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Author Topic: The Biggest Damned-Fool Mistake I Ever Made: by Dallasfan65 and hantheguitarman  (Read 19736 times)
cpeeks
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« Reply #75 on: April 12, 2010, 08:07:23 am »
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And I really didn't know all of you were so young, or I would have been a lot easier on you, so I am sorry for being so harsh on such young kids, you are all very smart kids on history and politics,  and they are very excellent writers.I hope dallasfan and hantheguitarman will accept my apology.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 03:14:42 pm by cpeeks »Logged
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« Reply #76 on: April 12, 2010, 08:14:31 am »
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And I really didn't know all of you were so young, or I would have been a lot easier on you, so I am sorry for being so harsh on such young kids, you are all very smart kids on history and politics,  and are very excellent writers.I hope will accept my sincere apology.

Yeah, it must feel bad to know that you know much less than people half your alledged age. Now go away.
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« Reply #77 on: April 12, 2010, 10:33:51 am »
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Official statement:

cpeeks is not my sock.

Sincerely,
Kalwejt
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« Reply #78 on: April 12, 2010, 01:53:25 pm »
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Thanks to all of you who stuck up for me and Dallasfan! We really appreciate it! Cheesy

I am 10 and the Hoover one was popular

You are 10? You know a lot about history and current events for a 10-year-old. Smiley
I'm 10.




You are 10, Hawkeye?HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh??
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« Reply #79 on: April 12, 2010, 03:17:23 pm »
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.
Thanks to all of you who stuck up for me and Dallasfan! We really appreciate it! Cheesy

I am 10 and the Hoover one was popular

You are 10? You know a lot about history and current events for a 10-year-old. Smiley
I'm 10.




You are 10, Hawkeye?HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh??
yup.
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« Reply #80 on: April 12, 2010, 06:26:02 pm »
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I feel the need to say a few things.  First of all dallasfan and hantheguitarman have created something really good.  I have been impressed, as I have by almost every timeline on here.  While I think it is okay to give suggestions or even the occasional critique (I find them useful in my writing) some of things written here about these two writers went a little too far.

I will admit that I am older than most of you, but quite frankly, that does not matter.  Heaping scorn on someone else's work doesn't become bad just because you find out they are younger than you.   

I, for one, really enjoy this timeline and want it to continue.  
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 07:19:18 pm by Junkie »Logged
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« Reply #81 on: April 13, 2010, 09:38:02 am »
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Thanks for the compliments Junkie! Cheesy They're really appreciated! Your TL is very impressive also, and your TL is really good!

Anyway, George Wallace's first term shall be posted relatively soon, so keep your eyes on the lookout, it's coming! Smiley
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« Reply #82 on: April 13, 2010, 04:39:27 pm »
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The First Term of George Wallace



The Cabinet of George Wallace
President: George Wallace
Vice President: John Connally
State: Ronald Reagan
Treasury: Henry Fowler
Defense: Curtis LeMay
Postmaster General: W. Marvin Watson
Interior: Orval Faubus
Agriculture: Roman Hruska
Commerce: John Sparkman
Labor: Olin D. Johnston
Hew: William Cohen
HUD: James E. Carter
Transportation: James F. Blake
Attorney General: Bourke B. Hickenlooper

President George Wallace couldn't believe it. While many initially thought of him as an unelectable bigot, George Wallace not only won the election, but won with a landslide, bringing the populist wing of the Democratic Party back into control of not only the Democratic Party, but the White House. With a mandate, Wallace set out to accomplish his first term agenda, which would entail very major changes in domestic and foreign policy.

