Are you getting ashes on your forehead today?

[Lief 🗽]

Our Vice President did. DID YOU?

[Electric Feel]

No. I'm not religious.

[John Dibble]

No, that's silly.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

no, I don't go to a church that does that sort of thing....IMO, kinda goes against the teaching about anointing your head in private...same could be said for announcing what one is going to give up for Lent...not sure how all this public display of humility was allowed to creep in.

but more power to them

[they don't love you like i love you]

No. I haven't seen a single person at my work yet with them either.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     No, though I haven't ever seen anyone under ~80 with ashes on his/her forehead anyway.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

That smudge looks more like a bruise received from being whacked in the forehead after yet another case of Biden foot-and-mouth.

[Lief 🗽]

     No, though I haven't ever seen anyone under ~80 with ashes on his/her forehead anyway.

About 10% of the student body had them today, I'd guess, plus a smattering of professors.

[Vepres]

I have yet to see one person here. I do live in a very secular area, which explains it I guess.

[they don't love you like i love you]

I remember seeing maybe a couple dozen students with them when I was in college. Literally no one at my work wears them. I didn't see anyone otherwise with them as well.

[Magic 8-Ball]

No.

The only time I've ever seen people do it was in college.

[12th Doctor]

no, I don't go to a church that does that sort of thing....IMO, kinda goes against the teaching about anointing your head in private...same could be said for announcing what one is going to give up for Lent...not sure how all this public display of humility was allowed to creep in.

but more power to them

Well, I agree.  As I had it explained to me by someone who knows, the original intent of the entire thing was the wash off the ashes, "wash your face, etc, etc" to symbolize the start of the season of fasting.  Not to wear the ashes around as a sign the fasting.  But much like meatless Fridays, the original meaning has been totally distorted and forgotten.

I for one also have a visceral reaction to most people "giving up" things, since it is rarely done without a self-interested motive (the Lent Diet Plan).  I always do something instead.  I won't say what, since you find such things hypocritical.

These are examples of unnecessary tradition that I think either needs to be explained, modified, or done away with.  Granted, it has been slightly modified, in the terms of ashes... they now say some fluff about being renewed with the Holy Spirit, rather than "Thou art dust and onto dust though shalt return" but that doesn't explain the point any better, it just sounds warm and fluffy, because we ought not to remind people of Generation Me that there are more important things than themselves.

[RI]

I just received them for the first time today.

[JSojourner]

We went last night.  It was a lovely and moving experience. 

To respond to a few of the better points made in this thread...

*  In the Episcopal Church, we still say..."remember that from dust you came and to dust you shall return".  (Though I suspect each parish or diocese may be free to change that with the Bishop's approval.)

*  The imposition of ashes is not a Biblical mandate, nor does the church claim that it is.  It is a suggestion, a recommendation and a possible aide in beginning one's Lenten journey.  There are examples in the Bible of repentance in "sackcloth and ashes".  And I'm okay with that, but I doubt anyone is calling for exactly that kind of ritual.  No one was handed a burlap bag and told to disrobe last night!  (Thank God!)

*  I have never been comfortable with the wearing of ashes publicly outside the church for reasons already enumerated by others. OTOH, I don't think I need obsess about it either.  I mean, my wife asked me to stop at Wendy's on the way home last night to get a drink and I didn't feel the need to rush into the rest room and wipe them off. I washed when I got home.

*  I like the church calendar (Advent, Epiphany, Lent, Passion week and Easter) because it represents a cycle and rhythm of life.  The ashes we impose, for example, are made from the burned palms used on the previous Palm Sunday. Lots of wonderful Christians find that just plain silly and that's fine.  I don't.  It's a comfort and an inspiration to me.

