Are American ghettos completely beyond hope?

[memphis]

Just about every city has substantial neighborhoods that are in utter ruin. Despite some gentrification here and there, I don't see much reason to believe that this will ever change. With the $8000 tax credit, there are houses that are free, and nobody wants them. Thoughts?

[Alcon]

I have a question that's probably dumb, but there are no ghettos where I'm from.  This street block looks pretty damn well-kept for a place where several houses are selling for under $2,000.  How?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Even the ghettos around here have houses going for $400k. The housing market is just absurd.

[memphis]

Even the ghettos around here have houses going for $400k. The housing market is just absurd.

Overpopulation's a b!tch, isn't it?

[Хahar 🤔]

Even the ghettos around here have houses going for $400k. The housing market is just absurd.

Overpopulation's a b!tch, isn't it?

Not overpopulation so much as hypergentrification.

[memphis]

Even the ghettos around here have houses going for $400k. The housing market is just absurd.

Overpopulation's a b!tch, isn't it?

Not overpopulation so much as hypergentrification.

If it's hypergentrified, it's not ghetto.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

No, ghettos are great places to live if you're young and like to throw loud parties without the cops showing up. There's a punk house in Minneapolis in a ghetto exactly for that reason: So they can have illegal house shows without being harassed. They have yet to been harassed.

[memphis]

Although this is much more Northern style than the type of ghettos I instinctually think about, it gets the point across:

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Although this is much more Northern style than the type of ghettos I instinctually think about, it gets the point across:

That looks like the first neighborhood I lived in.

[Vepres]

Maybe if the cities actually made an effort to make these areas at least look nice, the ghettos would improve a bit.

[Linus Van Pelt]

I have a question that's probably dumb, but there are no ghettos where I'm from.  This street block looks pretty damn well-kept for a place where several houses are selling for under $2,000.  How?

There are certainly parts of Detroit that aren't in collapse, especially in the northwest where that's photo's from (see later post on this), even if they're not exactly thriving. For a little stereotype-busting, consider that the total white population of Detroit and that of Tacoma are actually quite similar.
12%*912,000 = 109,000
60%*197,000 = 118,000
Plus of course many blacks aren't in severe poverty.


To answer the question: no. There are sort of two processes that can happen: one is that the middle-class are persuaded to stay in (or move back into) the city, and certainly this has happened in some cities where economic conditions merit, most notably New York. A key prerequisite is that public schools meet a certain minimal standard. But also, neighbourhoods can be revitalized by immigration, even when the people are quite low-income; this is one of the big reasons much of L.A. has got a lot safer.

[memphis]

Maybe if the cities actually made an effort to make these areas at least look nice, the ghettos would improve a bit.

We've tried everything. Code enforcement, urban renewal, preservation, tax incentives, community/church involvement, etc. This sh!t never gets any better.

[Alcon]

I have a question that's probably dumb, but there are no ghettos where I'm from.  This street block looks pretty damn well-kept for a place where several houses are selling for under $2,000.  How?

There are certainly parts of Detroit that aren't in collapse, especially in the northwest where that's photo's from, even if they're not exactly thriving. For a little stereotype-busting, consider that the total white population of Detroit and that of Tacoma are actually quite similar.
12%*912,000 = 109,000
60%*197,000 = 118,000
Plus of course many blacks aren't in severe poverty.

Thanks -- I knew there are quite a few whites in Detroit, although I had no idea where they were concentrated.  It was the price on that northwestern block that surprised me. Are these $2,000 houses in the less collapsed areas a steal?  Or is "uncollapsed" a relative term?  I can't imagine a Detroit postal address is that toxic.

[Linus Van Pelt]

I have a question that's probably dumb, but there are no ghettos where I'm from.  This street block looks pretty damn well-kept for a place where several houses are selling for under $2,000.  How?

There are certainly parts of Detroit that aren't in collapse, especially in the northwest where that's photo's from, even if they're not exactly thriving. For a little stereotype-busting, consider that the total white population of Detroit and that of Tacoma are actually quite similar.
12%*912,000 = 109,000
60%*197,000 = 118,000
Plus of course many blacks aren't in severe poverty.

Thanks -- I knew there are quite a few whites in Detroit, although I had no idea where they were concentrated.  It was the price on that northwestern block that surprised me. Are these $2,000 houses in the less collapsed areas a steal?  Or is "uncollapsed" a relative term?  I can't imagine a Detroit postal address is that toxic.

Oh, so the $2000 house is in the same specific area as that photo? Sorry, I thought you meant the city. In which case, I don't really have any idea. Is the property itself abandoned and in disrepair? If so, it might be essentially worthless in a place where houses are so cheap anyway.

Edit: Actually, I think you can see the thing itself by clicking on the link to the left of the picture, and assuming it's that green one, it appears to be a complete dump.

[Alcon]

I have a question that's probably dumb, but there are no ghettos where I'm from.  This street block looks pretty damn well-kept for a place where several houses are selling for under $2,000.  How?

There are certainly parts of Detroit that aren't in collapse, especially in the northwest where that's photo's from, even if they're not exactly thriving. For a little stereotype-busting, consider that the total white population of Detroit and that of Tacoma are actually quite similar.
12%*912,000 = 109,000
60%*197,000 = 118,000
Plus of course many blacks aren't in severe poverty.

Thanks -- I knew there are quite a few whites in Detroit, although I had no idea where they were concentrated.  It was the price on that northwestern block that surprised me. Are these $2,000 houses in the less collapsed areas a steal?  Or is "uncollapsed" a relative term?  I can't imagine a Detroit postal address is that toxic.

Oh, so the $2000 house is in the same specific area as that photo? Sorry, I thought you meant the city. In which case, I don't really have any idea. Is the property itself abandoned and in disrepair? If so, it might be essentially worthless in a place where houses are so cheap anyway.

Edit: Actually, I think you can see the thing itself by clicking on the link to the left of the picture, and assuming it's that green one, it appears to be a complete dump.

Yep, that one does.  There are a few down the street or elsewhere that look fine and don't mention work needed.  Then again, I suppose when you get down to $2k the whole idea of "as-is" is pretty implicit.

[Linus Van Pelt]

I have a question that's probably dumb, but there are no ghettos where I'm from.  This street block looks pretty damn well-kept for a place where several houses are selling for under $2,000.  How?

There are certainly parts of Detroit that aren't in collapse, especially in the northwest where that's photo's from, even if they're not exactly thriving. For a little stereotype-busting, consider that the total white population of Detroit and that of Tacoma are actually quite similar.
12%*912,000 = 109,000
60%*197,000 = 118,000
Plus of course many blacks aren't in severe poverty.

Thanks -- I knew there are quite a few whites in Detroit, although I had no idea where they were concentrated.  It was the price on that northwestern block that surprised me. Are these $2,000 houses in the less collapsed areas a steal?  Or is "uncollapsed" a relative term?  I can't imagine a Detroit postal address is that toxic.

Oh, so the $2000 house is in the same specific area as that photo? Sorry, I thought you meant the city. In which case, I don't really have any idea. Is the property itself abandoned and in disrepair? If so, it might be essentially worthless in a place where houses are so cheap anyway.

Edit: Actually, I think you can see the thing itself by clicking on the link to the left of the picture, and assuming it's that green one, it appears to be a complete dump.

Yep, that one does.  There are a few down the street or elsewhere that look fine and don't mention work needed.  Then again, I suppose when you get down to $2k the whole idea of "as-is" is pretty implicit.

Yeah, who knows.

But FWIW, I think in looking at the map quickly I was wrong on the area here, this is still pretty central and pretty bad - for "relatively uncollapsed" you have to go much further northwest.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=16734+asbury+park+detroit+mi&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=16734+Asbury+Park,+Detroit,+Wayne,+Michigan+48235&gl=us&ei=eOCNS62BB8_QlAea8fWTDQ&ved=0CAcQ8gEwAA&z=16&layer=c&cbll=42.412935,-83.208926&panoid=tBX1b9dndig7lpJBX0D6dA&cbp=12,76.56,,0,5

[Bo]

No.

[Torie]

Hardcore ghettos are disappearing in SoCal due to the "Hispanicization" of poorer zip codes. The neighborhoods in which they live tend to be full of commercial activity and relatively safe. At least I wander around them without much worry from time to time. I think there is a lot of hope actually.

[Linus Van Pelt]

Hardcore ghettos are disappearing in SoCal due to the "Hispanicization" of poorer zip codes. The neighborhoods in which they live tend to be full of commercial activity and relatively safe. At least I wander around them without much worry from time to time. I think there is a lot of hope actually.

Yeah, this is a pretty interesting trend. A culture in which it's normal to hang out on the sidewalk talking  rather than automatically going indoors has quite an effect on the feel of things.

[Stranger in a strange land]

Hardcore ghettos are disappearing in SoCal due to the "Hispanicization" of poorer zip codes. The neighborhoods in which they live tend to be full of commercial activity and relatively safe. At least I wander around them without much worry from time to time. I think there is a lot of hope actually.

Yeah, this is a pretty interesting trend. A culture in which it's normal to hang out on the sidewalk talking  rather than automatically going indoors has quite an effect on the feel of things.

that actually sounds a lot like the area I lived in NOVA last year.

[Alcon]

I guess this is a good occasion to ask another stupid northerner question.  Why is El Paso, despite being right across the river from Ciuadad Juarez, one of the safest big cities in the U.S.?  It's safer than New York, and has a murder rate about half of the national average.

It seems that Mexican communities, when they're not run over with gangs, are pretty astoundingly safe -- more even than whites of similar incomes and community stabilities.  But everyone I've asked about this around here wonders if there's some taboo around reporting crime to account for this, or something.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

For the most part there's only one solution; slum clearance. Rip them down, build new (and better) houses. Anything else is window dressing, and window dressing that directly contributes to shorter and more miserable lives.

[opebo]

Just about every city has substantial neighborhoods that are in utter ruin. Despite some gentrification here and there, I don't see much reason to believe that this will ever change. With the $8000 tax credit, there are houses that are free, and nobody wants them. Thoughts?

Not as long as the power hierarchy is in place which creates ghettos, memphis. 

And you're wrong, Al, 'slum clearance' doesn't make a place not a ghetto.  What nonsense - it doesn't matter how new are the houses.  Political power (money) to the denizens makes a place not a ghetto.

[dead0man]

You really do need a new shtick.  But I suppose you can't quit with nobody else here to play that role for us.  Maybe one of our sock friends can help us out here?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

And you're wrong, Al, 'slum clearance' doesn't make a place not a ghetto.

You think that the slum dweller makes the slum then?

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Decent houses = more power (in various different ways) to the people that live in them. Obviously that wouldn't be a solution to the complicated trap that most blacks are caught in, but it'd be a big improvement in quite a few ways. Though, obviously, there's no chance of it happening any time in the next few decades for the usual reasons...