What Should the GOP Do To Appeal To Minorities?

[Derek]

Again, I restate, simply reach out to the communities during campaigns and while in office. Republicans don't seem to care about their votes (or at least come off that way), not even for purely political purposes.

Reach out to Spanish-speaking media, black media, make sure all campaign literature and speeches, etc. have Spanish translations, speak in front of the NAACP, etc. Even if what a Republican says may anger them (such as welfare hurting the black family), every election a few blacks will trickle over to the Republicans (thinking, "Hey, he may be right").

If the Republicans were able to win just 25% of the black vote, think of how many razor-thin Democratic Senate and House victories would have become Republican victories.

If the GOP had 25% of the black vote, I don't think you'd have more than 100 democrats in the house or more than 40 in the senate. I'm not sure we'd have another democrat in the white house for 25 years either. Taking 15 points from the black community would completely change how the democrats campaigned at the federal level.

[CJK]

The sad fact is that blacks and hispanics, being poorer and paying little income tax on average, are going to vote for the candidate that gives them the most handouts. Republicans would never be able to offer more handouts than the Democrats. Republicans would have to completely alter their traditional ideology to do that. Asians are different, but there are too few of them to matter and they are concentrated in blue states like California anyway.

Here's the real question we should be asking: What should Republicans do to boost their share of the white vote to sufficiently offset the increase in minorities?

[Derek]

The sad fact is that blacks and hispanics, being poorer and paying little income tax on average, are going to vote for the candidate that gives them the most handouts. Republicans would never be able to offer more handouts than the Democrats. Republicans would have to completely alter their traditional ideology to do that. Asians are different, but there are too few of them to matter and they are concentrated in blue states like California anyway.

Here's the real question we should be asking: What should Republicans do to boost their share of the white vote to sufficiently offset the increase in minorities?

That is a good idea. Whoever runs in 2012 could portray Obama as an elitist who is out of touch with the common man. He's one of them and not one of us. That will send a message that no one talks about but is in the back of everyone's mind. By one of them I actually mean he's a Washington insider who extends the tentacles of Washington into the rural areas of the south and midwest, but the phrase can be taken either way. Being a called a racist will only fall on ears within the factions who are already voting for Obama.

[milhouse24]

The sad fact is that blacks and hispanics, being poorer and paying little income tax on average, are going to vote for the candidate that gives them the most handouts. Republicans would never be able to offer more handouts than the Democrats. Republicans would have to completely alter their traditional ideology to do that. Asians are different, but there are too few of them to matter and they are concentrated in blue states like California anyway.

Here's the real question we should be asking: What should Republicans do to boost their share of the white vote to sufficiently offset the increase in minorities?

I'm pretty sure the GOP has close to 100% of the white male vote.  The only demographics worth fighting for are white women and hispanics.  That is why McCain picked Palin, because he wanted to win White Women voters, but Palin was perceived largely as inexperienced and unintelligent,and not ready for VP or president.  Any other female Senator or Governor can win more women voters.  Meg Whitman could easily win California and become president in 8 years.

[Derek]

The sad fact is that blacks and hispanics, being poorer and paying little income tax on average, are going to vote for the candidate that gives them the most handouts. Republicans would never be able to offer more handouts than the Democrats. Republicans would have to completely alter their traditional ideology to do that. Asians are different, but there are too few of them to matter and they are concentrated in blue states like California anyway.

Here's the real question we should be asking: What should Republicans do to boost their share of the white vote to sufficiently offset the increase in minorities?

I'm pretty sure the GOP has close to 100% of the white male vote.  The only demographics worth fighting for are white women and hispanics.  That is why McCain picked Palin, because he wanted to win White Women voters, but Palin was perceived largely as inexperienced and unintelligent,and not ready for VP or president.  Any other female Senator or Governor can win more women voters.  Meg Whitman could easily win California and become president in 8 years.

Actually McCain only had the white male vote by about 10 points. He was in the mid 50's.

[Progressive]

The sad fact is that blacks and hispanics, being poorer and paying little income tax on average, are going to vote for the candidate that gives them the most handouts. Republicans would never be able to offer more handouts than the Democrats. Republicans would have to completely alter their traditional ideology to do that. Asians are different, but there are too few of them to matter and they are concentrated in blue states like California anyway.

