JFK or LBJ?

[Bo]

LBJ by far. JFK is way overrated.

[Bo]

but at least LNJ had civil rights and the Great Society. Kennedy really is an overrated President.

Who's LNJ? I'm assuming you have a typo and mean LBJ.

[Bo]

Johnson, the last President to actually do something to help the poor and the downtrodden in America.

Obama?

[Bo]

I suppose it's kind of a good thing that Kennedy was killed.  I can't imagine him with graying hair in the '80s.  Plus, he'd probably be a divorced womanizer.  I suppose his reputation now is someone eternally young, energetic, charismatic, tragic, I guess that's a good thing for him.

No one remembers the Bay of Pigs anymore, they remember the Missile Crisis...The ones that are killed have it easier I guess.

Not to be mean, but I'm not sure JFK would have survived to the 1980s if he was not assasinated. He had Addison's disease, after all, and possibly some other diseases. In regards to the Cuban Missile Crisis, JFK caused it himself by recklessly placing American missiles in Turkey and provoking the U.S.S.R. (which in turn, caused them to place missiles in Cuba). All of this could have been avoided if JFK was a more rational decision-maker.

[Bo]

Why is LBJ winning, as Libertas mentioned already, LBJ was evil

Because LBJ did good things.

No he didn't.

Yes, he did.

[Bo]

John Fitzgerald Kennedy was a better president.

Why?

[Bo]

John Fitzgerald Kennedy was a better president.

Why?

LBJ carried on the Vietnam War. It doesn't matter who started it, LBJ had the chance to get out when things started getting worse and instead he proceeded toward disaster.

LBJ pushed through much more domestic legislation than JFK. Also, JFK nearly caused a nuclear war by placing American missiles in Turkey and provoking the U.S.S.R., causing them to place missiles in Cuba. Not to mention that JFK screwed up the Bay of Pigs and also increased U.S. troops levels in Vietnam (from 750 to 14,000). Finally, hindsight is 20-20--LBJ thought Vietnam was going to be another Korea and that he needed to prevent the U.S.S.R. from expanding its infeluence in Southeast Asia (due to the domino theory). He didn't know the U.S. would lose the war or so many lives. It's only in hindisght that Vietnam could clearly be said to be a mistake. Beleive me, if Vietnam ended up like Korea, everybody would be calling LBJ a true hero and a great President.

[Bo]

John Fitzgerald Kennedy was a better president.

Why?

LBJ carried on the Vietnam War. It doesn't matter who started it, LBJ had the chance to get out when things started getting worse and instead he proceeded toward disaster.

LBJ pushed through much more domestic legislation than JFK. Also, JFK nearly caused a nuclear war by placing American missiles in Turkey and provoking the U.S.S.R., causing them to place missiles in Cuba. Not to mention that JFK screwed up the Bay of Pigs and also increased U.S. troops levels in Vietnam (from 750 to 14,000). Finally, hindsight is 20-20--LBJ thought Vietnam was going to be another Korea and that he needed to prevent the U.S.S.R. from expanding its infeluence in Southeast Asia (due to the domino theory). He didn't know the U.S. would lose the war or so many lives. It's only in hindisght that Vietnam could clearly be said to be a mistake. Beleive me, if Vietnam ended up like Korea, everybody would be calling LBJ a true hero and a great President.

JFK was gonna pull out of Vietnam.

He might have changed his mind about that if he survived.

[Bo]

JFK saved the world from Nuclear War aprx 6-7 times. LBJ pushed America into a quagmire which doomed the Democratic Party for a generation.

Also, it's debatable if the Great Society (outside of Civil Rights) was so great anyway.

The only time JFK "saved" the world from nuclear war was during the Missile Crisis, and that was caused by his own recklessness in the first place in placing American missiles in Turkey and provoking the U.S.S.R. Vietnam wasn't the only thing that doomed Democrats for a generation--does Carter, Jimmy ring a bell? Also, giving healthcare to seniors is a good thing. Enviornemntal protection adn consumer protection are also great things, and I'm pretty sure all of taht was also included in the Great Society.

[Bo]

JFK saved the world from Nuclear War aprx 6-7 times.

lol?

It's a miracle that the man didn't cause a nuclear war.

Exactly. He came extremely close to causing one by placing American missiles in Turkey.

[Bo]

JFK saved the world from Nuclear War aprx 6-7 times.

lol?

It's a miracle that the man didn't cause a nuclear war.

1-Cuban Missile Crisis: Did not do as Curtis LeMay and many of advisors wished and initiate a first strike.
2-Bay of Pigs: Did not invade Cuba following the failure of the Cuban fighters
3-Berlin: Ordered his generals to pull back troops in what looked like the beginning of World War Three
4-Laos: Pushed for negotiations rather than a confrontation
5-Vietnam: Planned on with drawling forces rather than get into what LBJ did
While these aren't all nuclear war, they prove that he was anything but a hawk.

Also, in terms of the Great Society, some parts of it were good. But by in large it was an example of noble intentions, followed by bad administration and poor implementation. The belief that poverty can be ended through handouts is perhaps the most flat-out wrong belief when it comes to the War on Poverty. The only way to end the cycle of poverty is through jobs and education, neither of which were effectively provided by the Great Society. It was like the parent who think they are helping their child by giving them whatever they want (spoiling). It may do some good, but it dosen't teach them the life skills necessary for the future. I tend to agree with RFK on this: jobs not welfare, private sector not strictly public sector.

1. Was cuased by JFK's own incompetence by placing American missiles in Turkey
2. Was caused by JFK's own incomptence in screwing up the Big of Pigs by not giving the Cuban rebels their promised American air support
3-5. Not a guarantee nuclear war would have occured. Keep in mind that the U.S.S.R. was also very strongly afraid of a nuclear war. Also, just because JFk planeed on withdrawing U.S. troops from Vietnam doesn't mean he might not have changed his mind later. LBJ initialyl opposed escalation of the Vietnam War and only alter began to support it.