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Scam of God
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« on: March 30, 2010, 05:58:56 am »
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Activist Mike Vanderboegh urged his fellow extremists to break Democrats' windows. But he gets "Marxist" welfare
By Joe Conason
AP/Monroe County Democratic Committee
A glass door in Rochester, N.Y., was struck by a brick on March 20 with a note attached reading "Exremism in defense of liberty Is no vice."

Mike Vanderboegh is the far-right activist from Alabama who gained sudden notoriety when he posted a message this week urging his fellow extremists to smash the windows of Democratic politicians to protest healthcare reform -- a wingnut Kristallnacht. In a revealing profile in today's Washington Post, Vanderboegh explains that throwing rocks was merely meant to warn of an impending "civil war" against Washington's infringements on poor honest folk like him.

"So, if you wish to send a message that Pelosi and her party cannot fail to hear, break their windows," Vanderboegh wrote on a blog called Sipsey Street Irregulars. "Break them NOW. Break them and run to break again. Break them under cover of night. Break them in broad daylight. Break them and await arrest in willful, principled civil disobedience. Break them with rocks. Break them with slingshots. Break them with baseball bats. But BREAK THEM."

He assured the Post that untold numbers of alienated Americans "are not only willing to resist this law to the very end of their lives, but are armed and are capable of making such resistance possible and perhaps even initiating a civil war." So far there is no evidence that Vanderboegh followed his own advice, which might have entailed a personal risk for him, after all.

As a longtime "militia" organizer and Minuteman border patroller, he has advocated violence for many years without consequence. In a 2005 report by the Southern Poverty Law Center, Vanderboegh was identified as a hard-line nativist, obsessed with the notion of instigating a civil war in the United States0.

Back in the mid-1990s, he wrote a document titled "Strategy and Tactics for a Militia Civil War" in which he discussed the utility of snipers using "violence carefully targeted and clearly defensive: war criminals, secret policemen, rats ..." SPLC director Mark Potok set Vanderboegh in the current context of "Patriot" extremism on NPR's "Fresh Air" yesterday.

There is often a darkly comical aspect to these sinister fringe figures. While Vanderboegh claims to be a militant "libertarian," a tribune of the oppressed white middle class, and a student of Friedrich von Hayek, he appears to be an ordinary welfare case. Claiming to be too ill for gainful employment, he apparently spends most of his time stirring up violence, with a nice federal subsidy.

According to the Post, he lives off his wife, who works at a forklift company -- and also gets a monthly disability check from our "Marxist" federal government.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/joe_conason/2010/03/26/vanderboegh/index.html

I highlighted what I thought were the interesting bits.

What angers me, above all, is the disservice this fellow does in the name of libertarianism (as is typical of all follows of von Hayek and his fellow inferiors of the Austrian School). Rather than rise above the morass, this particular untermenschen is more than willing to sink into it, and, along the way, ally himself with Confederate revanchists, Christians, and other such numskull inferiors. His willingness to initiate force against his betters indicates to me that he is an anti-populist populist, and nothing more.
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« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2010, 10:39:18 am »
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A microcosm of the South and Plains states.
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« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2010, 10:53:47 am »
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Anyone who has ever attended a Tea Party event should not be eligible for social security, medicare, or unemployment benefits. They should also have to pay a reasonable fee to use public roads.
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At the very least, this turn of events seems to validate my prediction that Americans are ready and willing to fully embrace fascism.
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Vepres
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« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2010, 03:08:28 pm »
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Anyone who has ever attended a Tea Party event should not be eligible for social security, medicare, or unemployment benefits. They should also have to pay a reasonable fee to use public roads.

Yeah, 'cause we've heard so many tea party activists advocate for the complete abolition of the welfare state and public roads Roll Eyes
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Alright, if Republicans gain less than 75 seats, I'll prominently display my failure in my signature.
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« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2010, 03:09:48 pm »
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Anyone who has ever attended a Tea Party event should not be eligible for social security, medicare, or unemployment benefits. They should also have to pay a reasonable fee to use public roads.