Here's the real question we should be asking: What should Republicans do to boost their share of the white vote to sufficiently offset the increase in minorities?

I'm pretty sure the GOP has close to 100% of the white male vote.  The only demographics worth fighting for are white women and hispanics.  That is why McCain picked Palin, because he wanted to win White Women voters, but Palin was perceived largely as inexperienced and unintelligent,and not ready for VP or president.  Any other female Senator or Governor can win more women voters.  Meg Whitman could easily win California and become president in 8 years.

Lol are you kidding me? 100% of the white male vote?

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Yeah, that's a ridiculous claim. McCain won the white male vote only by about 57-41.

If whites voted as a bloc the way blacks do, they'd decide every election.

[milhouse24]

The sad fact is that blacks and hispanics, being poorer and paying little income tax on average, are going to vote for the candidate that gives them the most handouts. Republicans would never be able to offer more handouts than the Democrats. Republicans would have to completely alter their traditional ideology to do that. Asians are different, but there are too few of them to matter and they are concentrated in blue states like California anyway.

Here's the real question we should be asking: What should Republicans do to boost their share of the white vote to sufficiently offset the increase in minorities?

I'm pretty sure the GOP has close to 100% of the white male vote.  The only demographics worth fighting for are white women and hispanics.  That is why McCain picked Palin, because he wanted to win White Women voters, but Palin was perceived largely as inexperienced and unintelligent,and not ready for VP or president.  Any other female Senator or Governor can win more women voters.  Meg Whitman could easily win California and become president in 8 years.

Lol are you kidding me? 100% of the white male vote?

The GOP usually get over 60% of the white male vote, I think Bush was in the mid 60% and especially wealthy white males.  So I suppose the GOP can appeal more to poor minorities and poor whites.  But I don't really think the GOP needs to pander to Blacks specifically.  They need to focus on the issues.  As I said before, I think Black leaders are more interested in staying with the Democrats and changing Democratic policies.  Its sort of like a northern pro-choicer staying with the GOP.  the political parties try to act as a Big Tent and keep their voters.  The GOP christian conservatives can reach out to Catholic voters and HIspanic voters. 

[milhouse24]

Yeah, that's a ridiculous claim. McCain won the white male vote only by about 57-41.

If whites voted as a bloc the way blacks do, they'd decide every election.

I really don't understand why you think the "Whites" would all vote for one candidate such as the GOP candidate.  So, 60% of the country should just vote for the GOP nominee because that person is also white?  Blacks voted for Obama because they hoped he would have an ear for their concerns and issues, not just because he was Black.  Its not about race or racism, its about trusting that person to listen to your voice.  So its ludicrous to think that Whites should not vote for Obama because he is Black or that he won't listen to Surburban white voters. 

In the past elections, there has been 2 white guys, and the White voters didn't have to vote as a bloc!  They actually could decide between 2 candidates not just based on skin color!

[Bo]

Yeah, that's a ridiculous claim. McCain won the white male vote only by about 57-41.

If whites voted as a bloc the way blacks do, they'd decide every election.

I really don't understand why you think the "Whites" would all vote for one candidate such as the GOP candidate.  So, 60% of the country should just vote for the GOP nominee because that person is also white?  Blacks voted for Obama because they hoped he would have an ear for their concerns and issues, not just because he was Black.  Its not about race or racism, its about trusting that person to listen to your voice.  So its ludicrous to think that Whites should not vote for Obama because he is Black or that he won't listen to Surburban white voters. 

In the past elections, there has been 2 white guys, and the White voters didn't have to vote as a bloc!  They actually could decide between 2 candidates not just based on skin color!

He talked about whites voting in a bloc because you said McCain won nearly 100% of the white male vote, which was completely inaccurate. And the GOP would fail if it tries to appeal to poor minorities, since those groups feel that the GOP doesn't care about them and have felt that way for decades. Thus, it is too late for the GOP to try changing their views. And a lot of blacks did vote for Obama (especially in the primaries) because he was black. If Obama was white, Hillary would have won 70+% of the black vote in the Democratic primaries and less blacks voters would have came out to vote in the general election.

[Ameriplan]

Yeah, that's a ridiculous claim. McCain won the white male vote only by about 57-41.

If whites voted as a bloc the way blacks do, they'd decide every election.

