Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 20, 2014, 11:09:24 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  Atlas Fantasy Elections
| |-+  Atlas Fantasy Government (Moderators: Gustaf, MasterJedi)
| | |-+  Demrepdan's final changes
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 Print
Author Topic: Demrepdan's final changes  (Read 12204 times)
MAS117
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5289
United States


View Profile
« on: March 10, 2004, 11:52:34 pm »
Ignore

Demrepdan-

Make final changes to your constitution (ie removing the House of Rep. part and change what we voted on in dunn's thread the initial vote for the constitution. Present the forum with a final product so we can vote on it and offically swear in the President, Vice President, and Cabinet members.
Logged
Nym90
nym90
Modadmin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15159
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -2.96

P P P

View Profile
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2004, 12:06:02 am »
Ignore

Sounds like a good plan to me. Smiley I support this.
Logged
Demrepdan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1320


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2004, 12:57:51 am »
Ignore

So far the only change that I must make to my constitution is the Legislature. I need to give ALL power to the Senate. However, the rules for impeachment may change a bit......

Everyone agreed on 5 regions....everyone agreed on governors......everyone agreed on the Supreme Court....so those aspects of my Constitution won't change. However, I want to make sure ALL lose ends are closed up. Does everyone approve of my elections rules?

51 Posts to be President.......30 Posts to be Senator...18 Posts to vote......must register 10 days before any election......all candidates must announce their candidacy 20 days before any election (Of course if you're running as a Democrat or Republican you may have to register sooner for the Primary....in which case each political party must have their nominee placed on the ballot 20 days before the election.)  If you want any change on these rules......please inform me.....

Also...what about my rules for the terms......ALL senate seats are up at the SAME time....Presidential Elections occur every 4 months. Senate elections occur every 4 months (I might change it to 2 months since we won't have a House of Representatives.) All appointed officers will be in their office at the President's will.......and how about the BIG one....that people may complain about.......my 2 consecutive term rule?

Some people have said they wish to see a ONE term rule......and you cannot run EVER again after one term (I think this is just plain stupid). Some have said....you can't serve more than ONE consecutive term....meaning after 4 months your time is up....and you must wait another 4 months to run...(more reasonable....but I still don't like it much). Some have suggested that you can't serve more than 2 terms....and then never again......

I need final approval on how long the President serves.....so everyone tell me how it should be......as you did in the other thread....

Before you vote.....keep these things in mind...

1. You may think it is fair for the President to serve and then never serve again....because then it will allow more
opportunity for people to serve as President.......but that means that sooner or later EVERYONE who wants to be President will get a shot at being President.....even if they don't deserve it......why? because everyone who was a good President has served....and can never run again due to a stupid term limit rule. Giving term limits to make it FAIR doesn't really make it FAIR. I'm all for fair elections.....everyone deserves a shot to get involved in Fantasy Politics........but how could the MAJORITY of you be against the House of Representatives (which would undoubtedly allow more opportunity for involvement in Fantasy Politics)...but you're FOR the term limits??

You're saying one thing and doing another.....you like term limits because it allows more people a shot at the Presidency and their involvement in the Fantasy Elections......but you are against the House of Representatives which would insure more chances for people to hold a position in the Fantasy Elections.


2. The reason I wrote in that the President can not serve more than two consecutive terms is because it WOULD allow (as we all want) more opportunity for people to run.....but if that President wants to run again in the future.....let it be the people who decide if he or she deserves another shot...(remember....he has to get through his political party first). Adding term limits takes away all competition.....why run for the office? Youíre just gonna get to be President sooner or later....once everyone has had a shot....

Anyway....would every please state which you are for....


Plan One: President cannot serve more than 2 consecutive terms (My Current Plan)
Plan Two: President cannot serve more than 2 terms. (Can never run again after 2 terms)
Plan Three: President cannot serve more than 1 consecutive term. (President must wait 4 months to run again)
Plan Four: President cannot serve more than 1 term. (One term and youíre out forever.)
Plan Five: NO term limits whatsoever. (President can serve as many terms in a row as he wishes.)