Yeah, 'cause we've heard so many tea party activists advocate for the complete abolition of the welfare state and public roads Roll Eyes

Why do you even defend them, Vepres? The Tea Partiers are scum, white trash, populistic, slave-moraled scum who, if their God did exist, would deem to sweep them away with fire. They are not our kind.
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New worlds to gain
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And be alive
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- Jefferson Airplane, "Crown of Creation"

The right to die in Iraq was a right not previously possessed by Americans for twelve long years.  Bush rectified that.
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« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2010, 03:12:01 pm »
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Why do you even defend them, Vepres? The Tea Partiers are scum, white trash, populistic, slave-moraled scum who, if their God did exist, would deem to sweep them away with fire. They are not our kind.

Yet a majority of Americans believe the average member of the Tea Party movement has a better understanding of the issues facing America today than the average member of Congress.   Fancy that.
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« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2010, 03:12:59 pm »
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Why do you even defend them, Vepres? The Tea Partiers are scum, white trash, populistic, slave-moraled scum who, if their God did exist, would deem to sweep them away with fire. They are not our kind.

Yet a majority of Americans believe the average member of the Tea Party movement has a better understanding of the issues facing America today than the average member of Congress.   Fancy that.

A majority of Americans are also downright subhuman.
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Life is change --
How it differs from the rocks
I've seen their ways
Too often for my liking

New worlds to gain
My life is to survive
And be alive
For you


- Jefferson Airplane, "Crown of Creation"

The right to die in Iraq was a right not previously possessed by Americans for twelve long years.  Bush rectified that.
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« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2010, 03:14:35 pm »
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Yet a majority of Americans believe the average member of the Tea Party movement has a better understanding of the issues facing America today than the average member of Congress.   Fancy that.

They probably also believe the average married lesbian or illegal immigrant has a better understand of the issues facing America today than a Congressman, big whoops.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 03:16:30 pm by brittain33 »Logged
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« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2010, 03:15:11 pm »
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Why do you even defend them, Vepres? The Tea Partiers are scum, white trash, populistic, slave-moraled scum who, if their God did exist, would deem to sweep them away with fire. They are not our kind.

Yet a majority of Americans believe the average member of the Tea Party movement has a better understanding of the issues facing America today than the average member of Congress.   Fancy that.

A majority of Americans are also downright subhuman.

To be fair to them, they were made so by their owners.
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« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2010, 04:47:51 pm »
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Vepres
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« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2010, 05:06:06 pm »
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Anyone who has ever attended a Tea Party event should not be eligible for social security, medicare, or unemployment benefits. They should also have to pay a reasonable fee to use public roads.

Yeah, 'cause we've heard so many tea party activists advocate for the complete abolition of the welfare state and public roads Roll Eyes

Why do you even defend them, Vepres? The Tea Partiers are scum, white trash, populistic, slave-moraled scum who, if their God did exist, would deem to sweep them away with fire. They are not our kind.

You know, you can disagree with people without totally dismissing them as irrelevant and unintelligent.

You can point out flaws of the positions of those you disagree with without being arrogant (though few on this forum seem to understand that concept).
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LOL, Failure

Alright, if Republicans gain less than 75 seats, I'll prominently display my failure in my signature.
Scam of God
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« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2010, 05:08:16 pm »
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Anyone who has ever attended a Tea Party event should not be eligible for social security, medicare, or unemployment benefits. They should also have to pay a reasonable fee to use public roads.

Yeah, 'cause we've heard so many tea party activists advocate for the complete abolition of the welfare state and public roads Roll Eyes

Why do you even defend them, Vepres? The Tea Partiers are scum, white trash, populistic, slave-moraled scum who, if their God did exist, would deem to sweep them away with fire. They are not our kind.

You know, you can disagree with people without totally dismissing them as irrelevant and unintelligent.

You can point out flaws of the positions of those you disagree with without being arrogant (though few on this forum seem to understand that concept).