I really don't understand why you think the "Whites" would all vote for one candidate such as the GOP candidate.  So, 60% of the country should just vote for the GOP nominee because that person is also white?  Blacks voted for Obama because they hoped he would have an ear for their concerns and issues, not just because he was Black.  Its not about race or racism, its about trusting that person to listen to your voice.  So its ludicrous to think that Whites should not vote for Obama because he is Black or that he won't listen to Surburban white voters. 

In the past elections, there has been 2 white guys, and the White voters didn't have to vote as a bloc!  They actually could decide between 2 candidates not just based on skin color!

He talked about whites voting in a bloc because you said McCain won nearly 100% of the white male vote, which was completely inaccurate. And the GOP would fail if it tries to appeal to poor minorities, since those groups feel that the GOP doesn't care about them and have felt that way for decades. Thus, it is too late for the GOP to try changing their views. And a lot of blacks did vote for Obama (especially in the primaries) because he was black. If Obama was white, Hillary would have won 70+% of the black vote in the Democratic primaries and less blacks voters would have came out to vote in the general election.

Exactly right. you can't tell me some 94% of the black voting public voted for Obama because of his legislative record.

[Sbane]

Yeah, that's a ridiculous claim. McCain won the white male vote only by about 57-41.

If whites voted as a bloc the way blacks do, they'd decide every election.

I really don't understand why you think the "Whites" would all vote for one candidate such as the GOP candidate.  So, 60% of the country should just vote for the GOP nominee because that person is also white?  Blacks voted for Obama because they hoped he would have an ear for their concerns and issues, not just because he was Black.  Its not about race or racism, its about trusting that person to listen to your voice.  So its ludicrous to think that Whites should not vote for Obama because he is Black or that he won't listen to Surburban white voters. 

In the past elections, there has been 2 white guys, and the White voters didn't have to vote as a bloc!  They actually could decide between 2 candidates not just based on skin color!

He talked about whites voting in a bloc because you said McCain won nearly 100% of the white male vote, which was completely inaccurate. And the GOP would fail if it tries to appeal to poor minorities, since those groups feel that the GOP doesn't care about them and have felt that way for decades. Thus, it is too late for the GOP to try changing their views. And a lot of blacks did vote for Obama (especially in the primaries) because he was black. If Obama was white, Hillary would have won 70+% of the black vote in the Democratic primaries and less blacks voters would have came out to vote in the general election.

Exactly right. you can't tell me some 94% of the black voting public voted for Obama because of his legislative record.

So why did about 90% of Blacks vote for Kerry and Gore?

[Bo]

Yeah, that's a ridiculous claim. McCain won the white male vote only by about 57-41.

If whites voted as a bloc the way blacks do, they'd decide every election.

I really don't understand why you think the "Whites" would all vote for one candidate such as the GOP candidate.  So, 60% of the country should just vote for the GOP nominee because that person is also white?  Blacks voted for Obama because they hoped he would have an ear for their concerns and issues, not just because he was Black.  Its not about race or racism, its about trusting that person to listen to your voice.  So its ludicrous to think that Whites should not vote for Obama because he is Black or that he won't listen to Surburban white voters. 

In the past elections, there has been 2 white guys, and the White voters didn't have to vote as a bloc!  They actually could decide between 2 candidates not just based on skin color!

He talked about whites voting in a bloc because you said McCain won nearly 100% of the white male vote, which was completely inaccurate. And the GOP would fail if it tries to appeal to poor minorities, since those groups feel that the GOP doesn't care about them and have felt that way for decades. Thus, it is too late for the GOP to try changing their views. And a lot of blacks did vote for Obama (especially in the primaries) because he was black. If Obama was white, Hillary would have won 70+% of the black vote in the Democratic primaries and less blacks voters would have came out to vote in the general election.

Exactly right. you can't tell me some 94% of the black voting public voted for Obama because of his legislative record.

So why did about 90% of Blacks vote for Kerry and Gore?

I was talking more about the primaries and Obama's race probably did give him several extra % of the black vote in the general election.

[Sbane]

Yeah, that's a ridiculous claim. McCain won the white male vote only by about 57-41.

If whites voted as a bloc the way blacks do, they'd decide every election.