My intension at the moment is to make the same rules apply for the Vice President as President......so if you vote for plan 4.....thatís how it will be for the Vice President too...(if youíre that staunch about allowing everyone a shot at the Presidency....you should be equally abhorred with the Vice President's term in office....)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2004, 01:03:06 am by Demrepdan »Logged

Moderately-Liberal Progressive Populist Libertarian Democrat.
MAS117
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5289
United States


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2004, 02:41:33 am »
Ignore

plan 2
everything llookds good
Logged
Platypus
hughento
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21313
Australia


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2004, 02:45:10 am »
Ignore

Not everyone agreed on a supreme court, but whatever :p

I'll give my personal follow up to your questions Smiley

I agree with the posts/time requirements

Senate seats need to be staggered, absolutely. If the presidential election is every four months, this is a plan that would work (although I'd prefer elections every fortnight)

Start of first Month: Presidential election
Start of second month: Senatorial regions 1,2,3 Senators "A"
Start of third month: Senatorial regions 4,5 Senator "A"; Senatorial regions 1,2 Senator "B"
Start of fourth month: Senatorial regions 3,4,5 Senator "B".

This is an election every month, with three sentors for second and fourth, and four for the third (midterm) election, one for all but 1 region.

Trust me here, 2 months with no elections will get boring very very quickly
Logged

Demrepdan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1320


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2004, 02:45:53 am »
Ignore

I vote for Plan One.

Senate terms should be four months, with half the Senate elected every two months.
There should be 35 posts to be president., to keep with the analogy.
Impeachment should require 50% to institute and 3/4 for a conviction, as in real life, with a mock trial in between the votes.

It's actually 2/3 vote need for conviction....not 3/4....if you want to keep the analogy......
« Last Edit: March 11, 2004, 02:46:20 am by Demrepdan »Logged

Moderately-Liberal Progressive Populist Libertarian Democrat.
Platypus
hughento
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21313
Australia


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2004, 02:51:25 am »
Ignore

I like two consecutive term rule, but we need a limit of total possible terms.

Perhaps three, so that they can run as a VP candidate? Because they aren't allowed to be consecutive, it would make them wait for a term so there couldn't just be a ticket switch.
Logged

Demrepdan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1320


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2004, 03:05:22 am »
Ignore

Oh yeah......one more thing in which I need everyone's opinion on.......do you think in SPECIAL cases......the public should have a say (vote)?

Like......in order for someone to be impeached.....the Chief Justice of the Forum.....OR the President Pro Tempore of the Forum must call for the impeachment of the person......and then conduct a POLL to the people......if the poll gets the majority for YES on impeachment......then the person is impeached......and then the SENATE must REMOVE the person from office......with 2/3'rds vote? How does that idea sound to you guys?

And how about in the case of Regional Redistribution......or Amendment Ratification? Should the public vote on that.....and all that be needed is a majority vote with the poll......but it does not FULLY pass unless the SENATE votes 2/3rds? But both the public and Senate must pass it....

How does that sound?

Or should the SENATE have total control of everything??

This idea of the public's involvement almost sounds like the House of Representatives.....so maybe it's not a good idea.....

Let me know what you guys think....

Keep in mind the public would only have a say (vote) in CERTAIN situations....such as the ones aforementioned.

« Last Edit: March 11, 2004, 03:08:15 am by Demrepdan »Logged

Moderately-Liberal Progressive Populist Libertarian Democrat.
farewell
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58527
India


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2004, 03:11:15 am »
Ignore

I vote for Plan One.

Senate terms should be four months, with half the Senate elected every two months.
There should be 35 posts to be president., to keep with the analogy.
Impeachment should require 50% to institute and 3/4 for a conviction, as in real life, with a mock trial in between the votes.

It's actually 2/3 vote need for conviction....not 3/4....if you want to keep the analogy......
It's a typo...
Logged

I may conceivably reconsider.