*  I am all for adding a discipline or behavior during Lent. In fact, I am doing just that.  I do, however, see great sense in giving something up.  The problem comes when one gives something up simply as a means of impressing others or currying favor with God.  (Neither happens!)  We give something meaningful up...not to kick the habit (though who knows, maybe that will be a fringe benefit)...but to be reminded that something is missing.  And when that missing something is longed for, to hopefully be prompted by the Holy Spirit to seek that which cannot fail to satisfy. When I crave that martini or can of soda, am I reminded of my own frailty?  If so, then I should turn to One who is unfailingly strong. When I am missing that rush I get from spending on little baubles at the mall (a friend is giving up unnecessary spending), am I reminded that it's pitiful to be rich in things but poor in soul? And do I turn to the One who, as the Bible says, "owns the cattle on the thousand hills"?

Giving something up to appear holy or spiritual has about as much positive use as having ashes smeared on your head. Giving something up so you are reminded of the sufficiency of Jesus is never a bad idea.  But yes, I do agree that one can experience all that without   this particular form of ritual.  It's just what helps me...and millions of others.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

OK, JSJ, I think you are adult enough to accept differences of opinion, so I am going to give you my take on all of this.  Though I could also direct my criticism to myself since we’re all guilty of clinging to shadows...

--- 

We went last night.  It was a lovely and moving experience. 

I could also say that spinning a pickle on my nose before praying makes for a moving experience in Christ, but was my moving experience due to the pickle or was it due to fact that I prayed?  I think that you would agree that our overall routine can be beneficial, but it can also contain elements (e.g. spinning the pickle) which are nothing but vanity and self imposed humility, which do nothing but clutter the path to Christ.  In such cases, we would be better off to remove the clutter.

---

*  The imposition of ashes is not a Biblical mandate, nor does the church claim that it is.  It is a suggestion, a recommendation and a possible aide in beginning one's Lenten journey.  There are examples in the Bible of repentance in "sackcloth and ashes".  And I'm okay with that, but I doubt anyone is calling for exactly that kind of ritual.  No one was handed a burlap bag and told to disrobe last night!  (Thank God!)

Just a week or two ago, you agreed that Christ came to remove the “ashes and sackcloth” from those who would believe.  So, how is it now that you are using the old testament practice of ashes and sackcloth as an excuse for Ash Wednesday?

---

*  I like the church calendar (Advent, Epiphany, Lent, Passion week and Easter) because it represents a cycle and rhythm of life. The ashes we impose, for example, are made from the burned palms used on the previous Palm Sunday. Lots of wonderful Christians find that just plain silly and that's fine.  I don't.  It's a comfort and an inspiration to me.
 

I do not believe Christ came to do away with the Old Testament holy days only to hand us another set of holy days to observe.

Gal 4:10 “You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.”

Rather I believe Christ gave us freedom from having to observe special symbolic days and has instead giving us the reality of a relationship with him so that everyday we may live for God:

 Rom 14:5 “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.”

So, if Christians are free to choose whether or not to observe special days, then we are free from having to observe special days. In other words, we are given the choice whether or not to spin a pickle on our nose.  Those who do choose to spin the pickle are neither condemned nor lost, they just aren’t living life as free as they can because they are relying on the pickle as a crutch.

---

Giving something up so you are reminded of the sufficiency of Jesus is never a bad idea.   But yes, I do agree that one can experience all that without   this particular form of ritual.  It's just what helps me...and millions of others.
 

There are many examples in the New Testament where the Apostles were jailed and stripped of all their possessions, and they gladly endured such hardships.  But I don’t recall a passage where any of them gave up anything in the voluntary manner you mention, UNLESS it was to provide for someone else (e.g. giving money to the poor).  To say that I am not going to buy a new suit, but rather I am going to deny myself and sacrifice buying a new suit in order to remind myself of the sufficiency of Jesus, is actually saying that Christ requires us to give him sacrifices as if such sacrifices serve him.  Might was well sleep naked on the floor, a practice you yourself opposed just a week or two ago.
 
In the New Testament, I find just the contrary: 

Mat 9:13 “But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'”

That’s why Paul was confused by the Galatians observance of special days.  Also, in the New Testament, I find that Christ sacrificed so that we might live.  I find that we ourselves are living sacrifices, having died with Christ and risen living a new life in him.  And the only sacrifices we are asked by the New Testament to give are the following:

Hebrews 13:15-16 Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise—the fruit of lips that confess his name.  And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

But, regarding the need for clutter...as Paul stated: 

Rom 14:5 “Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.”