I really don't understand why you think the "Whites" would all vote for one candidate such as the GOP candidate.  So, 60% of the country should just vote for the GOP nominee because that person is also white?  Blacks voted for Obama because they hoped he would have an ear for their concerns and issues, not just because he was Black.  Its not about race or racism, its about trusting that person to listen to your voice.  So its ludicrous to think that Whites should not vote for Obama because he is Black or that he won't listen to Surburban white voters. 

In the past elections, there has been 2 white guys, and the White voters didn't have to vote as a bloc!  They actually could decide between 2 candidates not just based on skin color!

He talked about whites voting in a bloc because you said McCain won nearly 100% of the white male vote, which was completely inaccurate. And the GOP would fail if it tries to appeal to poor minorities, since those groups feel that the GOP doesn't care about them and have felt that way for decades. Thus, it is too late for the GOP to try changing their views. And a lot of blacks did vote for Obama (especially in the primaries) because he was black. If Obama was white, Hillary would have won 70+% of the black vote in the Democratic primaries and less blacks voters would have came out to vote in the general election.

Exactly right. you can't tell me some 94% of the black voting public voted for Obama because of his legislative record.

So why did about 90% of Blacks vote for Kerry and Gore?

I was talking more about the primaries and Obama's race probably did give him several extra % of the black vote in the general election.

Yeah they voted for Obama in the primary because they wanted a black president. Considering there hasn't been one in the over 200 year history of America, I don't think they were in the wrong.

[milhouse24]

Yeah, that's a ridiculous claim. McCain won the white male vote only by about 57-41.

If whites voted as a bloc the way blacks do, they'd decide every election.

I really don't understand why you think the "Whites" would all vote for one candidate such as the GOP candidate.  So, 60% of the country should just vote for the GOP nominee because that person is also white?  Blacks voted for Obama because they hoped he would have an ear for their concerns and issues, not just because he was Black.  Its not about race or racism, its about trusting that person to listen to your voice.  So its ludicrous to think that Whites should not vote for Obama because he is Black or that he won't listen to Surburban white voters. 

In the past elections, there has been 2 white guys, and the White voters didn't have to vote as a bloc!  They actually could decide between 2 candidates not just based on skin color!

He talked about whites voting in a bloc because you said McCain won nearly 100% of the white male vote, which was completely inaccurate. And the GOP would fail if it tries to appeal to poor minorities, since those groups feel that the GOP doesn't care about them and have felt that way for decades. Thus, it is too late for the GOP to try changing their views. And a lot of blacks did vote for Obama (especially in the primaries) because he was black. If Obama was white, Hillary would have won 70+% of the black vote in the Democratic primaries and less blacks voters would have came out to vote in the general election.

My Point is that it is not just Race.  Its also about TRUST.  Black voters trusted Obama to listen to their voice and rising Black prosperity.  By your logic, Blacks should vote GOP because Mike Steele is Black and only because he is Black. 

My point is trust is not just Color/Race, but also past actions by the Democrats, past Democratic politicians like Clinton, and its Big tent philosophy. 

The GOP may try to appeal to Blacks, but can Black leaders trust that their voices will be heard at the RNC, or will they be widely ignored by RNC leaders? 

[milhouse24]

Yeah, that's a ridiculous claim. McCain won the white male vote only by about 57-41.

If whites voted as a bloc the way blacks do, they'd decide every election.

I really don't understand why you think the "Whites" would all vote for one candidate such as the GOP candidate.  So, 60% of the country should just vote for the GOP nominee because that person is also white?  Blacks voted for Obama because they hoped he would have an ear for their concerns and issues, not just because he was Black.  Its not about race or racism, its about trusting that person to listen to your voice.  So its ludicrous to think that Whites should not vote for Obama because he is Black or that he won't listen to Surburban white voters. 

In the past elections, there has been 2 white guys, and the White voters didn't have to vote as a bloc!  They actually could decide between 2 candidates not just based on skin color!

He talked about whites voting in a bloc because you said McCain won nearly 100% of the white male vote, which was completely inaccurate. And the GOP would fail if it tries to appeal to poor minorities, since those groups feel that the GOP doesn't care about them and have felt that way for decades. Thus, it is too late for the GOP to try changing their views. And a lot of blacks did vote for Obama (especially in the primaries) because he was black. If Obama was white, Hillary would have won 70+% of the black vote in the Democratic primaries and less blacks voters would have came out to vote in the general election.

