters who create secondary accounts to skirt the requirements. Alot of it is made worse by the fact that Atlasia has a serious problem with people recruiting posters who know almost nothing about atlasia to stack their voting rolls. I know alot of people say not to take Atlasia too seriously, but it does tend to bleed over into the general sentiment of the website.

Alot of the suspicion and criticism is totally justified. I mean, look at this:

Hamilton/Hamilton

lol, are you serious.

He must read your posts.

Oh I think he voted on an entirely different motivation, darling.

Such as?

Do you really expect me to believe that a poster, who just recently joined, has about two dozen posts to his name, and is another one of the libertarian-leaning posters who I'm sure will end up being a knock-out like Libertas, who voted against me in a matchup with my least favorite poster, and not have anything to do with you telling him, or influencing his vote, in any way?

And it just so happened I was JUST viewing this thread when you popped in and two votes tallied in against me, so unless we have some major coincidences going on, you were watching the "Who's Online" page and kicked things in gear.

I suspected Vane because his actions were suspicious and threw up a red flag to me at the time. A ton of people criticized me and said I was being too harsh and paranoid.

Vane has now been exposed, a month after my initial suspicions, as a poster who was using (potentially illegal) proxies and now people behind the scenes are saying he's Hamilton. My concerns were completely proven right.

Segway, too, has been suspicious since day one, engaging in similar behavior as Vane. I criticized him multiple times and had my eye on him for awhile. Segway has now, too, been exposed as someone who posts using proxies, raising many many more questions.

We've had tons of other problems. Ogis has been a routine troll who has returned under a half-dozen different names. Josh22 created a secondary account now known as Devilman88. Straha has returned to the forum at least twice. Kalwejt and Hamilton have created secondary accounts in the past (and Kalwejt just recently did a matter of days ago) just for the hell of it (Larry T and JohnnyBoy, and others), and on and on and on. We've had so many socks and trolls and repeat offenders that the suspicions are, in my opinion, totally legit.

Especially since so many of the suspicions have been proven right.

I take the exact opposite belief that you seem to. If a poster is legitimate, they can handle it and will prove themselves with time. If someone raises so many suspicions and questions, I think it's totally warranted, and often they prove to be right, and they don't deserve to be glossed over.

[Torie]

It would help if the newbie's started out composing some thoughtful and substantive posts. They can join in  the attendant fun and nonsense side of this forum later. Just a thought.

I did.  It was in the Economics folder and the original post was about my proposal for righting the economic ship.  Instead of friendly debate and original ideas. the Democrat posters decided that "LOL" and "you're arrogant" were sufficient responses.  Not one thing I said was arrogant.  It was political and economic opinion...and even at that, it was civil.

What might help to slow that down, is to adduce evidence per links to support your opinion. Marioaki Blue (sp) does that often, and I think it is very effective. If nothing else, it makes the opposition have to work harder to refute his points. Heck sometimes I think hey, I don't have the inclination right now to work through it all, and just let his points stand, and well, an unbiased judge might deem that he has "won" that particular debate. Sometimes being effective takes work - no pain, no gain.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Just as a sidenote I think you're one of the best Republicans on the site, Torie.

[Torie]

Just as a sidenote I think you're one of the best Republicans on the site, Torie.

It is easier to "love" the RINO's isn't it?    Thanks by the way; I appreciate it.

[KeeptheChange]

It would help if the newbie's started out composing some thoughtful and substantive posts. They can join in  the attendant fun and nonsense side of this forum later. Just a thought.

I did.  It was in the Economics folder and the original post was about my proposal for righting the economic ship.  Instead of friendly debate and original ideas. the Democrat posters decided that "LOL" and "you're arrogant" were sufficient responses.  Not one thing I said was arrogant.  It was political and economic opinion...and even at that, it was civil.

What might help to slow that down, is to adduce evidence per links to support your opinion. Marioaki Blue (sp) does that often, and I think it is very effective. If nothing else, it makes the opposition have to work harder to refute his points. Heck sometimes I think hey, I don't have the inclination right now to work through it all, and just let his points stand, and well, an unbiased judge might deem that he has "won" that particular debate. Sometimes being effective takes work - no pain, no gain.

