The Imperial Dominion of the South's Legislature
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 18, 2024, 10:37:58 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Government
  Regional Governments (Moderators: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee, Lumine)
  The Imperial Dominion of the South's Legislature
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 100 101 102 103 104 [105] 106 107 108 109 110 ... 170
Author Topic: The Imperial Dominion of the South's Legislature  (Read 295343 times)
Yelnoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2600 on: May 19, 2012, 03:54:58 PM »

The problem with pushing the language requirements back to middle school is that you are forcing middle schools to hire more language teachers, necessitating more spending.  Meanwhile, poor high school will likely fire their foreign language department.  I do like the idea of making language learning more available in earlier years, I'm just not sure that top-down mandates will have the desired effect.

On the topic of wasted time in language learning, the problem is in the method.  School language classes emphasize learning grammar and reading, while speaking is almost entirely overlooked.  Nobody wants to read passages out of the book for fear of mispronouncing words and, since this is usually the only time the language is spoken aloud barring speaking finals (which most people fail), the language is never spoken.  You can't learn to speak without speaking!!!  So if we are interested in producing generations of bilingual* students we will need to completely change the way we change languages.

That isn't to say the current school setting is not without benefits.  A lot of people who have taken multiple years of language in high school know a lot of the language; they just cannot process another speaker and then find the relevant response in the other language quickly enough to hold a conversation.  To take a break from Atlasia for a moment, you guys really ought to check out Fluentin3Months.  This guy is fluent in eight languages and has learned half a dozen others in three month challenges which he blogs about.  He just completed learning Mandarin Chinese in three months which require total immersion and dedication coupled with constantly trying to speak every person he met while staying in Taiwan.  Obviously those conditions cannot be replicated in a classroom setting and as a forum game it's not like we can create a commission to find better ways to learn languages, so I'm at a loss as to how to make our language classes better teachers of language.  Perhaps we shouldn't try meddling with those sorts of specification and leave that up to the school districts?

I actually support Hagrid's original suggestion.  He merely stipulated that Spanish had to be one of the three languages offered by a school, not that everyone has to take Spanish.  Over 10% of Americans (+30 million) speak Spanish, so it is a very good language to know even for people who never plan on travelling abroad.  If you do though, Spanish opens up almost the entire western hemisphere.  Additionally, because of the large hispanic minority in the United States, it should be easy for schools to find Spanish instructors regardless of their location.  I cannot think of anywhere in America where three languages barring English are more spoken than Spanish. 

As to how long students should be required to take a language, I stand by two years.  It's the current requirement in Georgian schools, which I think works well.  If the student is not interested in language he does not have to take a third year.  And if he really wants to learn his target language, he can take a language class every year.  Make language optional and you will have a number of IDS students unable to get into prestigious colleges because they do not meet foreign language requirements.  For example, the University of Georgia requires two years of language in high school, but unless some other part of your application stands out, you won't get in unless you have three years.

*The definition of fluency is contentious.  When I say bilingual I don't mean a person who grew up speaking two languages, but rather the speaker of one language who speaks a second well enough to be mistaken for a native.
Logged
HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,717
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2601 on: May 19, 2012, 04:23:40 PM »

So we emphasize foreign language options in middle school, cut the mandatory language courses down to two years in high school, and isolate Spanish as an important language to learn?

I could get behind that.

But you are right about the staffing issues, Yelnoc. To sidetrack a bit... Ontario barely has enough French teachers. So to encourage people to go into teaching French, teacher education programs are really compromising on their requirements. So the quality of French teachers is horrendous--you are garaunteed a job if you want to teach French and there is zero competition.