Knowing me it's more likely than not.
dunn
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3080


P
View Profile
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2004, 05:21:42 am »
Ignore

the votes on what we want is still not over
Logged

Keep your eyes on the stars, and your feet on the ground - TR
Emsworth
Lord Emsworth
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9081


Political Matrix
E: 8.32, S: -7.22

View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2004, 06:48:46 am »
Ignore

Before we continue, I wish to move some amendments that are merely for the sake of form - I hope that the others would pardon me for nitpicking. Firstly, Article II, Section 1, Clauses 2; Article II, Section 2, Clause 4; and Article V, Clause 1 all use the second person. I suggest that these clauses be changed into the third person as follows:

II.i.2: From "No person shall be President unless they have an avatar declaring a residency in the United States.  If you live outside of the United States this does not rule you ineligible from the office of President, however, you must first establish a residency by putting up an avatar declaring which state you are from " To "No person shall be President unless he or she has an avatar declaring a residence in the United States." I feel that the second sentence is unnecessary, as the first already states that an "avatar," not actual residence, is necessary.

II.ii.4 From "All elections must be public vote. You must also have an avatar from the United States,
and declare which state you are casting your vote from. Vote casts are official, once the ballot has been cast you may not ask for a new one. " To "All elections must be public vote. No person shall vote unless he or she shall have avatar declaring the state from which the vote is cast. All votes cast shall be deemed official and may not be amended or rescinded by the voters."

V.1 From "No person shall ever hold duel [sic] offices at the forum. If you desire to hold a new position you must first resign from your old position before taking office. All elected and appointed
officials must be sworn in before they can exercise any of their duties. The oath they must take is as follows; I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of (office name), and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the Atlas Forum, so help me Dave." To "No person shall ever hold two offices at the forum, save that an member of the Senate shall serve as its President [pro tempore]. Any person desiring to take a new position shall first resign from their previous position before taking office. All elected and appointed officials shall take an oath or make an affirmation before taking office, the said oath or affirmation being: [...]"
Logged
dunn
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3080


P
View Profile
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2004, 07:01:19 am »
Ignore

with changes from uni-cahmber to 'so help me dave' it is a mix of the progressive party's draft ans Demrepdan.

as fot president's term I vot prop.1 which is the one on both drafts.

Logged

Keep your eyes on the stars, and your feet on the ground - TR
YRABNNRM
YoungRepub
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10796
United States
Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: -6.09

View Profile
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2004, 12:08:43 pm »
Ignore

So far the only change that I must make to my constitution is the Legislature. I need to give ALL power to the Senate. However, the rules for impeachment may change a bit......

Everyone agreed on 5 regions....everyone agreed on governors......everyone agreed on the Supreme Court....so those aspects of my Constitution won't change. However, I want to make sure ALL lose ends are closed up. Does everyone approve of my elections rules?

51 Posts to be President.......30 Posts to be Senator...18 Posts to vote......must register 10 days before any election......all candidates must announce their candidacy 20 days before any election (Of course if you're running as a Democrat or Republican you may have to register sooner for the Primary....in which case each political party must have their nominee placed on the ballot 20 days before the election.)  If you want any change on these rules......please inform me.....

Also...what about my rules for the terms......ALL senate seats are up at the SAME time....Presidential Elections occur every 4 months. Senate elections occur every 4 months (I might change it to 2 months since we won't have a House of Representatives.) All appointed officers will be in their office at the President's will.......and how about the BIG one....that people may complain about.......my 2 consecutive term rule?

Some people have said they wish to see a ONE term rule......and you cannot run EVER again after one term (I think this is just plain stupid). Some have said....you can't serve more than ONE consecutive term....meaning after 4 months your time is up....and you must wait another 4 months to run...(more reasonable....but I still don't like it much). Some have suggested that you can't serve more than 2 terms....and then never again......

I need final approval on how long the President serves.....so everyone tell me how it should be......as you did in the other thread....

Before you vote.....keep these things in mind...