But if I have done the work already, I kinda resent having to do it for him.  I dunno, you may be right. Perhaps that would add some punch to it.  Although, a lot of things are self-evident. Tax cuts DO create wealth and prosperity.  You need a link to prove that Reagan was right? The economic boom he created should be sufficient proof of that.  But still Torie, I hear what you're saying and I will try to be better at that.  I will not spoonfeed them but maybe a little bit of a nudge in the right direction will be helpful to the ones who want to discuss issues in good faith.

[AndrewTX]

Just as a sidenote I think you're one of the best Republicans on the site, Torie.

lol

[Torie]

It would help if the newbie's started out composing some thoughtful and substantive posts. They can join in  the attendant fun and nonsense side of this forum later. Just a thought.

I did.  It was in the Economics folder and the original post was about my proposal for righting the economic ship.  Instead of friendly debate and original ideas. the Democrat posters decided that "LOL" and "you're arrogant" were sufficient responses.  Not one thing I said was arrogant.  It was political and economic opinion...and even at that, it was civil.

What might help to slow that down, is to adduce evidence per links to support your opinion. Marioaki Blue (sp) does that often, and I think it is very effective. If nothing else, it makes the opposition have to work harder to refute his points. Heck sometimes I think hey, I don't have the inclination right now to work through it all, and just let his points stand, and well, an unbiased judge might deem that he has "won" that particular debate. Sometimes being effective takes work - no pain, no gain.

My comment or two is interlineated in your text below:

But if I have done the work already, I kinda resent having to do it for him.  I dunno, you may be right. Perhaps that would add some punch to it.  Although, a lot of things are self-evident. Tax cuts DO create wealth and prosperity. [Supply side economics and its efficacy, and degree of efficacy, and when it is efficacious, and when it just busts the budget, is highly controversial in the public square; that is one area in particular where supporting your opinion with empirical evidence and "expert" opinion well argued is essential to persuade anyone to change their mind on that issue typically] You need a link to prove that Reagan was right? The economic boom he created should be sufficient proof of that. [Reagan through arranging a recession with help from the Feds finally tamped down inflation, which was the predicate to real growth, and then matters were up and down, and then Reagan was forced by ballooning deficits to take back a considerable portion of the 1981 tax cut, with the 1986 tax increase; in any event, tax rates were much higher then, and the case for supply side is stronger almost in direct correlation to how high the tax rates are that you propose to cut] But still Torie, I hear what you're saying and I will try to be better at that.  I will not spoonfeed them but maybe a little bit of a nudge in the right direction will be helpful to the ones who want to discuss issues in good faith. [Do your own thing as you see fit; I was just sharing what my impression is of what is effective on internet chat boards, and what is not, for those posters who want to be taken seriously, and not all do. Some are just in for the fun of it all, which is perfectly OK, as long as it is not unduly disruptive or deflective of more serious endeavors IMO. It really does help however to persuade posters with other views to actually like you as a person. Humans are not all just intellectual machines; they have emotions. Who knew?  ].

[Marokai Backbeat]

Just as a sidenote I think you're one of the best Republicans on the site, Torie.

lol

You, Duke, and Fezzy are good too.

[Barnes]

Remember, Marokai, when you thought I was a sock account?

[Marokai Backbeat]

Remember, Marokai, when you thought I was a sock account?

Yeah but I did drop those suspicions after you proved yourself to be a nice and reasonable guy. In my defense though, you were a newbie who jumped straight into heavy Atlasia issues.

I don't mean that we should all be suspicious of every newbie, but I think if we have some suspicions, we should at least keep our eye on them from time to time. It's not always a bad thing.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Remember, Marokai, when you thought I was a sock account?

Yeah but I did drop those suspicions after you proved yourself to be a nice and reasonable guy. In my defense though, you were a newbie who jumped straight into heavy Atlasia issues.

I don't mean that we should all be suspicious of every newbie, but I think if we have some suspicions, we should at least keep our eye on them from time to time. It's not always a bad thing.

Paranoid much?