To the contrary: the style is not only as important as the substance; the style is the substance. The old dictum that "the personal is the political" is resolved in me. It is impossible to understand my position without it.
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Life is change --
How it differs from the rocks
I've seen their ways
Too often for my liking

New worlds to gain
My life is to survive
And be alive
For you


- Jefferson Airplane, "Crown of Creation"

The right to die in Iraq was a right not previously possessed by Americans for twelve long years.  Bush rectified that.
opebo
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« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2010, 05:10:10 pm »
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Why do you even defend them, Vepres? The Tea Partiers are scum, white trash, populistic, slave-moraled scum who, if their God did exist, would deem to sweep them away with fire. They are not our kind.

You know, you can disagree with people without totally dismissing them as irrelevant and unintelligent.

You can point out flaws of the positions of those you disagree with without being arrogant (though few on this forum seem to understand that concept).

Well, they are unintelligent, and scum and so forth, but they most certainly aren't irrelevant.  They're a major force in american politics.  But I think you need to remember, Vepres, that these people cannot be reasoned with any more than the Nazis could be.  To not see them for what they are is potentially dangerous.
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« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2010, 05:13:56 pm »
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Opebo and Einzige, I must point out that you are both committing the sweeping generalization fallacy far more than is possible reasonable.
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LOL, Failure

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« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2010, 05:16:25 pm »
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Opebo and Einzige, I must point out that you are both committing the sweeping generalization fallacy far more than is possible reasonable.

Not that it matters - neither you nor we can stop them.
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« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2010, 05:16:44 pm »
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Opebo and Einzige, I must point out that you are both committing the sweeping generalization fallacy far more than is possible reasonable.

All social interactions rely on sweeping generalizations. Every time I choose what I want to eat for the day, I begin by deciding what places I don't like to eat at, despite the fact I've not had everything on the menu. Your "tolerance" is liberal, though you yourself claim not to be. I will judge the cretins as they present themselves to be judged, and I find them wanting.
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Life is change --
How it differs from the rocks
I've seen their ways
Too often for my liking

New worlds to gain
My life is to survive
And be alive
For you


- Jefferson Airplane, "Crown of Creation"

The right to die in Iraq was a right not previously possessed by Americans for twelve long years.  Bush rectified that.
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« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2010, 05:19:46 pm »
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Opebo and Einzige, I must point out that you are both committing the sweeping generalization fallacy far more than is possible reasonable.

They're hypocrites, simply put. They demand the evil government get out of their lives on healthcare and taxes, yet open with welcome arms lobbying for Government bans on Homosexual Marriage, Abortion, and not to mention are estatic about sending troops to foreign battlefields. They are selfish, stupid, ignorant, and quite frankly below nearly everybody. They don't favor an end to the Welfare State (as you can see by my image posted above), they DO favor regulations against gays, abortion, drugs, and starting wars.
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Vepres
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« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2010, 05:31:13 pm »
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Opebo and Einzige, I must point out that you are both committing the sweeping generalization fallacy far more than is possible reasonable.

All social interactions rely on sweeping generalizations. Every time I choose what I want to eat for the day, I begin by deciding what places I don't like to eat at, despite the fact I've not had everything on the menu. Your "tolerance" is liberal, though you yourself claim not to be. I will judge the cretins as they present themselves to be judged, and I find them wanting.

Yes, but you're basing this on anecdotes and the behavior of a few loonies. While the tea party largely has no central leadership, public figures of the movement have never condoned these acts, and thus I give them the benefit of the doubt. Sure, some of the tea partiers are morons, but there are libertarians who are ignorant morons as well, same with liberals.

Opebo and Einzige, I must point out that you are both committing the sweeping generalization fallacy far more than is possible reasonable.

They're hypocrites, simply put. They demand the evil government get out of their lives on healthcare and taxes, yet open with welcome arms lobbying for Government bans on Homosexual Marriage, Abortion, and not to mention are estatic about sending troops to foreign battlefields. They are selfish, stupid, ignorant, and quite frankly below nearly everybody. They don't favor an end to the Welfare State (as you can see by my image posted above), they DO favor regulations against gays, abortion, drugs, and starting wars.

