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Author Topic: Should NATO be disbanded?  (Read 4938 times)
Bo
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« on: February 15, 2010, 12:25:14 am »
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I'd say No. However, the reason I am asking this question is because NATO was originally created to confront the Soviet Union, and since the Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore, many people say that NATO is no longer needed and should thus be disbanded.
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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2010, 12:30:37 am »
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Yes.  The United States should avoid these useless peacetime alliances.
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2010, 12:32:24 am »
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Of course not; it should be expanded and have its mission reoriented.
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2010, 12:35:36 am »
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It serves no benefit to the American people to go abroad and spend their tax dollars to defend an "ally" that was invaded.  If it wasn't for us defending one of our "allies" there would still probably be a World Trade Center.  For most of our history, we were able to survive and thrive as a country without these entangling alliances.
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2010, 06:44:32 am »
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Yeah, what has Poland ever done for us?  And it's not like the west hasn't turned their collective backs on them before.  Really, the Kurds, Jews, etc should be used to it by now.
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2010, 08:57:09 am »
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Yes
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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2010, 01:55:49 pm »
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Yeah, what has Poland ever done for us?  And it's not like the west hasn't turned their collective backs on them before.  Really, the Kurds, Jews, etc should be used to it by now.

How exactly does a missile shield in Poland or a billion dollars of aid to Israel benefit the American people?  If anything it just puts them at a greater risk.  The terrorist attacks on September 11th happened because of anti-American sentiment in the Middle East, which stems from our support for Israel, and our hand in the overthrow of Iran's democratically elected government, as well as half a million dead Iraqi children due to U.S. sanctions.
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2010, 02:01:21 pm »
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Yeah, what has Poland ever done for us?  And it's not like the west hasn't turned their collective backs on them before.  Really, the Kurds, Jews, etc should be used to it by now.

What exactly does Poland need defending from? Please don't make yourself into a joke by going on some delusional Putin/Russia rant.
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2010, 02:08:34 pm »
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BRTD, you're looking the wrong way:

Some might say Iran.  Some might say China.  Some might say N. Korea.  Some might even say ourselves.  All of those are big threats, no doubt, but I've got my eye on a country we've had trouble with before--GERMANY.

The reason I say Germany is our biggest threat is due to the Euro.  France and Germany were in cahoots in creating the Euro.  They created the Euro to force all the European nations to come under one currency so the Germans and the French could "currency-gouge" the rest of Europe and force them to break loose of the grip of the Euro.  Plus, in my opinion, Germany did not learn its lesson from World War II and the United States failed to completely stabilize the country mainly because stupidly got ourselves into a Pacific theater with Japan. (Japan wasn't our biggest enemy in WW2, we made them our biggest enemy.)  If America had done things right like befriend Japan (they wanted to be our friend in the late 1930s), we may have been able to avoid Pearl Harbor.  Since Pearl Harbor happened our focus had to mainly shift out to the Pacific and thus the European theater ended a good 5 months before the Pacific theater.  We didn't treat the Germans with a whole lot of respect coming out WW2 and during the Cold War.  That's part of the reason they decided to initiate the Euro some 50 years after the suicide of Hitler.  I can very easily see another German attack on France in the coming years and I can see them linking arms with Italy again and plunge the world back into World War 3 in the next 10-15 years.
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2010, 04:45:21 pm »
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Yes.

Yeah, what has Poland ever done for us?  And it's not like the west hasn't turned their collective backs on them before.  Really, the Kurds, Jews, etc should be used to it by now.

What exactly does Poland need defending from? Please don't make yourself into a joke by going on some delusional Putin/Russia rant.

Good point BRTD. I couldn't agree more.

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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2010, 04:47:14 pm »
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Yes.  And the US should withdraw from the UN.  The amount of taxpayer money we pour into that sh*thole of useless fail is treasonous.
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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2010, 05:23:35 pm »
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Yes. It is an entangling alliance, a militarist warmongering organisation and a waste of money.
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« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2010, 08:29:25 pm »
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Yes.  And the US should withdraw from the UN.  The amount of taxpayer money we pour into that sh*thole of useless fail is treasonous.

