WSJ: Republicans Begin Strategy Rethink

[Lief 🗽]

Ah, President Barack Obama's Waterloo indeed. haha.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704211704575140243058318752.html

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

If the Republicans know what is best for themselves (and for the country), they will unanimously vote NAY on every steaming turd Obama, Pelosi, and Reid cook up.

Even Democrat-in-all-but-name John McCain said "There will be no cooperation for the rest of this year."

[fezzyfestoon]

Beyond the desperate Republican strategies aimed at poking the Democrats to insanity there is a gargantuan underlying flaw.  Instead of focusing 100% of the Republican Party's energy on derailing the Democrats' actual actions, maybe they should actually offer something to the table.  Lead by example maybe?  At this point I thought it was pretty obvious suits with nothing to offer but a letter beside their name were waning in popularity.  It's not the (D) that America is sick of, it's the entire concept of that letter mattering more than anything that it's sick of.  Bold facing The (R) and coloring it in brighter won't make it any more appealing.

[Lunar]

If the Republicans know what is best for themselves, they will unanimously vote NAY

I basically agree with the edited although for different reasons, the current structure is set up in such a way that I see very little benefit for the Republicans to cooperate on the final bill.  If all they care about is winning elections, they should insert their ideas everywhere, pretending to go along with it, and then unanimously demonize it while attempting to convince the public that it's the worst thing since the Holocaust (if not worse) and the most partisan thing since the word partisan was invented by the partisan parties of partay.

And then the Democrats can continue do the same thing and scare the public whenever the Republicans try and reform something.  

It's easier to scare semi-apathetic swing voters than it is to convince your base that the other side may have a few good ideas thrown in there.

[Free Palestine]

It's funny how Democratic hacks are so sure that the people will overwhelmingly support health care and the Democrats, while other hacks are so sure that November will be a landslide for the Republicans.

[Marokai Backbeat]

It's funny how Democratic hacks are so sure that the people will overwhelmingly support health care and the Democrats, while other hacks are so sure that November will be a landslide for the Republicans.

History typically shows that is the case for the first claim. The second is a baseless hope.

False equivalency must be fun.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

It's funny how Democratic hacks are so sure that the people will overwhelmingly support health care and the Democrats, while other hacks are so sure that November will be a landslide for the Republicans.

History typically shows that is the case for the first claim. The second is a baseless hope.

False equivalency must be fun.

Actually, you have things reversed.

[Marokai Backbeat]

It's funny how Democratic hacks are so sure that the people will overwhelmingly support health care and the Democrats, while other hacks are so sure that November will be a landslide for the Republicans.

History typically shows that is the case for the first claim. The second is a baseless hope.

False equivalency must be fun.

Actually, you have things reversed.

Prove it.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

It's funny how Democratic hacks are so sure that the people will overwhelmingly support health care and the Democrats, while other hacks are so sure that November will be a landslide for the Republicans.

History typically shows that is the case for the first claim. The second is a baseless hope.

False equivalency must be fun.

Actually, you have things reversed.

Prove it.

I've studied history. In school.

[Marokai Backbeat]

It's funny how Democratic hacks are so sure that the people will overwhelmingly support health care and the Democrats, while other hacks are so sure that November will be a landslide for the Republicans.

History typically shows that is the case for the first claim. The second is a baseless hope.

False equivalency must be fun.

Actually, you have things reversed.

Prove it.

I've studied history. In school.

In almost every case concerning big healthcare changes, people turn around to support them. People bitched about Medicare, some called it the end of freedom as we know it, socialism, etc etc. It's now hugely popular. Massachusetts (for all the system's problems) has a system that a strong majority of people like. Medicare in Canada had a rocky and scary start, with massive doctor strikes and other stumbling blocks. Now everyone in Canada benefits from it and massively favor it over the system we use.

Already, public opinion changes every so slightly more and more in the positive column just a couple days after the bill's passage. In a month's time, people won't even know what they were freaked out about. In a year, two, three, most people wouldn't even entertain the thought of reversing the changes.

Similar scare tactics have been used for all sorts of things, that, once implemented, don't turn out to destroy the world and turn positively thought of. Contradicting these observable facts, clear as the sky is blue and just as easy to see, is asinine. More asinine is contradicting them without evidence.

As for losing seats, I know Democrats will lose seats. Obvious fact as things stand now. A Republican landslide however, is a fantasy. Nothing supports this conclusion except the hope of party leadership and fanatics of talk radio.

It's hard to contradict what is easily seen.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

It's funny how Democratic hacks are so sure that the people will overwhelmingly support health care and the Democrats, while other hacks are so sure that November will be a landslide for the Republicans.

History typically shows that is the case for the first claim. The second is a baseless hope.

False equivalency must be fun.

Actually, you have things reversed.

Prove it.

I've studied history. In school.

In almost every case concerning big healthcare changes, people turn around to support them. People bitched about Medicare, some called it the end of freedom as we know it, socialism, etc etc. It's now hugely popular. Massachusetts (for all the system's problems) has a system that a strong majority of people like. Medicare in Canada had a rocky and scary start, with massive doctor strikes and other stumbling blocks. Now everyone in Canada benefits from it and massively favor it over the system we use.

Already, public opinion changes every so slightly more and more in the positive column just a couple days after the bill's passage. In a month's time, people won't even know what they were freaked out about. In a year, two, three, most people wouldn't even entertain the thought of reversing the changes.

Similar scare tactics have been used for all sorts of things, that, once implemented, don't turn out to destroy the world and turn positively thought of. Contradicting these observable facts, clear as the sky is blue and just as easy to see, is asinine. More asinine is contradicting them without evidence.

As for losing seats, I know Democrats will lose seats. Obvious fact as things stand now. A Republican landslide however, is a fantasy. Nothing supports this conclusion except the hope of party leadership and fanatics of talk radio.

It's hard to contradict what is easily seen.

Thank you for sharing your most recent personal fantasy. You should write fiction for a living.

[Free Palestine]

I'm very cynical about the intelligence of most Americans, so I would probably side with Marokai on this.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

I'm very cynical about the intelligence of most Americans, so I would probably side with Marokai on this.

Well of course the members of the parasitic class outnumber those of the productive class. That's why we need to work so hard to defend this constitutional republic from the tyranny of the lazy flunk-out majority.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'm very cynical about the intelligence of most Americans, so I would probably side with Marokai on this.

Oh I most definitely am as well. But it is historically (at least) the case that people tend to turn around in support of something big like this as time goes on. It's a combination of memory loss and the realization that it's not as bad as things seemed at first.

It happens more generally with other unrelated things as well. For instance, Carter holds a positive opinion now. As time has gone on, it's gone up, because people's memory of past incidents fade and they default to the positive or neutral opinions. Just a fact of how things go.

[The Duke]

Actually, Marokai, Medicare was very popular when it was enacted.  It did not have to become popular later.

And even a popular health care change like Medicare were not enough to save Democrats from losing 47 House seats in 1966 and the White House in 1968.

Only time will tell whether this has been Obama's Waterloo, but I suspect the Democrats victory will be a Pyhrric one.  This bill actually gives them little of what they want and comes with a heavy political price.  If we're stting here in 2013 watching Mitt Romney bomb Iran whether Democrats will think it was all worth it.

[Free Palestine]

I'm very cynical about the intelligence of most Americans, so I would probably side with Marokai on this.

Oh I most definitely am as well. But it is historically (at least) the case that people tend to turn around in support of something big like this as time goes on. It's a combination of memory loss and the realization that it's not as bad as things seemed at first.

Yes, and the reason for that is because people are stupid, on average.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Actually, Marokai, Medicare was very popular when it was enacted.  It did not have to become popular later.

True, I wasn't suggesting it had widespread opposition, I was just saying there were individuals, like Ronald Reagan, who acted like it would be the end of freedom in the United States as we know it and would lead to Socialism, the government telling doctors where to work, and a whole host of other nonsense. It wasn't, and it really didn't. Hysterical opposition is usually silly and erodes over time, that's all I was suggesting.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Actually, Marokai, Medicare was very popular when it was enacted.  It did not have to become popular later.

And even a popular health care change like Medicare were not enough to save Democrats from losing 47 House seats in 1966 and the White House in 1968.

Only time will tell whether this has been Obama's Waterloo, but I suspect the Democrats victory will be a Pyhrric one.  This bill actually gives them little of what they want and comes with a heavy political price.  If we're stting here in 2013 watching Mitt Romney bomb Iran whether Democrats will think it was all worth it.

That won't happen since ObamaCare has killed any chance of Willard being the GOP nominee.

[The Duke]

Actually, Marokai, Medicare was very popular when it was enacted.  It did not have to become popular later.

And even a popular health care change like Medicare were not enough to save Democrats from losing 47 House seats in 1966 and the White House in 1968.

Only time will tell whether this has been Obama's Waterloo, but I suspect the Democrats victory will be a Pyhrric one.  This bill actually gives them little of what they want and comes with a heavy political price.  If we're stting here in 2013 watching Mitt Romney bomb Iran whether Democrats will think it was all worth it.

That won't happen since ObamaCare has killed any chance of Willard being the GOP nominee.

True enough.  So Tim Pawlenty bombs Iran, then?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

If the Republicans know what is best for themselves (and for the country), they will unanimously vote NAY on every steaming turd Obama, Pelosi, and Reid cook up.

Even Democrat-in-all-but-name John McCain said "There will be no cooperation for the rest of this year."

As opposed to all of last year and this year so far? Bring it on.

[opebo]

I'm very cynical about the intelligence of most Americans, so I would probably side with Marokai on this.

Well of course the members of the parasitic class outnumber those of the productive class. That's why we need to work so hard to defend this constitutional republic from the tyranny of the lazy flunk-out majority.

Lets see.. the 'parasitic class' works 60 hours a week at 2-3 low paid jobs in order to survive on a bare subsistence in a ghetto or a trailer park... the 'productive class' lives in Palm Beach in sybaritic luxury without ever working, collecting returns on capital. 

All I can say is your abject power-worship is even more disgusting than your pathetic ignorance.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Massachusetts (for all the system's problems) has a system that a strong majority of people like.

Depends on who you ask, really. Both of these from Fall of 2009:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The final poll:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Massachusetts likes the reform, but we know we can't afford it and it isn't working. Frankly, Massachusetts voters are idiots.

[opebo]

No, actually the parasitic class failed homeschool and sits around doing absolutely nothing all day leeching off of the taxpayers.

Precisely how does a poor 'leech off of the taxpayers'?  What programs are there for him?  What amounts does he receive each month?

[TheGreatOne]

The question now is whether Democratic supporters are willing to give up a moderate legislative loss in exchange for majorities in the House and Senate.  They can win elections if they force the Republicans to make a difficult decision on a piece of legislation that supports their ideology. 

Here’s the plan.  Create a bill that reduces taxes on most Americans and cuts wasteful spending on social security, Medicare, or the military.  It’s that easy.  This will cause Republicans to either fight against some of their ideological principles, or support this bill, which will give the Democrats credibility as being bipartisan.  Either way, the Republicans look stupid and their campaign message is significantly weaker in November.     

Forget controversial issues like gay rights, abortion and immigration reform.  You can get what you want in 3 years from now.  Politics is about small losses and massive wins. 

[Vepres]

It's funny how Democratic hacks are so sure that the people will overwhelmingly support health care and the Democrats, while other hacks are so sure that November will be a landslide for the Republicans.

History typically shows that is the case for the first claim. The second is a baseless hope.

False equivalency must be fun.

Actually, you have things reversed.

Prove it.

I've studied history. In school.

In almost every case concerning big healthcare changes, people turn around to support them. People bitched about Medicare, some called it the end of freedom as we know it, socialism, etc etc. It's now hugely popular. Massachusetts (for all the system's problems) has a system that a strong majority of people like. Medicare in Canada had a rocky and scary start, with massive doctor strikes and other stumbling blocks. Now everyone in Canada benefits from it and massively favor it over the system we use.

Already, public opinion changes every so slightly more and more in the positive column just a couple days after the bill's passage. In a month's time, people won't even know what they were freaked out about. In a year, two, three, most people wouldn't even entertain the thought of reversing the changes.

There are going to be major budgetary issues with the Medicaid expansion, and we have to hope future congresses have balls and are committed to keeping the reform sustainable.