Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
September 15, 2014, 09:59:41 pm
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  Atlas Fantasy Elections
| |-+  Atlas Fantasy Government
| | |-+  Regional Governments (Moderator: Gustaf)
| | | |-+  The Imperial Dominion of the South's Legislature
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 124 125 126 127 128 [129] 130 131 132 133 134 ... 170 Print
Author Topic: The Imperial Dominion of the South's Legislature  (Read 121946 times)
SJoyce
sjoycefla
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8899
United States


View Profile
« Reply #3200 on: October 08, 2012, 08:13:03 pm »
Ignore

You should then be advocating that the Legislature refuse the funds by adopting the formal position of having no established location, rather than adopting a spiteful, wasteful solution to the problem you perceive.

I would be, but would that be considered by the likes of you leftists? No.

I didn't realize that the Legislature was dominated by leftists.

This is petty and I am through wasting my energy debating you. I've outlined clear reasons why my selected location is superior to yours - in addition to outlining why your location is inferior, so I have nothing else to say unless the debate shifts. Rather than attempting to take a principled stand against government overreach and ineffective spending by advocating no selection, you chose instead to take a spiteful, wasteful route. You simply want to teach the federal government a lesson, and in the process, waste taxpayer dollars so you can do so.

I've outlined my idea and unless the Legislator from Florida wishes to take an alternate route in his proposal, I feel the debate on this has been thorough enough.

Wouldn't you like it to be...

You accuse my route of being wasteful? You accuse me of wanting to waste taxpayer dollars? I would turn your attention to the portion of the bill itself that you so recently cited:

Quote
National University and General Education Reform bill
3.   Each regional government shall submit a location of economic distress or decline that would benefit from the presence of a strong university campus to the Secretary of Internal Affairs, who can approve or deny the location.
4.  If the Secretary of Internal Affairs denies the location, the region can either nominate a new location or petition the Senate to overrule the Secretary, which can be done by a majority vote of the Senate.


The Secretary of Internal Affairs or the Senate would have to deliberately approve such a "waste [of] taxpayer dollars". Can't pin the blame for it on me, since ultimately it has to go through them.

Yes, I do want to teach the federal government a lesson; whether it be through no selection, or through selection of one they shall not approve, either is acceptable.

If it would so please the Legislator from Georgia, I would be happy to withdraw my selection in favor of no selection.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 08:20:24 pm by IDS Legislator SJoyceFla »Logged

Lowly Griff
Adam Griffin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5551
Greece


View Profile
« Reply #3201 on: October 08, 2012, 08:37:41 pm »
Ignore

You accuse my route of being wasteful? You accuse me of wanting to waste taxpayer dollars? I would turn your attention to the portion of the bill itself that you so recently cited:

Quote
National University and General Education Reform bill
3.   Each regional government shall submit a location of economic distress or decline that would benefit from the presence of a strong university campus to the Secretary of Internal Affairs, who can approve or deny the location.
4.  If the Secretary of Internal Affairs denies the location, the region can either nominate a new location or petition the Senate to overrule the Secretary, which can be done by a majority vote of the Senate.

The Secretary of Internal Affairs or the Senate would have to deliberately approve such a "waste [of] taxpayer dollars". Can't pin the blame for it on me, since ultimately it has to go through them.

I did accuse you of being wasteful and I stand by it. Either the proposal would be accepted - in which case the money would be wasted, or the proposal would be rejected and either kicked back to the Legislature for a second round or appealed in the Senate, which would be wasteful in the concept of time.

Yes, I do want to teach the federal government a lesson; whether it be through no selection, or through selection of one they shall not approve, either is acceptable.

If it would so please the Legislator from Georgia, I would be happy to withdraw my selection in favor of no selection.

I'm glad you've seen the error of your ways.
Logged

I don't have to meet a certain standard in order for God to allow me into heaven.

Cisgender is a nonsense word invented by the Jewish Left-Wing Press to help spread neoliberal ideals and recruit young children into homosexualism.
SJoyce
sjoycefla
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8899
United States


View Profile
« Reply #3202 on: October 08, 2012, 08:53:21 pm »
Ignore

You accuse my route of being wasteful? You accuse me of wanting to waste taxpayer dollars? I would turn your attention to the portion of the bill itself that you so recently cited:

Quote
National University and General Education Reform bill
3.   Each regional government shall submit a location of economic distress or decline that would benefit from the presence of a strong university campus to the Secretary of Internal Affairs, who can approve or deny the location.
4.  If the Secretary of Internal Affairs denies the location, the region can either nominate a new location or petition the Senate to overrule the Secretary, which can be done by a majority vote of the Senate.

The Secretary of Internal Affairs or the Senate would have to deliberately approve such a "waste [of] taxpayer dollars". Can't pin the blame for it on me, since ultimately it has to go through them.

I did accuse you of being wasteful and I stand by it. Either the proposal would be accepted - in which case the money would be wasted, or the proposal would be rejected and either kicked back to the Legislature for a second round or appealed in the Senate, which would be wasteful in the concept of time.

Either the proposal would be accepted - in which case the SoIA would be voluntarily spending money on what they can clearly see is a venture chosen only to make a point, or it would be rejected - in which case no money is lost and the matter is dropped.
Logged

Lowly Griff
Adam Griffin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5551
Greece


View Profile
« Reply #3203 on: October 08, 2012, 09:04:58 pm »
Ignore

Either the proposal would be accepted - in which case the SoIA would be voluntarily spending money on what they can clearly see is a venture chosen only to make a point, or it would be rejected - in which case no money is lost and the matter is dropped.

Kind of a moot point now, seeing as how you've changed positions.

I will yield so that the Chair of the smallest major political party may make his case for not selecting a location for the national university.
Logged

I don't have to meet a certain standard in order for God to allow me into heaven.

Cisgender is a nonsense word invented by the Jewish Left-Wing Press to help spread neoliberal ideals and recruit young children into homosexualism.
SJoyce
sjoycefla
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8899
United States


View Profile
« Reply #3204 on: October 09, 2012, 02:22:30 pm »
Ignore

I will yield so that the Chair of the smallest major political party may make his case for not selecting a location for the national university.

The Chair of the most important political party in this region thanks you for yielding.

This is a federal takeover of our education system. The Senate has decided, in their infinite wisdom, to follow the orders of the President and establish this sort of national university system. Why? I have no idea. This bill establishes a system of public universities run solely by the federal government, intruding into an area previously controlled and coordinated solely by the region, in order to create various different public systems and turn our universities into a jumbled mess. We need to send a strong message to the federal government, that this is not their place and not their business. Universities are our job to handle, not yours, and we don't need your bureaucracy infecting our region. Thanks, but no thanks. Go do your own job and let us worry about ours. Mind your own goddamn business.

Additionally, accepting this money would be legitimizing the tax that the money comes from. The tax contained in this bill would create what amounts to "illegal beliefs", and punish colleges that reject federal money for philosophical reasons. These taxes would cause those universities that refuse to "change their philosophy then", as the President suggested, and instead refuse to modify their strongly-held beliefs to comply with the demands of the federal government, to be driven out and into bankruptcy. Driving people and institutions into financial ruin just because of what they sincerely believe isn't right, and it isn't Atlasian. It is our moral responsibility to reject money that comes from such an evil source, just as you would (hopefully) reject donations from fringe hate groups.

In the interests of keeping to the regions what belongs to the regions, and rejecting federal attempts to criminalize beliefs, we must reject this university and this federal meddling in our region and in our thoughts.
Logged

Armand Duval
Zanas46
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1903
France


View Profile
« Reply #3205 on: October 09, 2012, 05:46:54 pm »
Ignore

Either I'm deeply mistaken, or education is an Atlasian-wide stake, and we have no interest in wanting to compete between regions to see which has the best university and can produce the best students. That is why, if I can think this correctly, there has been created a federal university system, in order to ensure equality amongst regions, and that no inner competition is led, at a time when global competition is already threatening our jobs.

We, Atlasia, are a nation. Each region has powers, indeed, and particularities, but that's the future of our jobs, our kids, our nation that's at stake here ! We won't have an IDS left to defend if Atlasia falls apart, or at least we won't stand a chance in the grand scheme of things. Education may be the most crucial issue there is in order to get out the threats of today's economic situation upwards and not down the drain. Having a federal university doesn't however in my opinion threatens any of the powers the region has as of now, but I think we should be more than happy to welcome there students from all over Atlasia. We need to keep on building an Atlasian feeling, an Atlasian sense of belonging, and what could do that better than having students study all over the country during their years ?

I will renew my proposal of New Orleans as a compromise, as no one can say it's not a location in economic distress, no one can say it's not centrally located in our region, and no one can say it would not make a great place for a university with all the cultures that have been mixed there to make what it is.

And by the way, if you're afraid of federal meddling in your thoughts, lock them up better... Wink
Logged

"F**k you Lion, I'm the King !" Mr Bear

IN NATE WE TRUST

Long Live Bretzels !


That's not how the left works.  We make swords out of our enemy's iron thrones.

My French blog
SJoyce
sjoycefla
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8899
United States


View Profile
« Reply #3206 on: October 09, 2012, 06:18:22 pm »
Ignore

Either I'm deeply mistaken, or education is an Atlasian-wide stake, and we have no interest in wanting to compete between regions to see which has the best university and can produce the best students. That is why, if I can think this correctly, there has been created a federal university system, in order to ensure equality amongst regions, and that no inner competition is led, at a time when global competition is already threatening our jobs.

Education is an Atlasian-wide issue, and one that is typically handled by the regional government since the regions are the ones who know best the particular issues that face them and can thus deliver education in a more effective and affordable manner. Competition, however, is necessary between universities: high-quality universities attract many students, and other universities, wanting to attract students as well, change and adapt and improve so that they become high-quality. We need that competition if we want to keep our educational system innovating and constantly improving.

We, Atlasia, are a nation. Each region has powers, indeed, and particularities, but that's the future of our jobs, our kids, our nation that's at stake here ! We won't have an IDS left to defend if Atlasia falls apart, or at least we won't stand a chance in the grand scheme of things. Education may be the most crucial issue there is in order to get out the threats of today's economic situation upwards and not down the drain. Having a federal university doesn't however in my opinion threatens any of the powers the region has as of now, but I think we should be more than happy to welcome there students from all over Atlasia. We need to keep on building an Atlasian feeling, an Atlasian sense of belonging, and what could do that better than having students study all over the country during their years ?

It is the future of our jobs, our kids, and our nation, which is why we need to improve our educational system. We just passed legislation targeting K-12 education in this body, and I would certainly be interested in doing the same for higher education. Nobody is denying that education is extremely important. This region is happy to accept and readily does accept out-of-region students in large numbers to our high-quality regional universities (UNC, Texas, Georgia Tech, New College, UF, UGA, and others); this federal university system would not mean that out-of-region kids would be suddenly allowed to go here, they are already allowed to do that. All it does is create a new federal university system and spend billions of dollars on construction costs instead of on improving our current regional universities.

I will renew my proposal of New Orleans as a compromise, as no one can say it's not a location in economic distress, no one can say it's not centrally located in our region, and no one can say it would not make a great place for a university with all the cultures that have been mixed there to make what it is.

It is. That's why there's already two high-caliber universities located there (Tulane and Loyola).
Logged

Duke
AHDuke99
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 19802


View Profile
« Reply #3207 on: October 09, 2012, 10:24:37 pm »
Ignore

Friends, we need this university in a relevant place. We cannot afford to have it off in Puerto Rico surrounded by the likes of islanders who only wish to take shots of tequila, sell drugs and sit on the beach all day.