[memphis]

Totally forgot about ash day. Explains why the Catholic High School near me had some creepy saying about returning to dust on their sign today.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

No, but I'm getting ashes for Christmas.

[Gren]

Yes, we got them today at our school's chapel.

[JSojourner]

Thanks Jm, for a thoughtful and in-depth response.  I appreciate your insights and respect them.  We disagree, of course, but that's because there is a fundamental difference in how we regard Scripture.  I really do respect that you honor it...and more, I appreciate that you respect that "everyone must be convinced in his own mind".

I sure hope my little tome didn't come off like I was saying everyone had to or should do the whole ritual thing. If it's not for you, by all means -- do whatever brings you closest to Jesus and avoid whatever hinders that intimacy.

(I do think most churches have some sort of ritual.  Even the Catholic-hating church I grew up in -- where they insisted there were no rituals of any kind -- urged members to stand up whenever someone read from the Bible.  They said it was a demonstration of holy reverence for the Bible.  Seemed liked a ritual to me, but potentially, a very helpful one. My sister's church proudly claims there are no rituals either and that nothing happens unless the Holy Spirit moves where it wills.  But I'm not sure what else to call it when every service opens with someone waving a banner with a dove on it over the congregation.  They have a worship team on stage leading singing, rather than using hymnals.  It's a kind of ritual. And there's a point in the service where people are supposed to hold hands and sing a song inviting the Holy Spirit to take control of their bodies and minds and so forth.  A Presbyterian Church I visited when I lived in Chicago was extremely dedicated to their roots in the Reformation and often railed against all things "popish" and ritualistic. There were no crosses, no candles, no communion table, no pulpit, no stained glass -- all because they deemed that ritualistic. And yet every service began and ended with the pastoral staff and whatever laypersons were helping with worship holding the Bible above their heads and processsing and recessing down the center aisle. I see nothing wrong with that. But it is a ritual...a way of doing things.)

I think the problem comes when our way of doing things becomes the object of worship, rather than the means to worship. And I have met plenty of liturgical folk (Roman Catholic, Episcopalian, Lutheran and Orthodox) who somehow believe that making the sign of the cross, observing Lent, using a prayer book or what have you is somehow something that earns them spiritual points.  A few even behave as though they are better than Christians, incuding those of their own denominations, who don't.  That really worries me.  LOL -- I remember one lady who just went off her nut one Ash Wednesday because the priest didn't ask the congregation to kneel. This is the same woman who went ballistic when I was asked to read the Passion Gospel at Good Friday...and yet I wasn't ordained.  A silly old rubric.

At the end of the day, the heart is what matters.  I want to worship in spirit and in truth,  and in my case (it may well be ADD), the little rituals help me maintain my focus, rather than thinking about what time kickoff is.

Unless, of course, it's a Cleveland-Pittburgh game.  In which case, I know God is just as concerned that we wrap up early as we are!  ::: runs :::

[Deldem]

I know people do it, but they generally go to church after school ends, so I don't really see it much.

[Bo]

No. What a stupid thread.

[The Mikado]

No. What a stupid thread.

Either you're a total bigot or a moron.  For your sake, I hope its the latter.

EDIT:  I was referring to the phrase, "what a stupid thread."

[Bo]

Didn't Biden get shes on hsi forehead by accident? Or am I missing something?

[The Mikado]

Didn't Biden get shes on hsi forehead by accident? Or am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing something.  Yesterday was Ash Wednesday.

Sorry for overreacting, but saying "what a stupid thread" really annoyed me.

[Bo]

Didn't Biden get shes on hsi forehead by accident? Or am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing something.  Yesterday was Ash Wednesday.

Sorry for overreacting, but saying "what a stupid thread" really annoyed me.

I just thought that Biden accidentally got the ashes on his face. I also know that Kay Burley mistook them for a bruise. Only know did I know that Biden received his ashes to mark the start of Lenten season, a practice which I have actually never heard of. I guess you learn something new every day.