1. You may think it is fair for the President to serve and then never serve again....because then it will allow more
opportunity for people to serve as President.......but that means that sooner or later EVERYONE who wants to be President will get a shot at being President.....even if they don't deserve it......why? because everyone who was a good President has served....and can never run again due to a stupid term limit rule. Giving term limits to make it FAIR doesn't really make it FAIR. I'm all for fair elections.....everyone deserves a shot to get involved in Fantasy Politics........but how could the MAJORITY of you be against the House of Representatives (which would undoubtedly allow more opportunity for involvement in Fantasy Politics)...but you're FOR the term limits??

You're saying one thing and doing another.....you like term limits because it allows more people a shot at the Presidency and their involvement in the Fantasy Elections......but you are against the House of Representatives which would insure more chances for people to hold a position in the Fantasy Elections.


2. The reason I wrote in that the President can not serve more than two consecutive terms is because it WOULD allow (as we all want) more opportunity for people to run.....but if that President wants to run again in the future.....let it be the people who decide if he or she deserves another shot...(remember....he has to get through his political party first). Adding term limits takes away all competition.....why run for the office? Youíre just gonna get to be President sooner or later....once everyone has had a shot....

Anyway....would every please state which you are for....


Plan One: President cannot serve more than 2 consecutive terms (My Current Plan)
Plan Two: President cannot serve more than 2 terms. (Can never run again after 2 terms)
Plan Three: President cannot serve more than 1 consecutive term. (President must wait 4 months to run again)
Plan Four: President cannot serve more than 1 term. (One term and youíre out forever.)
Plan Five: NO term limits whatsoever. (President can serve as many terms in a row as he wishes.)


My intension at the moment is to make the same rules apply for the Vice President as President......so if you vote for plan 4.....thatís how it will be for the Vice President too...(if youíre that staunch about allowing everyone a shot at the Presidency....you should be equally abhorred with the Vice President's term in office....)

Plan One
Logged
ilikeverin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15236
Timor-Leste


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2004, 12:15:30 pm »
Ignore

I too vote Plan 1
Logged

Chief Judicial Officer of the Most Serene Republic of the Midwest, registered in the State of Joy, in Atlasia
Recognized National Treasure of Atlasia
Nation
of_thisnation
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5587
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.06, S: 1.14

View Profile
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2004, 01:05:38 pm »
Ignore

I support plan one, I guess.

I also like your method impeachment, Dan. I think most people would agree that that is fair.

Once the Constitution is finally figured out, I think we should talk about an 'event writer' of some sort to come up with scenarios and events, etc, for the the Atlas Administration.
Logged

i dont know, but i've been told
that a yankee politician ain't got no soul
Gustaf
Moderator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 26550


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

View Profile
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2004, 03:41:49 pm »

I, after some hesitation, vote plan 1. I oppose the state avatar requirement, we didn't have that for the last election, no need to change it.
Logged

This place really has become a cesspool of degenerate whores...

Economic score: +0.9
Social score: -2.61

In MN for fantasy stuff, member of the most recently dissolved centrist party.
Huckleberry Finn
Finn
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1821


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2004, 04:13:07 pm »
Ignore

I vote for plan 2
 
I also would suggest following

200 posts to be President or Judge of Supreme Court
100 posts to be Senator or Governor
50 posts to vote

Why? You can make 35 posts in day. But it takes more time to get really into the Fantasy Election.
Logged

I live in Finland. I vote Conservatives (National Coalition Party) in Finnish elections, but consider myself as moderate Democrat in the USA.

In New York for the purpose of Fantasy Elections.
MAS117
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5289
United States


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2004, 05:19:53 pm »
Ignore

I vote for plan 2
 
I also would suggest following

200 posts to be President or Judge of Supreme Court
100 posts to be Senator or Governor
50 posts to vote

Why? You can make 35 posts in day. But it takes more time to get really into the Fantasy Election.