And you base this on?

Yes, you have anecdotal evidence to support you, but think of it this way, would the media cover a rally of reasonable people. For the most part, no. Thus, they only cover the tea party rallies with morons attending or where stupid comments were made.
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LOL, Failure

Alright, if Republicans gain less than 75 seats, I'll prominently display my failure in my signature.
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« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2010, 05:34:38 pm »
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Opebo and Einzige, I must point out that you are both committing the sweeping generalization fallacy far more than is possible reasonable.

All social interactions rely on sweeping generalizations. Every time I choose what I want to eat for the day, I begin by deciding what places I don't like to eat at, despite the fact I've not had everything on the menu. Your "tolerance" is liberal, though you yourself claim not to be. I will judge the cretins as they present themselves to be judged, and I find them wanting.

Yes, but you're basing this on anecdotes and the behavior of a few loonies. While the tea party largely has no central leadership, public figures of the movement have never condoned these acts, and thus I give them the benefit of the doubt. Sure, some of the tea partiers are morons, but there are libertarians who are ignorant morons as well, same with liberals.

A challenge, then: demonstrate to me one protester who is consistent in his views and arrives at them by way of either empirical reason or philosophical deduction, as opposed to heavy-handed emotionalism, and I may suspend judgment. But I have no reason whatsoever as present to regard them at any more than they actually are - unenlightened, uneducated, and inferior rubes who have all the annoying qualities I find so grating in masses of people.
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Life is change --
How it differs from the rocks
I've seen their ways
Too often for my liking

New worlds to gain
My life is to survive
And be alive
For you


- Jefferson Airplane, "Crown of Creation"

The right to die in Iraq was a right not previously possessed by Americans for twelve long years.  Bush rectified that.
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« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2010, 05:36:15 pm »
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People like this make me sick.  I should find out what county he lives in and report him to the social worker for fraud.  They should investigate his ass and cut him off.  In the letter, it should remind him that the free market is his for the taking and that the local McDonalds is looking for helpers.
What's worse... his wife.  What the hell is wrong with her?  She needs to dump his ass out on the street.
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Scam of God
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« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2010, 05:39:15 pm »
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Moreover, I find it highly unlikely that the so-called 'leadership' of the Tea Baggers is wholly innocent of the affairs of individual groupings. There is a concept called 'plausible deniability', and, I suspect, they take high advantage of it.
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Life is change --
How it differs from the rocks
I've seen their ways
Too often for my liking

New worlds to gain
My life is to survive
And be alive
For you


- Jefferson Airplane, "Crown of Creation"

The right to die in Iraq was a right not previously possessed by Americans for twelve long years.  Bush rectified that.
Vepres
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« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2010, 05:42:07 pm »
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Opebo and Einzige, I must point out that you are both committing the sweeping generalization fallacy far more than is possible reasonable.

All social interactions rely on sweeping generalizations. Every time I choose what I want to eat for the day, I begin by deciding what places I don't like to eat at, despite the fact I've not had everything on the menu. Your "tolerance" is liberal, though you yourself claim not to be. I will judge the cretins as they present themselves to be judged, and I find them wanting.

Yes, but you're basing this on anecdotes and the behavior of a few loonies. While the tea party largely has no central leadership, public figures of the movement have never condoned these acts, and thus I give them the benefit of the doubt. Sure, some of the tea partiers are morons, but there are libertarians who are ignorant morons as well, same with liberals.

A challenge, then: demonstrate to me one protester who is consistent in his views and arrives at them by way of either empirical reason or philosophical deduction, as opposed to heavy-handed emotionalism, and I may suspend judgment. But I have no reason whatsoever as present to regard them at any more than they actually are - unenlightened, uneducated, and inferior rubes who have all the annoying qualities I find so grating in masses of people.

You take this to the extreme. Really, this is akin to saying that all libertarians are white-supremist anarcho-capitalists who buy into conspiracy theories.