And so pouring taxpayer money into defending freedom, democracy, and human rights, as well as supporting our "allies," isn't?
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2010, 08:44:37 pm »
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Absolutely not.
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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2010, 03:58:17 am »
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Of course not; it should be expanded and have its mission reoriented.

It is expanding and its mission is being reoriented.
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« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2010, 05:16:26 am »
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Yeah, what has Poland ever done for us?  And it's not like the west hasn't turned their collective backs on them before.  Really, the Kurds, Jews, etc should be used to it by now.

How exactly does a missile shield in Poland or a billion dollars of aid to Israel benefit the American people?  If anything it just puts them at a greater risk.  The terrorist attacks on September 11th happened because of anti-American sentiment in the Middle East, which stems from our support for Israel, and our hand in the overthrow of Iran's democratically elected government, as well as half a million dead Iraqi children due to U.S. sanctions.
It doesn't benefit it us to have more alive Latvians and Finns?  Thanks for the history lesson though.
Yeah, what has Poland ever done for us?  And it's not like the west hasn't turned their collective backs on them before.  Really, the Kurds, Jews, etc should be used to it by now.

What exactly does Poland need defending from? Please don't make yourself into a joke by going on some delusional Putin/Russia rant.
Yeah, there is no chance in hell of the bear turning into a bigger dick if NATO goes away...no chance of that at all.

I'm glad the people you guys vote for have more balls than you do.
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« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2010, 12:02:45 pm »
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Yeah, what has Poland ever done for us?  And it's not like the west hasn't turned their collective backs on them before.  Really, the Kurds, Jews, etc should be used to it by now.

What exactly does Poland need defending from? Please don't make yourself into a joke by going on some delusional Putin/Russia rant.
Yeah, there is no chance in hell of the bear turning into a bigger dick if NATO goes away...no chance of that at all.

I'm glad the people you guys vote for have more balls than you do.

There is no chance of Russia invading Poland. The thought is downright comical. This reminds me of that troll with his "Russia will invade Alaska and Obama will do nothing about it" nonsense. Have you forgotten that Poland is an EU member, oh yeah that's right those Europeans are all wusses who always surrender. Actually the more relevant issue is that there is absolutely no reason or nothing to gain from Russia invading Poland, certainly nothing that would make up for their status as a pariah state afterwards that would result in an economic collapse, that they don't share a border (and no Belarus is not a Russian puppet state anymore than Canada is an American one) and that the Russian military can barely handle its own internal conflicts (they got beat by Chechnya for quite awhile.) Please note that even the Polish poster here knows that. I'm pretty sure if you were to poll Poland you'd find that fear of a Russian invasion is pretty low on their list of worries.

Seriously, if you think something this outrageous is likely you're going to need a more logical argument than "The leaders of Russia are dicks"
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« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2010, 12:23:08 pm »
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Yeah, what has Poland ever done for us?  And it's not like the west hasn't turned their collective backs on them before.  Really, the Kurds, Jews, etc should be used to it by now.

What exactly does Poland need defending from? Please don't make yourself into a joke by going on some delusional Putin/Russia rant.
Yeah, there is no chance in hell of the bear turning into a bigger dick if NATO goes away...no chance of that at all.

I'm glad the people you guys vote for have more balls than you do.

There is no chance of Russia invading Poland. The thought is downright comical. This reminds me of that troll with his "Russia will invade Alaska and Obama will do nothing about it" nonsense. Have you forgotten that Poland is an EU member, oh yeah that's right those Europeans are all wusses who always surrender. Actually the more relevant issue is that there is absolutely no reason or nothing to gain from Russia invading Poland, certainly nothing that would make up for their status as a pariah state afterwards that would result in an economic collapse, that they don't share a border (and no Belarus is not a Russian puppet state anymore than Canada is an American one) and that the Russian military can barely handle its own internal conflicts (they got beat by Chechnya for quite awhile.) Please note that even the Polish poster here knows that. I'm pretty sure if you were to poll Poland you'd find that fear of a Russian invasion is pretty low on their list of worries.