Exactly right. you can't tell me some 94% of the black voting public voted for Obama because of his legislative record.

Its about trust that he would listen to their concerns.  Whites voted for Obama because they trusted him to end the Iraq invasion. 

Blacks are not migrating to the GOP just because Mike Steel is now chairman.

[CJK]

Yeah, that's a ridiculous claim. McCain won the white male vote only by about 57-41.

If whites voted as a bloc the way blacks do, they'd decide every election.

I really don't understand why you think the "Whites" would all vote for one candidate such as the GOP candidate.  So, 60% of the country should just vote for the GOP nominee because that person is also white?  Blacks voted for Obama because they hoped he would have an ear for their concerns and issues, not just because he was Black.  Its not about race or racism, its about trusting that person to listen to your voice.  So its ludicrous to think that Whites should not vote for Obama because he is Black or that he won't listen to Surburban white voters. 

In the past elections, there has been 2 white guys, and the White voters didn't have to vote as a bloc!  They actually could decide between 2 candidates not just based on skin color!

He talked about whites voting in a bloc because you said McCain won nearly 100% of the white male vote, which was completely inaccurate. And the GOP would fail if it tries to appeal to poor minorities, since those groups feel that the GOP doesn't care about them and have felt that way for decades. Thus, it is too late for the GOP to try changing their views. And a lot of blacks did vote for Obama (especially in the primaries) because he was black. If Obama was white, Hillary would have won 70+% of the black vote in the Democratic primaries and less blacks voters would have came out to vote in the general election.

Exactly right. you can't tell me some 94% of the black voting public voted for Obama because of his legislative record.

So why did about 90% of Blacks vote for Kerry and Gore?

I was talking more about the primaries and Obama's race probably did give him several extra % of the black vote in the general election.

Yeah they voted for Obama in the primary because they wanted a black president. Considering there hasn't been one in the over 200 year history of America, I don't think they were in the wrong.

So racism is okay when blacks do it?

[Derek]

Yeah, that's a ridiculous claim. McCain won the white male vote only by about 57-41.

If whites voted as a bloc the way blacks do, they'd decide every election.

I really don't understand why you think the "Whites" would all vote for one candidate such as the GOP candidate.  So, 60% of the country should just vote for the GOP nominee because that person is also white?  Blacks voted for Obama because they hoped he would have an ear for their concerns and issues, not just because he was Black.  Its not about race or racism, its about trusting that person to listen to your voice.  So its ludicrous to think that Whites should not vote for Obama because he is Black or that he won't listen to Surburban white voters. 

In the past elections, there has been 2 white guys, and the White voters didn't have to vote as a bloc!  They actually could decide between 2 candidates not just based on skin color!

He talked about whites voting in a bloc because you said McCain won nearly 100% of the white male vote, which was completely inaccurate. And the GOP would fail if it tries to appeal to poor minorities, since those groups feel that the GOP doesn't care about them and have felt that way for decades. Thus, it is too late for the GOP to try changing their views. And a lot of blacks did vote for Obama (especially in the primaries) because he was black. If Obama was white, Hillary would have won 70+% of the black vote in the Democratic primaries and less blacks voters would have came out to vote in the general election.

Exactly right. you can't tell me some 94% of the black voting public voted for Obama because of his legislative record.

So why did about 90% of Blacks vote for Kerry and Gore?

I was talking more about the primaries and Obama's race probably did give him several extra % of the black vote in the general election.

Yeah they voted for Obama in the primary because they wanted a black president. Considering there hasn't been one in the over 200 year history of America, I don't think they were in the wrong.

So racism is okay when blacks do it?

Yep just ask the Justice Department and look at how they handled the new black panther party from the last election.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The sad fact is that blacks and hispanics, being poorer and paying little income tax on average, are going to vote for the candidate that gives them the most handouts. Republicans would never be able to offer more handouts than the Democrats. Republicans would have to completely alter their traditional ideology to do that. Asians are different, but there are too few of them to matter and they are concentrated in blue states like California anyway.

Here's the real question we should be asking: What should Republicans do to boost their share of the white vote to sufficiently offset the increase in minorities?