I take issue with the degree you take these fallacies, not that you're using them.
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LOL, Failure

Alright, if Republicans gain less than 75 seats, I'll prominently display my failure in my signature.
Scam of God
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« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2010, 05:43:27 pm »
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Opebo and Einzige, I must point out that you are both committing the sweeping generalization fallacy far more than is possible reasonable.

All social interactions rely on sweeping generalizations. Every time I choose what I want to eat for the day, I begin by deciding what places I don't like to eat at, despite the fact I've not had everything on the menu. Your "tolerance" is liberal, though you yourself claim not to be. I will judge the cretins as they present themselves to be judged, and I find them wanting.

Yes, but you're basing this on anecdotes and the behavior of a few loonies. While the tea party largely has no central leadership, public figures of the movement have never condoned these acts, and thus I give them the benefit of the doubt. Sure, some of the tea partiers are morons, but there are libertarians who are ignorant morons as well, same with liberals.

A challenge, then: demonstrate to me one protester who is consistent in his views and arrives at them by way of either empirical reason or philosophical deduction, as opposed to heavy-handed emotionalism, and I may suspend judgment. But I have no reason whatsoever as present to regard them at any more than they actually are - unenlightened, uneducated, and inferior rubes who have all the annoying qualities I find so grating in masses of people.

You take this to the extreme. Really, this is akin to saying that all libertarians are white-supremist anarcho-capitalists who buy into conspiracy theories.

I'm lambasting them for being libertarians; I'm lambasting them for being conservatives who adopt, where convenient, the language and phraseology of libertarianism and apply it to decidedly un-and-anti-libertarian ends. In this I have opposed, and will continue to oppose, them.
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Life is change --
How it differs from the rocks
I've seen their ways
Too often for my liking

New worlds to gain
My life is to survive
And be alive
For you


- Jefferson Airplane, "Crown of Creation"

The right to die in Iraq was a right not previously possessed by Americans for twelve long years.  Bush rectified that.
President Mitt
Giovanni
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« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2010, 05:43:44 pm »
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Opebo and Einzige, I must point out that you are both committing the sweeping generalization fallacy far more than is possible reasonable.

All social interactions rely on sweeping generalizations. Every time I choose what I want to eat for the day, I begin by deciding what places I don't like to eat at, despite the fact I've not had everything on the menu. Your "tolerance" is liberal, though you yourself claim not to be. I will judge the cretins as they present themselves to be judged, and I find them wanting.

Yes, but you're basing this on anecdotes and the behavior of a few loonies. While the tea party largely has no central leadership, public figures of the movement have never condoned these acts, and thus I give them the benefit of the doubt. Sure, some of the tea partiers are morons, but there are libertarians who are ignorant morons as well, same with liberals.

A challenge, then: demonstrate to me one protester who is consistent in his views and arrives at them by way of either empirical reason or philosophical deduction, as opposed to heavy-handed emotionalism, and I may suspend judgment. But I have no reason whatsoever as present to regard them at any more than they actually are - unenlightened, uneducated, and inferior rubes who have all the annoying qualities I find so grating in masses of people.

You take this to the extreme. Really, this is akin to saying that all libertarians are white-supremist anarcho-capitalists who buy into conspiracy theories.

As a Libertarian (?), I can't see how you defend them.
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« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2010, 05:48:26 pm »
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They're hypocrites, simply put. They demand the evil government get out of their lives on healthcare and taxes, yet open with welcome arms lobbying for Government bans on Homosexual Marriage, Abortion, and not to mention are estatic about sending troops to foreign battlefields. They are selfish, stupid, ignorant, and quite frankly below nearly everybody. They don't favor an end to the Welfare State (as you can see by my image posted above), they DO favor regulations against gays, abortion, drugs, and starting wars.

Actually, it is worth noting that hypocrisy is no problem politically.   If there are enough of you - and there are most certainly enough hate filled white religious racists out there - you can most definitely have your cake and eat it too.  As a matter of fact they have had it so for a long time.

There is no requirement in politics that one be consistent or 'make sense', merely that one wins - gets power.
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