Seriously, if you think something this outrageous is likely you're going to need a more logical argument than "The leaders of Russia are dicks"

Russia does border Poland; and the EU is not a military alliance.

Anyway, while Russia isn't likely to invade, it does like sending subtle messages. Whether you agree with them or not, various eastern European countries remain, rightly or wrongly, concerned about Moscow.
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« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2010, 12:27:42 pm »
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Oh yeah they do have a border. Still that little exclave isn't a strong area to launch an invasion from. And the EU may not be military alliance, but it doesn't mean there would be serious economic repercussions for Russia. EU countries would also be giving tons of arms to the Poles and the guerrilla warfare there would be nasty. Worse than Chechnya because its a much larger country. Meanwhile they gain virtually nothing from it.
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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2010, 01:05:43 pm »
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Oh yeah they do have a border. Still that little exclave isn't a strong area to launch an invasion from.

Really? The home of the Russian Baltic Fleet, no fewer than 4 air bases, and 100,000 military personnel would be a particularly poor launching point?


And the EU may not be military alliance, but it doesn't mean there would be serious economic repercussions for Russia.

And serious economic reprecussions for Europe.
What would be the effect of Russia shutting down its gas supplies to Europe? That's where Russia's power lies at the moment viz viz Europe and as we've seen before, it's something they're willing to do.
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2010, 01:22:26 pm »
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It doesn't benefit it us to have more alive Latvians and Finns?  Thanks for the history lesson though.

How, exactly, does that benefit the American people?  Why should other countries not be allowed to resolve their own conflicts, without having the United States unfairly intervene on one side or the other?
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« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2010, 01:29:06 pm »
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Yeah, what has Poland ever done for us?  And it's not like the west hasn't turned their collective backs on them before.  Really, the Kurds, Jews, etc should be used to it by now.

What exactly does Poland need defending from? Please don't make yourself into a joke by going on some delusional Putin/Russia rant.

Yeah, there is no chance in hell of the bear turning into a bigger dick if NATO goes away...no chance of that at all.

No, there isn't. Don't use sarcasm to disguise idiocy.
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« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2010, 01:30:14 pm »
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Yeah, what has Poland ever done for us?  And it's not like the west hasn't turned their collective backs on them before.  Really, the Kurds, Jews, etc should be used to it by now.

What exactly does Poland need defending from? Please don't make yourself into a joke by going on some delusional Putin/Russia rant.

Yeah, there is no chance in hell of the bear turning into a bigger dick if NATO goes away...no chance of that at all.

No, there isn't. Don't use sarcasm to disguise idiocy.

You seem to have more faith in Putin than is warranted.
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« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2010, 01:31:13 pm »
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Yeah, what has Poland ever done for us?  And it's not like the west hasn't turned their collective backs on them before.  Really, the Kurds, Jews, etc should be used to it by now.

What exactly does Poland need defending from? Please don't make yourself into a joke by going on some delusional Putin/Russia rant.

Yeah, there is no chance in hell of the bear turning into a bigger dick if NATO goes away...no chance of that at all.

No, there isn't. Don't use sarcasm to disguise idiocy.

You seem to have more faith in Putin than is warranted.

Putin has never once made a stupid move. That's why he's in power today.
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« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2010, 01:41:22 pm »
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Yeah, what has Poland ever done for us?  And it's not like the west hasn't turned their collective backs on them before.  Really, the Kurds, Jews, etc should be used to it by now.

What exactly does Poland need defending from? Please don't make yourself into a joke by going on some delusional Putin/Russia rant.

Yeah, there is no chance in hell of the bear turning into a bigger dick if NATO goes away...no chance of that at all.

No, there isn't. Don't use sarcasm to disguise idiocy.

You seem to have more faith in Putin than is warranted.

Putin has never once made a stupid move. That's why he's in power today.

Sure, Putin knows how to hold onto and consolidate his own power.  This frequently does not intersect with Western interests. Without a strong counter balance I see no reason why Putin would not push his hand.
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