I'm pretty sure the GOP has close to 100% of the white male vote.  The only demographics worth fighting for are white women and hispanics.  That is why McCain picked Palin, because he wanted to win White Women voters, but Palin was perceived largely as inexperienced and unintelligent,and not ready for VP or president.  Any other female Senator or Governor can win more women voters.  Meg Whitman could easily win California and become president in 8 years.

About 64% is usually tops nationwide among whites. In 2008, winning blacks was impossible. Blacks wanted and in some ways needed to make history by electing Obama. However I still think its possible for the GOP to win more then single digits. Bush did get 16% in Ohio in 2004. Atleast in swing states if not nationwide, the GOP should be able to reach 25%. I mentioned some of the ways this can be achieved in our last encounter in this thread, though the circumstances were less then desirable.

I don't think Whitman will easily win California. She could potentially in different circumstances but not againt Jerry Brown with and unpopular GOP incumbent. If she wins it will be excruciatingly close.

Yeah, that's a ridiculous claim. McCain won the white male vote only by about 57-41.

If whites voted as a bloc the way blacks do, they'd decide every election.

I really don't understand why you think the "Whites" would all vote for one candidate such as the GOP candidate.  So, 60% of the country should just vote for the GOP nominee because that person is also white?  Blacks voted for Obama because they hoped he would have an ear for their concerns and issues, not just because he was Black.  Its not about race or racism, its about trusting that person to listen to your voice.  So its ludicrous to think that Whites should not vote for Obama because he is Black or that he won't listen to Surburban white voters. 

In the past elections, there has been 2 white guys, and the White voters didn't have to vote as a bloc!  They actually could decide between 2 candidates not just based on skin color!

He talked about whites voting in a bloc because you said McCain won nearly 100% of the white male vote, which was completely inaccurate. And the GOP would fail if it tries to appeal to poor minorities, since those groups feel that the GOP doesn't care about them and have felt that way for decades. Thus, it is too late for the GOP to try changing their views. And a lot of blacks did vote for Obama (especially in the primaries) because he was black. If Obama was white, Hillary would have won 70+% of the black vote in the Democratic primaries and less blacks voters would have came out to vote in the general election.

My Point is that it is not just Race.  Its also about TRUST.  Black voters trusted Obama to listen to their voice and rising Black prosperity.  By your logic, Blacks should vote GOP because Mike Steele is Black and only because he is Black. 

My point is trust is not just Color/Race, but also past actions by the Democrats, past Democratic politicians like Clinton, and its Big tent philosophy. 

The GOP may try to appeal to Blacks, but can Black leaders trust that their voices will be heard at the RNC, or will they be widely ignored by RNC leaders? 

What makes it so difficult is that because 1) Blacks are poorer then whites on average, less educated etc etc and 2) they vote and support Democrats so overwhelmingly it is easy to argue successfully that Republicans are anti-black because they oppose many of the economic policies that benefit the poor. Also the Republicans are pretty stupid as well in there approach when it comes to forming the narative and arguements for there ideas and issues.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I'm pretty sure the GOP has close to 100% of the white male vote. 

Based upon people I know, 0% would be a bit of a closer estimate.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Republicans have shown that they can win without any minorities, but that era is fading. Simply supporting affirmative action isn't going to cut it unfortunately. Call for "open borders" with guards who let people easily and amnesty. Also, alot of my conservative counterparts don't realize this but amnesty allows more foreigners to be tracked as opposed to now where the government doesn't know exactly who is who within the illegal community.

I have explained this 100 times. You don't concede, you fight. The pressure groups who control minority votes will never support Republicans. You have to break their grip on those votes. You have to prove to them that they are self serving and not looking out for their best interests.

I won't go into detail on the Amnesty thing (I just did recently). The people pushing amnesty know damn well that future illegal immigration will be encouraged and they will demand yet another amnesty. These groups have been hindering enforcement operations and demaning amnesty since the when the ink had barely dried on the Reagan Amnesty. You are naive or unaware of the history if you think that we won't be having this same arguement 15 years from now. It never changes, it has been their game since the 60's. They won't machine voters, not good policy. I'll be damned if I sign of a bill that only benefits these groups and big agribusiness. It will do nothing for the immigrant who came here legally, the next wave of illegals who will be exploited, the victim of ID theft, and most certainly not the country at-large. My view is the "compassionate" view not the open borders one.