The Wallace Administration's Cold War policy can be summed up in four words from Secretary of State Ronald Reagan: "We win. They lose." While Reagan was initially hesitant to resign as California Governor, President Wallace promised to allow Reagan to do whatever it took to, in Reagan's words "send the Soviet Union into the ash heap of history." Secretary Reagan recommended an increase in defense spending, and a military buildup, drawing the Soviets into an arms race. Poor crop yields from the USSR made maintaining the Soviet economy and keeping up with the United States difficult for the Soviets, and the USSR economy began to seriously falter. Reagan also recommended helping anticommunist insurgencies, even if the anticommunist rebels weren't exactly fond of human rights, but one thing was certain: the Wallace Administration viewed Communism as evil, and would take all steps necessary to eradicate Communism from the face of the Earth. Wallace would refuse to recognize China as a nation, and made no attempts to open up relations with Zhou Enlai and Mao Zedong. One of the greatest assets of having Reagan as Secretary of State was that Secretary Reagan was a great orator, and a great communicator. Whenever the Wallace Administration had a public relations problem with foreign policy (Reagan had major disagreements with the domestic policies of Wallace and refused to defend any of Wallace's domestic policies), he would send Reagan out to reason with the public, and to campaign for the Wallace Doctrine. Reagan would paint the Soviet Union as "an Evil Empire," and throughout the Wallace Presidency, Reagan would gear the American people toward virulent anticommunism.

In accordance with Wallace's Cold War policy, President Wallace greatly escalated the Vietnam War. Wallace would tell William Westmoreland, who commanded U.S. military operations in Vietnam, "look, you can do anything you want to do as long as you do one thing. Win this goddamn war. And don't you dare let politics interfere with your ability to win." While his cabinet advisors told Wallace that the war was "unwinnable" and that escalating the war would be politically costly, Wallace would have none of it. Working with military advisors, Wallace would develop a strategy. The boxing gloves were coming off, and the brass knuckles were coming on. First, Wallace increased the amount of troops going into Vietnam, and more and more American citizens received draft cards. Second, the United States decided to go the more orthodox route of an invasion and an attack on North Vietnam. American and South Vietnamese troops advanced into North Vietnam, with the intention of capturing Hanoi, which would the war and the communist regime. Additionally, Wallace increased bombing of North Vietnam, making heavy use of laser guided bombs to ensure accuracy. The bomb campaign would pummel the North Vietnamese. Even Ho Chi Minh, President of North Vietnam, died in a bomb strike shortly after Wallace took office, which emboldened the war movement on the homefront. Also, the Wallace administration was not afraid to bomb the Russian and Chinese armaments that were helping the North Vietnamese out, and gleefully allowed U.S. troops to do so. U.S. troops heavily bombed Vietnamese forests and the Ho Chi Minh trail so that the Viet Cong would not get supplies and military aid from their allies. Finally, Wallace agreed to a secret bombing of Cambodia and Laos. While the United States and the South Vietnamese suffered many casualties, the North Vietnamese did too, and it was clear that Wallace was winning the Vietnam War. Tensions between Russia and the U.S. had not been so heated since the end of World War 2, but it was clear Wallace had established a decivise edge in the Cold War. Overall, the fact that the US was winning the Vietnam War increased Wallace's popularity greatly. Nevertheless, Wallace made himself and the Democratic Party an enemy of the anti-war left. Anti-war protests increased as the war went on.



On November 3 1969, Wallace would say in an Address to the Nation on the War in Vietnam (written by Pat Buchanan): "And so tonight, to you, the great silent majority of my fellow American: I ask for your support...Let us be united for peace. Let us also be united against defeat. Because let us understand: North Vietnam cannot defeat or humiliate the United States. Only Americans can do that. As President I hold the responsibility for choosing the best path to that goal and then leading the Nation along it. I pledge to you tonight that I shall meet this responsibility with all of the strength and wisdom I can command in accordance with your hopes, mindful of your concerns, sustained by your prayers. Thank you and goodnight." Overall, the speech was successful, and many Americans supported the Vietnam War.

While George Wallace had downplayed his segregationist rhetoric in 1968, Wallace still held many racist beliefs, and many Southerners were expecting him to end desegregation. Indeed, Wallace appointed many segregationist appointees to the Federal Courts (like Strom Thurmond), and had appointed James Blake, the bus driver who had busted Rosa Parks for refusing to give up her seat, as Secretary of Transportation. George Wallace would indeed refuse to enforce major civil rights legislation that had already been passed. He made no attempts to stop desegregation where it existed, and made no attempts to integrate public schools. He opposed extension of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Additionally, Wallace would sign an executive order that declared that desegregation busing was illegal. While the Supreme Court of the United States had made segregation illegal before Wallace had even took office, segregation and racism would remain de facto laws in many states.

In the realm of economics, George Wallace would sign wage and price controls into law, so that inflation could be tamed. He increased welfare spending, and raised taxes on the rich to pay for the welfare. Also, he would increase funding for education, and would attempt to provide more healthcare coverage for more people. Also, Wallace expanded upon the New Deal, adding more funds to Social Security, the TVA, and other New Deal public works programs. Despite this shift in welfare policy, Wallace's first term domestic policy was not radical. However, if Wallace was elected to a second term, he had a huge plan to reform welfare for the poor, and to create his own version of the New Deal.

To satisfy his "law and order" image, President George Wallace praised the Ohio National Guard for their actions in the Kent State shootings, and publicly said:"The National Guard only made one mistake: they should have fired sooner and longer." Additionally, Wallace would crack down on protests on the White House. He would publicly decry hippies, and publicly stated: "them hippies need to get a job and get cleaned up. Nobody cares about them." George Wallace would be flanked by military guards everytime he attempted to travel, so that hippies would know not to mess with him. Wallace would even send the military to patrol urban riots and ensure law and order. It became clear that if anybody was getting the hippie vote in 1972, it surely was not going to be George Wallace.

With all of his achievements accomplished in his first term, President George Wallace was in a good position for his re-election bid in 1972 and was a popular president.

George Wallace Supreme Court Appointments:

Strom Thurmond (1969)
William H. Rehnquist: Chief Justice (1970)
John Stennis (1971)
McDonald Gallion (1971)
« Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 07:05:24 pm by hantheguitarman »Logged

Dallasfan65
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« Reply #83 on: April 13, 2010, 04:43:01 pm »
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The 1972 Presidential Election

Democratic Party Nomination
 
The Primaries

Despite being a popular incumbent amongst his party, an insurgent candidacy arose within the ranks of the Democratic Party: Senator George McGovern of South Dakota. Seen as the last vestige of hippies whom had not bolted the Democratic Party infavor of the Yippie Party, the South Dakota Senator won a handful of votes but no actual primaries.

The Convention
President Wallace was renominated on the first ballot at the Democratic Convention in Mobile, Alabama.


Republican Party Nomination

 
The Primaries

Blue - Romney
Red - Fannin
Green - Hatfield
 
With the ever increasing importance of the Presidential Primary system, a slieu of candidates had hit the campaign trail in 1971 and begun establishing a base of supporters. With the mild unpopularity of the Vietnam War at the time, many candidates stepped forth as the "Anti-War Candidate" in hopes of courting a voting bloc and direct avenue to the White House. Those whom stepped forth were Governor George W. Romney, representing the moderate wing of the party, campaigning on job creation and civil rights, former Vice President Paul Fannin, representing the conservative wing of the party, and Governor Mark Hatfield of Oregon, campaigning on more civil liberties, tax cuts, and an end to the Vietnam War.
 
The Convention
Despite having locked up most of the primaries and a majority of the statewide delegations, the Convention was unsure about Romney's electability as a candidate. However, the Governor gave an empassioned speech on the importance of primary systems as "the voice of the people" and compared their lack of significance to "deprivation of the right to vote" that blacks had undergone "since the days of Jim Crow." After pledging to end the Vietnam War at the convention, Governor Mark Hatfield reluctantly pledged his delegates to Romney, even though he privately commented "the man is a damn phony."

First Ballot

Romney: 689 Delegates
Fannin: 348 Delegates
Hatfield: 310 Delegates

Second Ballot
Romney: 1125 Delegates
Fannin: 222 Delegates

After locking up the nomination, Governor Romney choose Hatfield's fellow Oregonian, Senator Wayne Morse, for Vice President.
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Dallasfan65
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« Reply #84 on: April 13, 2010, 04:45:46 pm »
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The General Election
 
Despite his energetic exit from the Republican Convention in Detroit, his convention bump did not make him within closing distance of the President from Dixie. Initially having a 55-45 spread, the Detroit entrepreneur went downhill when questioned in the presidential debate about his position on the Vietnam War, in light of its recent success. "Well, when I was watching the development, I considered everything and decided to support it." Wallace questioned, "So you lied?" The Governor responded, "No, I changed my position... the hippies had me brainwashed." He said, hesitantly. From that point on, Wallace's lead became insurmountable, and he built his second victory once more on a coalition of blacks, southerners, and New Dealers.
 


