JFK or LBJ?
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  JFK or LBJ?
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Poll
Question: Who do you think was a better president?
#1
JFK
 
#2
LBJ
 
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Total Voters: 109

Author Topic: JFK or LBJ?  (Read 18775 times)
Bo
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« Reply #50 on: May 05, 2010, 05:10:54 PM »


Yes, he did.
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Tuck!
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« Reply #51 on: May 05, 2010, 06:07:54 PM »

John Fitzgerald Kennedy was a better president.
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Bo
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« Reply #52 on: May 05, 2010, 06:12:57 PM »

John Fitzgerald Kennedy was a better president.

Why?
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tuckerbanks
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« Reply #53 on: May 05, 2010, 06:14:05 PM »


LBJ carried on the Vietnam War. It doesn't matter who started it, LBJ had the chance to get out when things started getting worse and instead he proceeded toward disaster.
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Bo
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« Reply #54 on: May 05, 2010, 06:29:48 PM »


LBJ carried on the Vietnam War. It doesn't matter who started it, LBJ had the chance to get out when things started getting worse and instead he proceeded toward disaster.

LBJ pushed through much more domestic legislation than JFK. Also, JFK nearly caused a nuclear war by placing American missiles in Turkey and provoking the U.S.S.R., causing them to place missiles in Cuba. Not to mention that JFK screwed up the Bay of Pigs and also increased U.S. troops levels in Vietnam (from 750 to 14,000). Finally, hindsight is 20-20--LBJ thought Vietnam was going to be another Korea and that he needed to prevent the U.S.S.R. from expanding its infeluence in Southeast Asia (due to the domino theory). He didn't know the U.S. would lose the war or so many lives. It's only in hindisght that Vietnam could clearly be said to be a mistake. Beleive me, if Vietnam ended up like Korea, everybody would be calling LBJ a true hero and a great President.
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justW353
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« Reply #55 on: May 05, 2010, 07:01:33 PM »


LBJ carried on the Vietnam War. It doesn't matter who started it, LBJ had the chance to get out when things started getting worse and instead he proceeded toward disaster.

LBJ pushed through much more domestic legislation than JFK. Also, JFK nearly caused a nuclear war by placing American missiles in Turkey and provoking the U.S.S.R., causing them to place missiles in Cuba. Not to mention that JFK screwed up the Bay of Pigs and also increased U.S. troops levels in Vietnam (from 750 to 14,000). Finally, hindsight is 20-20--LBJ thought Vietnam was going to be another Korea and that he needed to prevent the U.S.S.R. from expanding its infeluence in Southeast Asia (due to the domino theory). He didn't know the U.S. would lose the war or so many lives. It's only in hindisght that Vietnam could clearly be said to be a mistake. Beleive me, if Vietnam ended up like Korea, everybody would be calling LBJ a true hero and a great President.

JFK was gonna pull out of Vietnam.
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Bo
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« Reply #56 on: May 05, 2010, 07:03:59 PM »


LBJ carried on the Vietnam War. It doesn't matter who started it, LBJ had the chance to get out when things started getting worse and instead he proceeded toward disaster.

LBJ pushed through much more domestic legislation than JFK. Also, JFK nearly caused a nuclear war by placing American missiles in Turkey and provoking the U.S.S.R., causing them to place missiles in Cuba. Not to mention that JFK screwed up the Bay of Pigs and also increased U.S. troops levels in Vietnam (from 750 to 14,000). Finally, hindsight is 20-20--LBJ thought Vietnam was going to be another Korea and that he needed to prevent the U.S.S.R. from expanding its infeluence in Southeast Asia (due to the domino theory). He didn't know the U.S. would lose the war or so many lives. It's only in hindisght that Vietnam could clearly be said to be a mistake. Beleive me, if Vietnam ended up like Korea, everybody would be calling LBJ a true hero and a great President.

JFK was gonna pull out of Vietnam.

He might have changed his mind about that if he survived.
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President Mitt
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« Reply #57 on: May 08, 2010, 07:04:55 AM »

It's pretty hard to compare the two considering one died two years into his term. LBJ had more time to do good things and do bad things.
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #58 on: May 08, 2010, 09:35:06 AM »

I say LBJ, he simply got more things done, but his legacy is still the Vietnam War and the failed suppreme crt nominee and cost us a true progressive as Chief Justice there were way more qualified Dems to fill that vacancy on, he could of did what Nixon, Warren and Truman did, go outside the Scrt to pick his nominee. Although Marshall would have won my vote.
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hcallega
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« Reply #59 on: May 08, 2010, 09:38:51 AM »

JFK saved the world from Nuclear War aprx 6-7 times. LBJ pushed America into a quagmire which doomed the Democratic Party for a generation.

Also, it's debatable if the Great Society (outside of Civil Rights) was so great anyway.
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opebo
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« Reply #60 on: May 09, 2010, 05:02:48 PM »

Although LBJ is obviously the best American president aside from FDR, it is to JFK's credit that he is the third best, and certainly far better than anything since LBJ.

I'm not saying that it is clear that FDR is better than LBJ, just that they are the two best, and it is arguable that they're tied or one a bit better than the other, but there would be no rationale for putting any others in their league.. well that is, assuming 'liberal' values.  Obviously if you oppose rights for minorities, workers, etc., then various Republicans would be better.
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Bo
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« Reply #61 on: May 09, 2010, 05:47:15 PM »

JFK saved the world from Nuclear War aprx 6-7 times. LBJ pushed America into a quagmire which doomed the Democratic Party for a generation.

Also, it's debatable if the Great Society (outside of Civil Rights) was so great anyway.

The only time JFK "saved" the world from nuclear war was during the Missile Crisis, and that was caused by his own recklessness in the first place in placing American missiles in Turkey and provoking the U.S.S.R. Vietnam wasn't the only thing that doomed Democrats for a generation--does Carter, Jimmy ring a bell? Also, giving healthcare to seniors is a good thing. Enviornemntal protection adn consumer protection are also great things, and I'm pretty sure all of taht was also included in the Great Society.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #62 on: May 10, 2010, 03:14:45 PM »

JFK saved the world from Nuclear War aprx 6-7 times.

lol?

It's a miracle that the man didn't cause a nuclear war.
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hcallega
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« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2010, 03:51:52 PM »

JFK saved the world from Nuclear War aprx 6-7 times.

lol?

It's a miracle that the man didn't cause a nuclear war.

1-Cuban Missile Crisis: Did not do as Curtis LeMay and many of advisors wished and initiate a first strike.
2-Bay of Pigs: Did not invade Cuba following the failure of the Cuban fighters
3-Berlin: Ordered his generals to pull back troops in what looked like the beginning of World War Three
4-Laos: Pushed for negotiations rather than a confrontation
5-Vietnam: Planned on with drawling forces rather than get into what LBJ did
While these aren't all nuclear war, they prove that he was anything but a hawk.

Also, in terms of the Great Society, some parts of it were good. But by in large it was an example of noble intentions, followed by bad administration and poor implementation. The belief that poverty can be ended through handouts is perhaps the most flat-out wrong belief when it comes to the War on Poverty. The only way to end the cycle of poverty is through jobs and education, neither of which were effectively provided by the Great Society. It was like the parent who think they are helping their child by giving them whatever they want (spoiling). It may do some good, but it dosen't teach them the life skills necessary for the future. I tend to agree with RFK on this: jobs not welfare, private sector not strictly public sector.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #64 on: May 10, 2010, 06:14:57 PM »

In all seriousness - IIRC I had some libertarian-trolling comments about the greatness of LBJ earlier in this thread - Johnson was good, on balance, although obviously Vietnam drags his rating down a little, but Kennedy saved the world from nuclear war.

So, uh, yeah, Kennedy.
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Bo
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« Reply #65 on: May 12, 2010, 05:13:25 PM »

JFK saved the world from Nuclear War aprx 6-7 times.

lol?

It's a miracle that the man didn't cause a nuclear war.

Exactly. He came extremely close to causing one by placing American missiles in Turkey.
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Bo
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« Reply #66 on: May 12, 2010, 05:16:18 PM »

JFK saved the world from Nuclear War aprx 6-7 times.

lol?

It's a miracle that the man didn't cause a nuclear war.

1-Cuban Missile Crisis: Did not do as Curtis LeMay and many of advisors wished and initiate a first strike.
2-Bay of Pigs: Did not invade Cuba following the failure of the Cuban fighters
3-Berlin: Ordered his generals to pull back troops in what looked like the beginning of World War Three
4-Laos: Pushed for negotiations rather than a confrontation
5-Vietnam: Planned on with drawling forces rather than get into what LBJ did
While these aren't all nuclear war, they prove that he was anything but a hawk.

Also, in terms of the Great Society, some parts of it were good. But by in large it was an example of noble intentions, followed by bad administration and poor implementation. The belief that poverty can be ended through handouts is perhaps the most flat-out wrong belief when it comes to the War on Poverty. The only way to end the cycle of poverty is through jobs and education, neither of which were effectively provided by the Great Society. It was like the parent who think they are helping their child by giving them whatever they want (spoiling). It may do some good, but it dosen't teach them the life skills necessary for the future. I tend to agree with RFK on this: jobs not welfare, private sector not strictly public sector.

1. Was cuased by JFK's own incompetence by placing American missiles in Turkey
2. Was caused by JFK's own incomptence in screwing up the Big of Pigs by not giving the Cuban rebels their promised American air support
3-5. Not a guarantee nuclear war would have occured. Keep in mind that the U.S.S.R. was also very strongly afraid of a nuclear war. Also, just because JFk planeed on withdrawing U.S. troops from Vietnam doesn't mean he might not have changed his mind later. LBJ initialyl opposed escalation of the Vietnam War and only alter began to support it.
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Psychic Octopus
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« Reply #67 on: February 06, 2012, 10:30:06 PM »

Has anyone's opinions changed? Any new perspectives?
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #68 on: February 07, 2012, 02:40:27 AM »

Has anyone's opinions changed? Any new perspectives?

Still LBJ. You can dissert as much as you want about what Kennedy would have done if not assassinated, but when you compare actual records it's pretty clear.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2012, 07:27:18 AM »

28 of you have got to be kidding me.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2012, 10:58:34 AM »

LBJ's program was basically JFK's, but more aggressive (both on the domestic side and the Cold War foreign policy side).
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #71 on: February 07, 2012, 04:07:57 PM »

JFK, no contest.
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Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
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« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2012, 05:02:15 PM »

Kennedy of course. Escalating the only war we've ever lost vs. preventing nucular war. I'll take the latter.
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MIKESOWELL
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« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2012, 07:02:55 PM »

I think that Kennedy was a very good president, but I think that LBJ was miles ahead of Kennedy when it came to domestic issues. Johnson's civil rights legacy to me should far outweigh the Vietnam War weight.
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Earthling
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« Reply #74 on: February 08, 2012, 09:43:48 AM »

Kennedy of course. Escalating the only war we've ever lost vs. preventing nucular war. I'll take the latter.

Iraq wasn't really a win for the US either.

But LBJ wins in my opinion. He probably was a gigantic S.O.B. but he got things done.
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