I agree with everything besides 50 votes to post, if you are resigestered and you have lik 30 thats ok...
Logged
Demrepdan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1320


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2004, 10:03:42 pm »
Ignore

I never wanted to have the 35 posts to keep the analogy to real life. 35 posts would make you a Newbie....and I don't think ANY newbie should have the chance at the Presidency....

So how about this..... 101 Posts to be President or Supreme Court Justice.....(that would make you a Full Member) ....51 Posts to be in the Senate....(that would make you a Junior Member).......and 18 to 20 posts to vote.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2004, 10:04:16 pm by Demrepdan »Logged

Moderately-Liberal Progressive Populist Libertarian Democrat.
MAS117
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5289
United States


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2004, 10:06:21 pm »
Ignore

I never wanted to have the 35 posts to keep the analogy to real life. 35 posts would make you a Newbie....and I don't think ANY newbie should have the chance at the Presidency....

So how about this..... 101 Posts to be President or Supreme Court Justice.....(that would make you a Full Member) ....51 Posts to be in the Senate....(that would make you a Junior Member).......and 18 to 20 posts to vote.

sounds good
Logged
Demrepdan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1320


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2004, 10:20:12 pm »
Ignore

Here's another thing I forgot to ask you guys........who should be the leader of the Senate in the absences of the VP.......the President Pro Tempore of the Senate.......or should we have a Speaker of the Senate...or perhaps BOTH......or maybe a President Pro Tem of the Senate and a Speaker of the Forum? Or.....what....??
« Last Edit: March 11, 2004, 10:22:28 pm by Demrepdan »Logged

Moderately-Liberal Progressive Populist Libertarian Democrat.
Demrepdan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1320


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2004, 10:43:25 pm »
Ignore

Another thing.........*sigh*.......since you guys voted against the creation of the House of Representatives....I was thinking of boosting up the number of the Senate.......instead of 2 Senators per region......(making it 10 Senators in all)........I was thinking of making it FOUR Senators per region (making it 20 Senators in all)...which would allow more people to have a Senate seat.....and also have more voices in the Legislative body. Because lets face it......a 10 member Senate is more like a council....and not a legislative body.....

And if you don't like 4 Senators per region...how about at least 3? However, with 3 Senators that would make it 15 total Senators...which would mean we would NEVER need the VP to break a tie.....unless some Senators don't vote on a bill or something.....

But again...I strongly support 4 Senators per regions (20 total Senators)....the less Senators we have.......the more of a council it looks like.....
« Last Edit: March 11, 2004, 10:47:36 pm by Demrepdan »Logged

Moderately-Liberal Progressive Populist Libertarian Democrat.
12th Doctor
supersoulty
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 20702
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: 1.38, S: -1.74

View Profile
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2004, 10:52:03 pm »
Ignore

Another thing.........*sigh*.......since you guys voted against the creation of the House of Representatives....I was thinking of boosting up the number of the Senate.......instead of 2 Senators per region......(making it 10 Senators in all)........I was thinking of making it FOUR Senators per region (making it 20 Senators in all)...which would allow more people to have a Senate seat.....and also have more voices in the Legislative body. Because lets face it......a 10 member Senate is more like a council....and not a legislative body.....

And if you don't like 4 Senators per region...how about at least 3? However, with 3 Senators that would make it 15 total Senators...which would mean we would NEVER need the VP to break a tie.....unless some Senators don't vote on a bill or something.....

But again...I strongly support 4 Senators per regions (20 total Senators)....the less Senators we have.......the more of a council it looks like.....

I wish to stick with two.
Logged

Peter
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6064


Political Matrix
E: -0.77, S: -7.48

View Profile
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2004, 10:55:18 pm »
Ignore

If we do four we could stagger them at one election a month.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2004, 10:56:33 pm by Peter Bell »Logged

Retarded babies should be fed to crocodiles.
Beet
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15634


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2004, 10:57:01 pm »
Ignore

I support staying with 2.
Logged

Brian Schweitzer '16
Pages: [1] 2 3 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines