Clinton slams Israel on housing announcement

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

She needs to "accidentally" hold some of of Israel's $3 billion a year they get from us until they get the hint.

Not likely, considering the "firestorm" that has broken out just for daring to slightly oppose one Israeli action.

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[useful idiot]

She needs to "accidentally" hold some of of Israel's $3 billion a year they get from us until they get the hint.

Not likely, considering the "firestorm" that has broken out just for daring to slightly oppose one Israeli action.

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I'm not an anti-Semite, but I can see how someone could easily get turned into one...

[Sbane]

She needs to "accidentally" hold some of of Israel's $3 billion a year they get from us until they get the hint.

Not likely, considering the "firestorm" that has broken out just for daring to slightly oppose one Israeli action.

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I'm not an anti-Semite, but I can see how someone could easily get turned into one...

No, the word you are looking for is anti-zionist. I don't see how this despicable move by Israel should make me not like Jewish people as a whole.

[useful idiot]

She needs to "accidentally" hold some of of Israel's $3 billion a year they get from us until they get the hint.

Not likely, considering the "firestorm" that has broken out just for daring to slightly oppose one Israeli action.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I'm not an anti-Semite, but I can see how someone could easily get turned into one...

No, the word you are looking for is anti-zionist. I don't see how this despicable move by Israel should make me not like Jewish people as a whole.

I wasn't referring to Israel, but their defenders in the form of nearly every Jewish organization out there. Again, I'm not an anti-Semite, but I can understand how people that don't know a lot of Jews on a personal level could be...

[Franzl]

I love the Republican response that we need to blindly show solidarity with Israel.

Obviously, it's impossible to disagree with an "ally" without "recklessly endangering the relationship".

[Silent Hunter]

I love the Republican response that we need to blindly show solidarity with Israel.

Obviously, it's impossible to disagree with an "ally" without "recklessly endangering the relationship".

There's a difference between disagreements in private and open public criticism.

By the way, this settlement idea is stupid.

[Bo]

By the way, this settlement idea is stupid.

Which settlement idea? Obama's call for an Israeli settlement freeze or Israel's building of new homes in East Jerusalem (which is not covered by the settlement freeze)?

[useful idiot]

She needs to "accidentally" hold some of of Israel's $3 billion a year they get from us until they get the hint.

Not likely, considering the "firestorm" that has broken out just for daring to slightly oppose one Israeli action.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I'm not an anti-Semite, but I can see how someone could easily get turned into one...

No, the word you are looking for is anti-zionist. I don't see how this despicable move by Israel should make me not like Jewish people as a whole.

I wasn't referring to Israel, but their defenders in the form of nearly every Jewish organization out there. Again, I'm not an anti-Semite, but I can understand how people that don't know a lot of Jews on a personal level could be...

Well, the propaganda rag of the anti-defamation league is rather insignificant in terms of political ramifications.  By far, it's non-Jewish support for Israel that provides the bulk of the domestic momentum for our Israel policy, rather than some Jewish elite conspiracy.  Poll after poll confirms this.

Non-Jewish support for Israel is heavily influence by our oh so unbiased media, which holds up the ADL as the standardbearer for Jewish opinion. I even think that the majority of Evangelical support for Israel is thin, based on false information from the media, political elites, and dispensationalist televangelists. Don't kid yourself, Jewish special interest groups and Jewish Americans in the media have a lot to do with this. There is generally a healthy and robust debate within Israel about their policies, but most people in America wouldn't know that at all. The things you read in Haaretz written by Jews or said by Peace Now activists would bring down a firestorm of accusations of anti-Semetism in the U.S.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

IIRC the last poll on Americans' perceptions of other countries had something like 40% having an unfavorable view of Israel. Yes it's true the radical AIPAC lobby would accuse many Jewish activists and the Israeli left of things like anti-Semitism, but that doesn't mean everyone buys into that.

Really it's amazing just how counter-productive these people are and how they actually lead to actual anti-Semitism, just like how the Catholic League is great for spawning anti-Catholicism. (Not that the Catholic League isn't far more pointless though since anti-Catholicism hasn't been a major factor in any way since the 60s.)

[Silent Hunter]

By the way, this settlement idea is stupid.

Which settlement idea? Obama's call for an Israeli settlement freeze or Israel's building of new homes in East Jerusalem (which is not covered by the settlement freeze)?

The latter. Sorry, I should have been clearer.

[danny]

IIRC the last poll on Americans' perceptions of other countries had something like 40% having an unfavorable view of Israel. Yes it's true the radical AIPAC lobby would accuse many Jewish activists and the Israeli left of things like anti-Semitism, but that doesn't mean everyone buys into that.

Really it's amazing just how counter-productive these people are and how they actually lead to actual anti-Semitism, just like how the Catholic League is great for spawning anti-Catholicism. (Not that the Catholic League isn't far more pointless though since anti-Catholicism hasn't been a major factor in any way since the 60s.)

25% in the the latest I could find (65% favourable):

http://www.gallup.com/poll/126116/Canada-Places-First-Image-Contest-Iran-Last.aspx

[danny]

Why don't we just decrease our financial support for Israel by around $1 billion and see how they react? I feel like if we actually back up our words then they would actually stop building these new, ridiculous settlements.

Substantially decreasing financial support would do the job and I'm in favor of it, but Congress won't let that happen large scale.

Didn't Bush Sr. threaten to cut off aid to Israel? That accomplished some results.

From a January 2010 article in the Christian Science Monitor:

"President Bush and loan guarantees

In late 1990, Israel requested $10 billion in loan guarantees from the US, mostly to finance the resettlement of Soviet Jews in the country. In 1991, then President George H. W. Bush asked Congress to delay action on the loan guarantee as he sought to arrange an Arab-Israeli peace conference. In early 1992, then-Secretary of State James Baker said the president would not approve the loan guarantees unless Israel promised to halt settlement expansion. Then Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin announced a settlement freeze in July of 1992 and the guarantee program was approved that October. "

Announced, but implemented in any meaningful way.

[danny]

Its so awesome that American civilians and troops are dying to protect Israel.  As for the houses, can't palestinians just live in them after they are built?  Or are they only for jewish people?  Wow, what an awesome country.

the ability to live in settlements is based on citizenship, not ethnicity, so Arabs can, and sometimes do live in settlements. In the case of this particular settlement based on its existing demographics it is unlikely that Arabs or Jews who are not Haredi will live in these houses when they are built.

[ag]

Its so awesome that American civilians and troops are dying to protect Israel.  As for the houses, can't palestinians just live in them after they are built?  Or are they only for jewish people?  Wow, what an awesome country.

the ability to live in settlements is based on citizenship, not ethnicity, so Arabs can, and sometimes do live in settlements. In the case of this particular settlement based on its existing demographics it is unlikely that Arabs or Jews who are not Haredi will live in these houses when they are built.

It's a bit more complicated then you imply. Even within Israel its Arab citizens are de facto banned from leasing most land in public domain, despite High Court decisions to the contrary: the public agency administering the land flat out refuses to rent it to non-Jews.  Likewise, to the best of my knowledge, there is no ban on religious discrimination by private developers. While one can imagine an enlightened settlement administration that is welcoming the non-Jewish neighbors, I would need to see evidence of a substantial non-Jewish population in any of the settlements to believe it. Thus, though, perhaps, technically it may be true that an Israeli Arab may legally settle in such a settlement, I believe, in practice he'd find it harder than a black American would have found it to settle in an all-white town somewhere in South Carolina in the 1920s. I have not seen any evidence to the contrary, though I'd be happy to be disabused.

[ag]

Just confirming my hunch, though it's pretty hard to find religious demographics for the settlements (perhaps, because it is so trivial), Wikipedia claims that according to Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics one of the largest and relatively moderate WB settlement - Maale Adumim, w/ over 30,000 residents - was 99.8% Jewish in 2001. It's not hard to imagine that there were around 60 halachically non-Jewish half-castes married/born to Jews resident there, or a gentile American girlfriend of some youngster, or, perhaps, a half-dozen live-in servants from the Philippines, or whatever. So the number of actual Arabs - of whatever religion - in town must be negligible, if it is positive at all.

[danny]

Just confirming my hunch, though it's pretty hard to find religious demographics for the settlements (perhaps, because it is so trivial), Wikipedia claims that according to Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics one of the largest and relatively moderate WB settlement - Maale Adumim, w/ over 30,000 residents - was 99.8% Jewish in 2001. It's not hard to imagine that there were around 60 halachically non-Jewish half-castes married/born to Jews resident there, or a gentile American girlfriend of some youngster, or, perhaps, a half-dozen live-in servants from the Philippines, or whatever. So the number of actual Arabs - of whatever religion - in town must be negligible, if it is positive at all.

That number that Wikipedia uses for Jewish comes from what the Israeli census bureaus calls Jews and others which includes all the examples you gave. The number just for Jews is 97.3 but for Ariel, another settlement city it's 81.5.

[Chaim]

Hillary is still beholden to Israel. We don't have anyone is power who will stand up to Israel they even Sharon said that they control America.

[milhouse24]

Non-Jewish support for Israel is heavily influence by our oh so unbiased media, which holds up the ADL as the standardbearer for Jewish opinion. I even think that the majority of Evangelical support for Israel is thin, based on false information from the media, political elites, and dispensationalist televangelists. Don't kid yourself, Jewish special interest groups and Jewish Americans in the media have a lot to do with this. There is generally a healthy and robust debate within Israel about their policies, but most people in America wouldn't know that at all. The things you read in Haaretz written by Jews or said by Peace Now activists would bring down a firestorm of accusations of anti-Semetism in the U.S.

I totally agree with this.  We almost never discuss Israeli policy on Palestinian refugees and the Israel govt, unless it is to say that Muslims are bad and Muslims are terrorists.

Most Americans don't realize that Muslims are upset and attacking the USA civilians because of US support for Israel policies.  Americans are led to believe by the media that we have to kill Muslims in Iraq and Afghanastan in order to obtain peace and stop terrorists.  That is completely untrue, the only way to stop Muslim terrorists is to change Israel's policies and create a Palestinian Govt - separate and equal!

[dead0man]

Yeah, that'll stop it! 

(sarcasm intended)

[Bo]

Non-Jewish support for Israel is heavily influence by our oh so unbiased media, which holds up the ADL as the standardbearer for Jewish opinion. I even think that the majority of Evangelical support for Israel is thin, based on false information from the media, political elites, and dispensationalist televangelists. Don't kid yourself, Jewish special interest groups and Jewish Americans in the media have a lot to do with this. There is generally a healthy and robust debate within Israel about their policies, but most people in America wouldn't know that at all. The things you read in Haaretz written by Jews or said by Peace Now activists would bring down a firestorm of accusations of anti-Semetism in the U.S.

I totally agree with this.  We almost never discuss Israeli policy on Palestinian refugees and the Israel govt, unless it is to say that Muslims are bad and Muslims are terrorists.

Most Americans don't realize that Muslims are upset and attacking the USA civilians because of US support for Israel policies.  Americans are led to believe by the media that we have to kill Muslims in Iraq and Afghanastan in order to obtain peace and stop terrorists.  That is completely untrue, the only way to stop Muslim terrorists is to change Israel's policies and create a Palestinian Govt - separate and equal!

Bin Laden never used Israel as a reason for why he implemented 9/11. And honestly, when Truman, Ike, JFK, and Clinton were very tough on Israel, relations with the Arab and Muslim worlds weren't that much better than they are now. So stop writing all this anti-Semitic crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Хahar 🤔]

Anti-Semitic?

Learn the meaning of words before you throw them around. Don't you constantly mention how you had relatives who died in the Holocaust?

[danny]

Non-Jewish support for Israel is heavily influence by our oh so unbiased media, which holds up the ADL as the standardbearer for Jewish opinion. I even think that the majority of Evangelical support for Israel is thin, based on false information from the media, political elites, and dispensationalist televangelists. Don't kid yourself, Jewish special interest groups and Jewish Americans in the media have a lot to do with this. There is generally a healthy and robust debate within Israel about their policies, but most people in America wouldn't know that at all. The things you read in Haaretz written by Jews or said by Peace Now activists would bring down a firestorm of accusations of anti-Semetism in the U.S.

I totally agree with this.  We almost never discuss Israeli policy on Palestinian refugees and the Israel govt, unless it is to say that Muslims are bad and Muslims are terrorists.

Most Americans don't realize that Muslims are upset and attacking the USA civilians because of US support for Israel policies.  Americans are led to believe by the media that we have to kill Muslims in Iraq and Afghanastan in order to obtain peace and stop terrorists.  That is completely untrue, the only way to stop Muslim terrorists is to change Israel's policies and create a Palestinian Govt - separate and equal!

Al Qaeda attacking the US has very little to do with Israel, and Al Qaeda doesn't support a two state solution anyway.

[dead0man]

No no no, it's all Israel's fault that racist Muslims (note I didn't say or suggest all or even most Muslims were racists) kill Americans because we support Israel.  It makes perfect sense.  Just like it was England's fault when racist Germans killed Americans before we entered WWII because we supported England at the time.


GODWIN'd!

[ag]

Just confirming my hunch, though it's pretty hard to find religious demographics for the settlements (perhaps, because it is so trivial), Wikipedia claims that according to Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics one of the largest and relatively moderate WB settlement - Maale Adumim, w/ over 30,000 residents - was 99.8% Jewish in 2001. It's not hard to imagine that there were around 60 halachically non-Jewish half-castes married/born to Jews resident there, or a gentile American girlfriend of some youngster, or, perhaps, a half-dozen live-in servants from the Philippines, or whatever. So the number of actual Arabs - of whatever religion - in town must be negligible, if it is positive at all.

That number that Wikipedia uses for Jewish comes from what the Israeli census bureaus calls Jews and others which includes all the examples you gave. The number just for Jews is 97.3 but for Ariel, another settlement city it's 81.5.

Ok, I take it, census is not counting by the Halacha. So, in Maale Adumim there may be about 60 Arabs - upper estimate - out of 30,000 residents. Still, this is an upper estimate - Philippino servants and American evangelical musicians and Hindu girlfriends are not very likely to be included into "Jewish" category by the census, are they?

The bulk of the halachical non-Jews in the settlements are ex-Soviets, who don't qualify by the mother rule, but who were considered (and considered themselves) Jewish all their lives in the ex-USSR.  I still see no evidence of a substantial Israeli Arab settlement.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Hillary is still beholden to Israel. We don't have anyone is power who will stand up to Israel they even Sharon said that they control America.

How so?