George Wallace/John Connally: 490 EV, 61% PV
George Romney/Wayne Morse: 48 EV, 36% PV
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« Reply #85 on: April 14, 2010, 09:15:10 pm »
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Any comments, suggestions, or thoughts? Smiley
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cpeeks
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« Reply #86 on: April 16, 2010, 07:38:59 am »
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So im curious,  why did Wallace carry a majority of the black vote while not enforcing de-segregation, enacting racist policies and appointing Strom Thurmong to the bench? And why did the democrats hold there convention in Mobile, Alabama a city, that in 1972, had a population of barely 100,000 people, with not even a two star hotel or a handful of fine dining establishments and 200 miles away from the nearest international airport?
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« Reply #87 on: April 16, 2010, 12:33:03 pm »
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It is clear that Mark Hatfield represents the only viable philosophical alternative to President Wallace's ideology of collectivism and hatred in this timeline. Let us hope he gets the nod in 1976.
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Life is change --
How it differs from the rocks
I've seen their ways
Too often for my liking

New worlds to gain
My life is to survive
And be alive
For you


- Jefferson Airplane, "Crown of Creation"

The right to die in Iraq was a right not previously possessed by Americans for twelve long years.  Bush rectified that.
Dallasfan65
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« Reply #88 on: April 16, 2010, 01:28:26 pm »
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It is clear that Mark Hatfield represents the only viable philosophical alternative to President Wallace's ideology of collectivism and hatred in this timeline. Let us hope he gets the nod in 1976.
You'll have to keep reading to find out! Tongue

Any plans on updating Make Our Day, btw?
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« Reply #89 on: April 16, 2010, 01:31:07 pm »
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Eventually, yes. I'd developed it to its barest bones on my old computer (mostly just electoral maps out to 2000), but then my computer crashed and I had to purchase a new one. I'll probably tackle it again starting sometime this weekend.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 01:32:43 pm by Scam of God »Logged

Life is change --
How it differs from the rocks
I've seen their ways
Too often for my liking

New worlds to gain
My life is to survive
And be alive
For you


- Jefferson Airplane, "Crown of Creation"

The right to die in Iraq was a right not previously possessed by Americans for twelve long years.  Bush rectified that.
cpeeks
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« Reply #90 on: April 16, 2010, 02:12:55 pm »
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So basically you saying Wallace played both ends to the middle by playing lip service to blue collar whites, who felt the encroachment of blacks threatened there way of life, and throwing them a bone with Thurmonds nomination to the bench, yet quietly helping out blacks by increasing welfare state policies?
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« Reply #91 on: April 16, 2010, 02:29:27 pm »
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And the only thing I disagree with you about was Wallaces increased welfare spending even though a populist Wallace was strongly against the welfare as it existed under President Johnson's Great Society program, Wallace referred to it as "welfare loafing", but all in all pretty good understang of, Wallace, as an Alabamian im very impressed at the knowledge of him from someone so young, let alone not being from Alabama, but you did leave out one thing, his wife Lurleen, who at the time was Governor  died in office in  May 1968, so you left out that while he was running for President his wife, the Governor of Alabama died. But very good job capturing the true Wallace.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 02:39:07 pm by cpeeks »Logged
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« Reply #92 on: April 16, 2010, 03:15:16 pm »
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Wallace said whatever Wallace needed to say at any given time; the man had no principles at all to speak of. I've no doubt that, if push came to shove, Wallace would vigorously defend the Great Society against a libertarian opponent like Mark Hatfield. And his goal wouldn't have been to "quietly help out blacks", but poor white trash.
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Life is change --
How it differs from the rocks
I've seen their ways
Too often for my liking

New worlds to gain
My life is to survive
And be alive
For you


- Jefferson Airplane, "Crown of Creation"

The right to die in Iraq was a right not previously possessed by Americans for twelve long years.  Bush rectified that.
cpeeks
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« Reply #93 on: April 16, 2010, 03:30:08 pm »
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Wallace was the ultimate politician, see the 1958 governors when he denounced segregation on Alabama public television, got hammered in the run-off by Attorney General John Patterson , and said "well boys i'll never be out n******d again". Four years later it was "segration today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever", and in 1982 he apologized to blacks and won enough of there vote to get re-elected governor. As far as your statement of helping "poor white trash", I suggest you look at the free text book act of 1964, the junior college and trade school act of 1966, I am pretty sure those helped out as many poor blacks as white, and lets not forget about all the schools, medical clinincs , and infastructure he built in the black belt, and all the roads he paved there, but  I am sure no blacks ever benefitted from that. LOL
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« Reply #94 on: April 16, 2010, 03:37:13 pm »
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As far as your statement of helping "poor white trash", I suggest you look at the free text book act of 1964, the junior college and trade school act of 1966, I am pretty sure those helped out as many poor blacks as white, and lets not forget about all the schools, medical clinincs , and infastructure he built in the black belt, and all the roads he paved there, but  I am sure no blacks ever benefitted from that. LOL

Don't kid yourself: Wallace's first, second, third and only political concern was in bettering the white trash of the Southern regions. Northern whites and ethnics and African-Americans could all take a hike in comparison. In the event that this timeline turns out like I suspect - a fiscally conservative, socially libertarian Republican Party against an increasingly populistic Democratic Party, those are exactly the battle lines which will be drawn. And the GOP will be in the right constantly and consistently.
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Life is change --
How it differs from the rocks
I've seen their ways
Too often for my liking

New worlds to gain
My life is to survive
And be alive
For you


- Jefferson Airplane, "Crown of Creation"

The right to die in Iraq was a right not previously possessed by Americans for twelve long years.  Bush rectified that.
cpeeks
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« Reply #95 on: April 16, 2010, 03:49:28 pm »
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White trash southernors? Really? So thats why Wallace won the Wisconsin and Indiana primaries in 1964? Or Michigan in 1972? Wallace was for the the little guy and he always said that. When he was a Curcuit Judge in the 1950's he had a black lawer that practiced in his court and the man wasn't allowed in resteruants, so Wallace would order lunch and they would eat in his private chambers everyday, ya a "man of no principles" as you stated. Wallace wanted to be president, but he had to sell his soul to become governor of Alabama with the race issue and that cost him any chance to fullfill his national aspirations.
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« Reply #96 on: April 16, 2010, 03:51:39 pm »
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White trash southernors? Really? So thats why Wallace won the Wisconsin and Indiana primaries in 1964? Or Michigan in 1972?

White trash exists in the north, too; they're called "members of the working-class".

Quote
Wallace was for the the little guy and he always said that.

That's perfectly fine. It doesn't change the fact he was a populist lunatic - in fact, it enforces it - who ought to be soundly trounced in 1972 by a libertarian Republican.
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Life is change --
How it differs from the rocks
I've seen their ways
Too often for my liking

New worlds to gain
My life is to survive
And be alive
For you


- Jefferson Airplane, "Crown of Creation"

The right to die in Iraq was a right not previously possessed by Americans for twelve long years.  Bush rectified that.
cpeeks
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« Reply #97 on: April 16, 2010, 03:52:48 pm »
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LOL. WHOA, are you serious? You think blue collar workers are white trash? Your agains the small people?
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« Reply #98 on: April 16, 2010, 03:55:18 pm »
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LOL. WHOA, are you serious? You think blue collar workers are white trash? Your agains the small people?

Along with members of the Southern Baptist Church, the United Auto Workers, the Sons (and Daughters) of the Confederacy, the White Citizen's Council, the Teamsters' Union, and other such dregs, yes.
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Life is change --
How it differs from the rocks
I've seen their ways
Too often for my liking

New worlds to gain
My life is to survive
And be alive
For you


- Jefferson Airplane, "Crown of Creation"

The right to die in Iraq was a right not previously possessed by Americans for twelve long years.  Bush rectified that.
cpeeks
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« Reply #99 on: April 16, 2010, 03:59:48 pm »
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WOW!!!! So then the people who produce the cars, build the houses, run the trains, operate the crates, are dengenerates who are not of worthy of you?
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