I think your suggestions strike a good balance and would avoid this problem.
Logged
Donerail
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,345
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2602 on: May 19, 2012, 04:49:04 PM »

University of Florida requires three, I believe, while my school district mandates three to graduate, which is my logic for setting it to three. I hadn't considered precisely how; I was going to leave it up to the school districts. As to Spanish/other languages, I didn't want to put in a mandate of what language the school offers; if they can't find a Spanish-speaking person for some reason, I don't want to punish them because they could only find French, Malay, and Swahili teachers.
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Atlas Politician
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,111
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2603 on: May 19, 2012, 05:33:38 PM »

     Yelnoc is right, language schooling in the United States is not conducive to actually learning how to use a language. I would suggest allowing students to knock out two or even all three years of language schooling by instead spending a year in studies abroad in a country where English is not an official language. Such a policy would also mitigate the issue of limited language options in a certain community.
Logged
Yelnoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2604 on: May 19, 2012, 06:08:53 PM »

University of Florida requires three, I believe, while my school district mandates three to graduate, which is my logic for setting it to three. I hadn't considered precisely how; I was going to leave it up to the school districts. As to Spanish/other languages, I didn't want to put in a mandate of what language the school offers; if they can't find a Spanish-speaking person for some reason, I don't want to punish them because they could only find French, Malay, and Swahili teachers.
So long as we don't put any teeth in this bill, the districts won't get in trouble for not hiring Spanish teachers if none are available.  It just forces them to hire Spanish teachers if some are available.  Hagrid does point out a problem with this though; school districts should not hire awful Spanish teachers simply because there are no alternatives.  Hmm...any ideas to prevent that?

     Yelnoc is right, language schooling in the United States is not conducive to actually learning how to use a language. I would suggest allowing students to knock out two or even all three years of language schooling by instead spending a year in studies abroad in a country where English is not an official language. Such a policy would also mitigate the issue of limited language options in a certain community.
This is a great idea.  Perhaps when they come back for graduation they can be tested on whether to receive two or three years of credit?
Logged
Donerail
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,345
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2605 on: May 19, 2012, 09:38:13 PM »

     Yelnoc is right, language schooling in the United States is not conducive to actually learning how to use a language. I would suggest allowing students to knock out two or even all three years of language schooling by instead spending a year in studies abroad in a country where English is not an official language. Such a policy would also mitigate the issue of limited language options in a certain community.

This is actually a really great idea (so long as we can check they actually, ya know, learned it); one of the kids at my school went to China for a year cause her dad's a professor, and has basically been bored through the rest of Chinese class. It should be added.
Logged
HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,717
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2606 on: May 19, 2012, 10:25:12 PM »

Love PiT's idea.

Another point: The thing about trying to tailor mandatory high school curriculums to college prereqs is that every college is going to want something different. When does it become the student's responsibility to know what he should take in order to be considered at his university of choice? Should we force three years of language classes down everyone's throat just for the few kids who want to go to a certain university? I think two years is fair.

Re: Poor quality Spanish teachers... If the language classes aren't mandatory in middle school, it should be less of a problem than it currently is in Ontario.
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Atlas Politician
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,111
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2607 on: May 21, 2012, 02:22:12 AM »

     Testing them on whether they learned the language is quite important, & would also allow us to eliminate the non-English-speaking country stipulation. I did not think of it at the time, but that stipulation would disqualify certain languages that are only spoken in countries where English is also widely spoken, such as Welsh or Maori.
Logged
Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,956


Political Matrix
E: -1.94, S: -3.13

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2608 on: May 22, 2012, 05:48:54 PM »

I promise I'll contribute more once this education discussion is finished. I just have nothing of substance to contribute Tongue
Logged
Donerail
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,345
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2609 on: May 22, 2012, 05:54:26 PM »

I promise I'll contribute more once this education discussion is finished. I just have nothing of substance to contribute Tongue

We've got something on renaming the months and my bill prohibiting oil rigs within roughly 10 miles of the coast.
Logged
Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,956


Political Matrix
E: -1.94, S: -3.13

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2610 on: May 22, 2012, 06:15:40 PM »

The f**k? Renaming the months?
Logged
HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,717
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2611 on: May 22, 2012, 06:29:04 PM »

I might hammer out some revisions to the education bill and see what y'all think. Get this thing moving.

Not tonight though. I feel like garbage.
Logged
Donerail
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,345
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2612 on: May 22, 2012, 06:47:14 PM »


One month=1 Southern Year. 1 year has 4 months. The months shall be called Cotton, Magnolia, Yellowhammer, and Sugar.
Logged
HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,717
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2613 on: May 26, 2012, 10:27:46 PM »

Just want to apologize for not getting down to work on this education bill. Between coming down with a wicked cold and planning a spontaneous trip to Portugal, time hasn't been on my side.

Hopefully I'll get something posted by Monday. Hope all's well.
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Atlas Politician
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,111
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2614 on: May 27, 2012, 08:05:06 PM »

Just want to apologize for not getting down to work on this education bill. Between coming down with a wicked cold and planning a spontaneous trip to Portugal, time hasn't been on my side.

Hopefully I'll get something posted by Monday. Hope all's well.

     Glad to hear something's coming up. I was just thinking that it is time to collate this discussion into a final bill.
Logged
Donerail
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,345
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2615 on: May 27, 2012, 09:10:09 PM »

I think there's a post of amendments a couple pages back.
Logged
Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,956


Political Matrix
E: -1.94, S: -3.13

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2616 on: May 28, 2012, 01:41:08 PM »


One month=1 Southern Year. 1 year has 4 months. The months shall be called Cotton, Magnolia, Yellowhammer, and Sugar.

We can't do that. You see, I am still slightly angry about the last regime unwinding the changes I made to the south when I was in office - most notably when they renamed the south aka the dirty south to the imperial dominion. It changed us from a band of renegades just trying to change Atlasia into a pseudo world of warcraft type group that probably sits in the basement of our parents houses, picking at our noses while playing online games like world of warcraft.
Logged
Donerail
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,345
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2617 on: May 28, 2012, 03:09:42 PM »


One month=1 Southern Year. 1 year has 4 months. The months shall be called Cotton, Magnolia, Yellowhammer, and Sugar.

We can't do that. You see, I am still slightly angry about the last regime unwinding the changes I made to the south when I was in office - most notably when they renamed the south aka the dirty south to the imperial dominion. It changed us from a band of renegades just trying to change Atlasia into a pseudo world of warcraft type group that probably sits in the basement of our parents houses, picking at our noses while playing online games like world of warcraft.

Kal's idea, not mine.
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Atlas Politician
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,111
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2618 on: May 30, 2012, 01:02:32 AM »

     Dirty South is still a perfectly valid option by my reading. The Restore the Revolution Act was never repealed & the amendment creating the current IDS name did not claim any bearing on the old Dirty South name.
Logged
Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,956


Political Matrix
E: -1.94, S: -3.13

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2619 on: May 30, 2012, 07:47:30 PM »

     Dirty South is still a perfectly valid option by my reading. The Restore the Revolution Act was never repealed & the amendment creating the current IDS name did not claim any bearing on the old Dirty South name.

That makes me feel a bit better. That said, we still refer to ourselves as the IDS, which is okay if that's what The People want, but I am still holding true to my past. I will call us the Dirty South again if it isn't breaking any laws. Cheesy

Oh, and I still oppose changing the names of the months Wink
Logged
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2620 on: May 31, 2012, 05:40:59 AM »

Oh, and I still oppose changing the names of the months Wink

If you want to reject it, that's fine, since I just wanted to propose something.
Logged
Donerail
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,345
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2621 on: June 01, 2012, 08:11:56 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

I believe this is the text as of this point?
Logged
Yelnoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2622 on: June 04, 2012, 12:55:06 PM »

Back.  And sjoyce, I guess so, I'll look through it when I'm not multi-tasking...
Logged
Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,956


Political Matrix
E: -1.94, S: -3.13

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2623 on: June 04, 2012, 05:45:44 PM »

Does the cost of this bill matter at the state level? Like, all of these things are great, but are they practical?
Logged
Yelnoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2624 on: June 04, 2012, 06:40:58 PM »

Does the cost of this bill matter at the state level? Like, all of these things are great, but are they practical?
Last I checked we are running a decent surplus with near 0 tax rates, so we should be able to afford this, though a cost estimation from the moderator team might be a good idea.

sjoyce, didn't we change something about the student:computer ration so as to not tax the resources of rural school districts?  I know there are places in South Georgia where students cannot ford graphing calculators, and I imagine those schools are nowhere near able to meet this criterion.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 100 101 102 103 104 [105] 106 107 108 109 110 ... 170  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.074 seconds with 12 queries.