Oh and I please don't hit me with that "you can't round them up crap" because  I already went through why that is not necessary two days ago. Go dig for it.

Its not going to be easy, its going to take courage and effort. Simply changing one position is not going to do it. Bush promised everything under the son and got to 44% of Hispanics, 1% more among African Americans (I will note we are still in the mid 30's among Hispanics about 10% better then Dole's performance in 1996) but it was unsustainable and the promises impossible. A different approach is needed.

I'm against promising handouts. That does seem to be the mentality that alot of minorities have fallen under. What are your disagreements with affirmative action though? I'm against the way that the University of Michigan did it but other than that I'm a supporter.

I am mixed on Affirmative Action. I think most of it should be shifted from just race based to race+poverty. The arguement is that minorities have been hampered economically through because of discrimnation so it would make sense to just focus on poor minorities instead of all minorities.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I would say that Obama is a strong positive role model for Black kids.  Mike Steele is a role model.  While I would agree that handouts have made it easier to game the system, there is difficult economic mobility amongst Blacks and I'm not sure if its economic racism or poor education.  Its not enought to just have small business owners, you need a strong Black population in the white collar workforce to encourage growth in the Black middle-class.  Additionally, race has divided and segregated the country since 1965 and its time for communities, towns, and cities to mix races and end racial segregation.  Countries like Brazil have successfully mixed former slaves into the population, we can do it in America as well.

Well on a personal level, Obama is a great role model, otherwise he wouldn't have been elected. But I was sticking mainly to non-political celebrities. If every black kid looked up to Obama the guy that struggled with drugs but overcame them and managed to acheive success in life, the community as whole would be a lot better off.

Its not about whether it was enough, but just refuting your point the Republicans didn't do a thing to help blacks at all.

To achieve a larger black middle class, you have to go into the inner cities and bust up the educational establishment some. And most Democrats are unwilling to face down the teachers unions which is why even Obama's reforms are DOA most likely. And even if the educational system is top notch you will hit the brick wall of family issues, drugs, poverty, and crime which distract kids from learning for obvious reasons. A strong family unit with parents that push education and value it can be immensly beneficial to the kid struggling to stay focused on education.

You can't force people to move where they don't want to.  And you will just increase racial tensions trying to do it.

[Sbane]

Yeah, that's a ridiculous claim. McCain won the white male vote only by about 57-41.

If whites voted as a bloc the way blacks do, they'd decide every election.

I really don't understand why you think the "Whites" would all vote for one candidate such as the GOP candidate.  So, 60% of the country should just vote for the GOP nominee because that person is also white?  Blacks voted for Obama because they hoped he would have an ear for their concerns and issues, not just because he was Black.  Its not about race or racism, its about trusting that person to listen to your voice.  So its ludicrous to think that Whites should not vote for Obama because he is Black or that he won't listen to Surburban white voters. 

In the past elections, there has been 2 white guys, and the White voters didn't have to vote as a bloc!  They actually could decide between 2 candidates not just based on skin color!

He talked about whites voting in a bloc because you said McCain won nearly 100% of the white male vote, which was completely inaccurate. And the GOP would fail if it tries to appeal to poor minorities, since those groups feel that the GOP doesn't care about them and have felt that way for decades. Thus, it is too late for the GOP to try changing their views. And a lot of blacks did vote for Obama (especially in the primaries) because he was black. If Obama was white, Hillary would have won 70+% of the black vote in the Democratic primaries and less blacks voters would have came out to vote in the general election.

Exactly right. you can't tell me some 94% of the black voting public voted for Obama because of his legislative record.

So why did about 90% of Blacks vote for Kerry and Gore?

I was talking more about the primaries and Obama's race probably did give him several extra % of the black vote in the general election.

Yeah they voted for Obama in the primary because they wanted a black president. Considering there hasn't been one in the over 200 year history of America, I don't think they were in the wrong.

So racism is okay when blacks do it?

How the hell is that racism?

[Bo]

Republicans have shown that they can win without any minorities, but that era is fading. Simply supporting affirmative action isn't going to cut it unfortunately. Call for "open borders" with guards who let people easily and amnesty. Also, alot of my conservative counterparts don't realize this but amnesty allows more foreigners to be tracked as opposed to now where the government doesn't know exactly who is who within the illegal community.

I have explained this 100 times. You don't concede, you fight. The pressure groups who control minority votes will never support Republicans. You have to break their grip on those votes. You have to prove to them that they are self serving and not looking out for their best interests.

I won't go into detail on the Amnesty thing (I just did recently). The people pushing amnesty know damn well that future illegal immigration will be encouraged and they will demand yet another amnesty. These groups have been hindering enforcement operations and demaning amnesty since the when the ink had barely dried on the Reagan Amnesty. You are naive or unaware of the history if you think that we won't be having this same arguement 15 years from now. It never changes, it has been their game since the 60's. They won't machine voters, not good policy. I'll be damned if I sign of a bill that only benefits these groups and big agribusiness. It will do nothing for the immigrant who came here legally, the next wave of illegals who will be exploited, the victim of ID theft, and most certainly not the country at-large. My view is the "compassionate" view not the open borders one.

Oh and I please don't hit me with that "you can't round them up crap" because  I already went through why that is not necessary two days ago. Go dig for it.

Its not going to be easy, its going to take courage and effort. Simply changing one position is not going to do it. Bush promised everything under the son and got to 44% of Hispanics, 1% more among African Americans (I will note we are still in the mid 30's among Hispanics about 10% better then Dole's performance in 1996) but it was unsustainable and the promises impossible. A different approach is needed.

I'm against promising handouts. That does seem to be the mentality that alot of minorities have fallen under. What are your disagreements with affirmative action though? I'm against the way that the University of Michigan did it but other than that I'm a supporter.

I am mixed on Affirmative Action. I think most of it should be shifted from just race based to race+poverty. The arguement is that minorities have been hampered economically through because of discrimnation so it would make sense to just focus on poor minorities instead of all minorities.

How about making AA just based on financial status? That way, wealthy minorities can be excluded and poor white people can be included.

[milhouse24]

Yeah, that's a ridiculous claim. McCain won the white male vote only by about 57-41.

If whites voted as a bloc the way blacks do, they'd decide every election.

I really don't understand why you think the "Whites" would all vote for one candidate such as the GOP candidate.  So, 60% of the country should just vote for the GOP nominee because that person is also white?  Blacks voted for Obama because they hoped he would have an ear for their concerns and issues, not just because he was Black.  Its not about race or racism, its about trusting that person to listen to your voice.  So its ludicrous to think that Whites should not vote for Obama because he is Black or that he won't listen to Surburban white voters. 

In the past elections, there has been 2 white guys, and the White voters didn't have to vote as a bloc!  They actually could decide between 2 candidates not just based on skin color!

He talked about whites voting in a bloc because you said McCain won nearly 100% of the white male vote, which was completely inaccurate. And the GOP would fail if it tries to appeal to poor minorities, since those groups feel that the GOP doesn't care about them and have felt that way for decades. Thus, it is too late for the GOP to try changing their views. And a lot of blacks did vote for Obama (especially in the primaries) because he was black. If Obama was white, Hillary would have won 70+% of the black vote in the Democratic primaries and less blacks voters would have came out to vote in the general election.

Exactly right. you can't tell me some 94% of the black voting public voted for Obama because of his legislative record.

So why did about 90% of Blacks vote for Kerry and Gore?

I was talking more about the primaries and Obama's race probably did give him several extra % of the black vote in the general election.

Yeah they voted for Obama in the primary because they wanted a black president. Considering there hasn't been one in the over 200 year history of America, I don't think they were in the wrong.

So racism is okay when blacks do it?

I think you are being over-simplistic when you say Blacks are racist, meaning they are anti-White.  By your logic, Blacks are racist because they will never vote for McCain or any other white presidential candidate?  Now, a Black person may vote for Obama because he feels that Obama better represents his values and situation and can carry out actions that better effect his life.  I'm sure far more whites voted against Obama because of his skin color, than whites who voted for Obama because of guilt over his skin color.  Blacks may not have trusted McCain on issues that concerned them or think that McCain had concerns for Black citizens or the Black rising middle class. 

Do you think its better for Citizens to vote primarily on Wealth?  If I am Wealthy and make a certain tax bracket, then I should automatically vote Republican?  If I am a Christian conservative, then I have to vote Republican? 

There are many ways to stereotype voters based on Demographics.  The winner will always be the one who appeals to and appears to listen to the most voters.