While I am not real keen on the new 'national university system' imposed on us by the president, I think if we are getting these funds, we may as well make use of them and build a worthwhile university, not in the party filled streets of San Juan, but in a decent city on the mainland on the Dirty South. I don't know exactly where that should be - maybe in South Carolina or Georgia, but not in San Juan. I don't want to send my lovely daughter off to sit in her bikini and do lines of coke off some muscle bound man on the beach. That's for sure!
Logged
IDS Attorney General PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22476
United States


View Profile
« Reply #3208 on: October 10, 2012, 01:09:25 am »
Ignore

     I'll point out that if we reject this, our taxpayer dollars would just go to fund a federal university in another region. We at least have the opportunity to bring taxpayer dollars back to our own region rather than send them off to somewhere else.
Logged

Lowly Griff
Adam Griffin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5551
Greece


View Profile
« Reply #3209 on: October 10, 2012, 01:50:55 am »
Ignore

    I'll point out that if we reject this, our taxpayer dollars would just go to fund a federal university in another region. We at least have the opportunity to bring taxpayer dollars back to our own region rather than send them off to somewhere else.

This seems to be the most reasonable route. I think there seems to be more of a consensus that since the most regulatin' portions of the law will be implemented regardless of our decision, there simply is not any pragmatic gain in opposing this. The Dibble fiasco was one thing; this is quite another. I would also remind those who oppose this measure that our regional Senator and perhaps the most respected member of the Imperial Bloc supported its passage.

Mr. Speaker, what are your thoughts?

I would also like to reiterate that (in the event someone may have missed the prior discussion) in terms of specific locations, I had suggested Columbus, MS for the location. Zanas46 also suggested New Orleans, LA.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 02:10:17 am by IDS Legislator Griffin »Logged

I don't have to meet a certain standard in order for God to allow me into heaven.

Cisgender is a nonsense word invented by the Jewish Left-Wing Press to help spread neoliberal ideals and recruit young children into homosexualism.
Armand Duval
Zanas46
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1903
France


View Profile
« Reply #3210 on: October 10, 2012, 07:58:06 am »
Ignore

Another argument that could be made : building and maintaining a $1-bn university will mean giving plenty of our businesses in the construction sector money to build it ! That can create jobs as construction workers for the duration of the building, and then jobs in maintenance, restauration, cleaning, and of course education just to keep it working. We're talking big here. We need those jobs, and Washington DC isn't gonna send their people to fill them !

I would advocate for our region to be able to choose which businesses will get to build the university though, in order to ensure that our locales will benefit from every penny of this. Could our Emperor see if this is workable with the federal government, not as an amendment to the bill of course, but more as a working condition ?
Logged

"F**k you Lion, I'm the King !" Mr Bear

IN NATE WE TRUST

Long Live Bretzels !


That's not how the left works.  We make swords out of our enemy's iron thrones.

My French blog
Jbrase
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5899
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.32, S: -5.74


View Profile
« Reply #3211 on: October 10, 2012, 08:13:34 am »
Ignore

I think somewhere in Appalachia would be the appropriate location.
Logged

Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 29560
United States


View Profile
« Reply #3212 on: October 10, 2012, 01:03:36 pm »
Ignore

Seems like everytime I turn around there is a something about this bill that pops up and thus brings it to the fore. Tongue

I wasn't too keen on the idea of creating a national university system either and my preference would be for them to be under the control of the Region. However, we clearly needed the institutions and thus I consented to support it on that basis. They can easily be devolved to regional administration down the road when the opportunity presents itself.

I don't know where the best location would be, though I do think it wise that the discussion is being based around boosting an economically distraught city. That is a long list of options though. I would also recommend, placing it an area that will be well serviced by infrastructure and thus comparring it to the plans that I have seen to see how close it is to the lines, may be a wise move indeed. Lastly, bringining a large amount of people into a poor town is going to create burdens previously not experienced on local infrastructure, especially crime prevention and healthcare providers. I would suggest keeping the strength of such in mind nad maybe possibly providing funding to the city to boost those services in anticipation of the higher traffic and residency in the area to be choosen.

There was a comment here by Xanas about "not needing regions competing with one another". I couldn't disagree more. Education isn't a fire and forget weapon, and both the students and environments have changed. That means the education standards, teachers, technology, curriculums and tests all have to change and adapt to meet the needs. These needs will vary by region and the more diverse experimentation, you will find successes quicker. Regions will then look at the successes and failures to determine what to do and what not to do. This process would cause differentials amongst the regiosn to vanish not only in policy, but in the results (which is what matters), and likely far quicker then experimenting with one idea at a time at the Federal level.

If there is a concern about the Feds usurping Regional authority on education, I would recommend premption. The best approach would be a to pursue an comprehensive strategy to improve the Educational system of this region. That will reduce the justification for "The fixers" in the Senate (you know who they are) to come in and "help you". Wink
Logged

He's BACK!!! His Time Has Come Once Again! Now We're All Gonna Die! No One is Safe From His Wrath!



SJoyce
sjoycefla
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8899
United States


View Profile
« Reply #3213 on: October 10, 2012, 03:14:45 pm »
Ignore

If the consensus is that we should accept these funds, then I shall nominate Ocala, Florida, where I can keep an eye on em.

Failing that, there's also:

Dahlonega, Georgia
College Station, Texas
Charleston, South Carolina
Milledgeville, Georgia
Marion, Alabama
Galveston, Texas

Where I would feel comfortable with having such a large federal presence.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 03:22:02 pm by IDS Legislator SJoyceFla »Logged

Jbrase
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5899
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.32, S: -5.74


View Profile
« Reply #3214 on: October 11, 2012, 04:38:51 pm »
Ignore

While we are discussing this, we should also keep the que from getting too clogged up:

Quote
Protect Our Dogs And Cats Act of 2012

1. Wire flooring is to be banned from use in commercial dog and cat breeding facilities by October 2012.
2. The number of breeding females in a commercial dog/cat breeding facility is not to exceed 50 individuals.
3. The cage height a dog or cat is kept in at a commercial dog/cat breeding facility must be the height of the animal standing erect multiplied by 1.5.
4. Female animals at a dog/cat breeding facility may only be bred twice in an 18-month period, once per year, and six times per lifetime.
5. After a female animal has a litter, the offspring may only be weaned and distributed after 10 weeks after birth; the time from birth to ten weeks must be spent with their mother.
6. When being shipped from the breeding facility, the dog/cat being shipped must be in a container that meets specifications laid out previously in this bill; the container must either be air-conditioned or transported in a vehicle that is; the vehicle transporting them may not be turned off with the animal(s) inside it for a period of greater than 30 minutes.
7. Animal feces must be removed from animal containers once every twenty-four hours or more frequently.
8. Animals at dog/cat breeding facilities must receive treats, toys, exercise, and basic grooming in an amount determined by a regional panel.
9. Animals at dog/cat breeding facilities are entitled to adequate food and water, veterinary care, and socialization.
10. Animals at dog/cat breeding facilities must be reasonably protected from the elements.
11. Animals at dog/cat breeding facilities must coordinate with rescue groups to save unwanted animals.
12. Animal containers at such facilities may not be stacked in multiple rows.
13. Enclosures for dogs/cats may not be under [dimensions to add] per animal, and the enclosures must be kept to a basic level of hygiene.
14. Animals must be allowed out of their enclosures for a period of 30 minutes or more at least once a week.
15. Dog/cat breeding facilities must be licensed and inspected by an appropriate regional body and must be renewed annually.
16. There must be a 3-day waiting period before a person can buy a dog/cat from a pet store.
Logged

SJoyce
sjoycefla
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8899
United States


View Profile
« Reply #3215 on: October 11, 2012, 04:43:03 pm »
Ignore

So I'm sponsoring this; it's common-sense legislation to create some fundamentally humane conditions at breeding facilities.

I amend October 2012 to January 2013.
Logged

Lowly Griff
Adam Griffin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5551
Greece


View Profile
« Reply #3216 on: October 11, 2012, 06:07:22 pm »
Ignore

I'm cool with this. I do have a question about 16: is there a background check or something that is cause for this provision?
Logged

I don't have to meet a certain standard in order for God to allow me into heaven.

Cisgender is a nonsense word invented by the Jewish Left-Wing Press to help spread neoliberal ideals and recruit young children into homosexualism.
SJoyce
sjoycefla
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8899
United States


View Profile
« Reply #3217 on: October 11, 2012, 07:51:56 pm »
Ignore

I'm cool with this. I do have a question about 16: is there a background check or something that is cause for this provision?

Not a background check, but it is kinda like waiting periods for guns; you'd go into the pet store/shelter and pick out one you want or whatever, but you can only pick it up 3 days after that. The idea is that (like with guns) people need to wait to buy an animal and can't just impulse-buy it and get bored after a week and abandon it.
Logged

IDS Attorney General PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22476
United States


View Profile
« Reply #3218 on: October 11, 2012, 09:47:49 pm »
Ignore

     As a specific suggestion, I think the animals should be given enough space in their cages to turn in place, though section 13 can be worked to take care of that. I also think the word facility should be specifically defined for the purposes of this bill.

     As a side note, I find section 11 to be fairly humorous. I guess Spot's going to be doing reconnaissance of the neighborhood to find cats to be targetted for rescue. Grin
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 09:49:58 pm by Emperor PiT »Logged

SJoyce
sjoycefla
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8899
United States


View Profile
« Reply #3219 on: October 11, 2012, 09:54:53 pm »
Ignore

     As a specific suggestion, I think the animals should be given enough space in their cages to turn in place, though section 13 can be worked to take care of that. I also think the word facility should be specifically defined for the purposes of this bill.

     As a side note, I find section 11 to be fairly humorous. I guess Spot's going to be doing reconnaissance of the neighborhood to find cats to be targetted for rescue. Grin

I'll work up a definition for facility; I was going to get specific dimensions based on the size of the animal, which would be sufficient to turn around in. I should probably fix 7.
Logged

Armand Duval
Zanas46
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1903
France


View Profile
« Reply #3220 on: October 14, 2012, 07:27:23 pm »
Ignore

I'm in favor of this bill obviously. I think we could maybe add a note on article 16, explaining why this 3-day delay. There could even be a typical form or flyer that should be given to any pet acquirer and explaining why it's not like buying a stuffed animal. The model of the flyer will be our administration's to establish, but the obligation to hand it out must be in the law.
Logged

"F**k you Lion, I'm the King !" Mr Bear

IN NATE WE TRUST

Long Live Bretzels !


That's not how the left works.  We make swords out of our enemy's iron thrones.

My French blog
Duke
AHDuke99
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 19802


View Profile
« Reply #3221 on: October 14, 2012, 07:57:50 pm »
Ignore

Charleston has College of Charleston already, but I think it would be a good location for the university.
Logged
IDS Attorney General PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22476
United States


View Profile
« Reply #3222 on: October 14, 2012, 10:27:14 pm »
Ignore

     Yeah, we still need to decide on a university location, don't we?
Logged

Lowly Griff
Adam Griffin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5551
Greece


View Profile
« Reply #3223 on: October 15, 2012, 04:09:52 am »
Ignore

Charleston has College of Charleston already, but I think it would be a good location for the university.

     Yeah, we still need to decide on a university location, don't we?

I'd like to emphasize that I am on board with any selected location, assuming it is in a place that best serves the interests of students. Charleston is at least somewhat centered on the north-south axis of the region and is easily accessible via major transportation routes.
Logged

I don't have to meet a certain standard in order for God to allow me into heaven.

Cisgender is a nonsense word invented by the Jewish Left-Wing Press to help spread neoliberal ideals and recruit young children into homosexualism.
IDS Attorney General PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22476
United States


View Profile
« Reply #3224 on: October 15, 2012, 06:28:02 pm »
Ignore

     Charleston is also a hugely significant location in the region's history, being the home of former Governor Duke's plantation.
Logged

Pages: 1 ... 124 125 126 127 128 [129] 130 131 132 133 134 ... 170 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines