Not just Explosives but Nuclear Waste and Black Fever Looted

[khirkhib]

Not only is there no exit strategy there was no entrance strategy either.  Pathetic planning.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/10/27/eyewitness_to_a_failure_in_iraq/

Eyewitness to a failure in Iraq
By Peter W. Galbraith  |  October 27, 2004

IN 2003 I went to tell Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz what I had seen in Baghdad in the days following Saddam Hussein's overthrow. For nearly an hour, I described the catastrophic aftermath of the invasion -- the unchecked looting of every public institution in Baghdad, the devastation of Iraq's cultural heritage, the anger of ordinary Iraqis who couldn't understand why the world's only superpower was letting this happen.

[bold]
I also described two particularly disturbing incidents -- one I had witnessed and the other I had heard about. On April 16, 2003, a mob attacked and looted the Iraqi equivalent of the Centers for Disease Control, taking live HIV and black fever virus among other potentially lethal materials. US troops were stationed across the street but did not intervene because they didn't know the building was important.

When he found out, the young American lieutenant was devastated. He shook his head and said, "I hope I am not responsible for Armageddon." About the same time, looters entered the warehouses at Iraq's sprawling nuclear facilities at Tuwaitha on Baghdad's outskirts. They took barrels of yellowcake (raw uranium), apparently dumping the uranium and using the barrels to hold water. US troops were at Tuwaitha but did not interfere.

There was nothing secret about the Disease Center or the Tuwaitha warehouses. Inspectors had repeatedly visited the center looking for evidence of a biological weapons program. The Tuwaitha warehouses included materials from Iraq's nuclear program, which had been dismantled after the 1991 Gulf War. The United Nations had sealed the materials, and they remained untouched until the US troops arrived. [/bold]

The looting that I observed was spontaneous. Quite likely the looters had no idea they were stealing deadly biological agents or radioactive materials or that they were putting themselves in danger. As I pointed out to Wolfowitz, as long as these sites remained unprotected, their deadly materials could end up not with ill-educated slum dwellers but with those who knew exactly what they were doing.

This is apparently what happened. According to an International Atomic Energy Agency report issued earlier this month, there was "widespread and apparently systematic dismantlement that has taken place at sites previously relevant to Iraq's nuclear program." This includes nearly 380 tons of high explosives suitable for detonating nuclear weapons or killing American troops. Some of the looting continued for many months -- possibly into 2004. Using heavy machinery, organized gangs took apart, according to the IAEA, "entire buildings that housed high-precision equipment."

This equipment could be anywhere. But one good bet is Iran, which has had allies and agents in Iraq since shortly after the US-led forces arrived.

This was a preventable disaster. Iraq's nuclear weapons-related materials were stored in only a few locations, and these were known before the war began. As even L. Paul Bremer III, the US administrator in Iraq, now admits, the United States had far too few troops to secure the country following the fall of Saddam Hussein. But even with the troops we had, the United States could have protected the known nuclear sites. It appears that troops did not receive relevant intelligence about Iraq's WMD facilities, nor was there any plan to secure them. Even after my briefing, the Pentagon leaders did nothing to safeguard Iraq's nuclear sites.

I supported President Bush's decision to overthrow Saddam Hussein. At Wolfowitz's request, I helped advance the case for war, drawing on my work in previous years in documenting Saddam's atrocities, including the use of chemical weapons on the Kurds. In spite of the chaos that followed the war, I am sure that Iraq is better off without Saddam Hussein.

It is my own country that is worse off -- 1,100 dead soldiers, billions added to the deficit, and the enmity of much of the world. Someone out there has nuclear bomb-making equipment, and they may not be well disposed toward the United States. Much of this could have been avoided with a competent postwar strategy. But without having planned or provided enough troops, we would be a lot safer if we hadn't gone to war.

Peter W. Galbraith, a former US ambassador to Croatia, is a fellow at the Center For Arms Control and Non-Proliferation. In the 1980s, he documented Iraqi atrocities against the Kurds for the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

[J. J.]

First of all, "yellowcake" isn't radioactive waste, but a uranium ore.  "Black fever," is a transmitted bacteria or viral disease.  AIDS is a virus.  None of these are weapons!

Second, I am I suppost to feel sorry because people broke into buildings and stole something harmful to them?  Boo Hoo!  Boo Hoo!  Woe is me!

If I break into my local drycleaners and steal cleaning fluid with carbon tetracloride in it, and get sick, is it the government's fault?  Of course not!

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

First of all, "yellowcake" isn't radioactive waste, but a uranium ore.  "Black fever," is a transmitted bacteria or viral disease.  AIDS is a virus.  None of these are weapons!

Second, I am I suppost to feel sorry because people broke into buildings and stole something harmful to them?  Boo Hoo!  Boo Hoo!  Woe is me!

If I break into my local drycleaners and steal cleaning fluid with carbon tetracloride in it, and get sick, is it the government's fault?  Of course not!

They could make a dirty bomb. I thought you Republicans cared about these things.

[J. J.]

First of all, "yellowcake" isn't radioactive waste, but a uranium ore.  "Black fever," is a transmitted bacteria or viral disease.  AIDS is a virus.  None of these are weapons!

Second, I am I suppost to feel sorry because people broke into buildings and stole something harmful to them?  Boo Hoo!  Boo Hoo!  Woe is me!

If I break into my local drycleaners and steal cleaning fluid with carbon tetracloride in it, and get sick, is it the government's fault?  Of course not!

They could make a dirty bomb. I thought you Republicans cared about these things.

Not too easy with yellowcake; it hasn't been completely processed.  It generally has to be processed a lot more.  See: http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0710/p07s02-woiq.htm yellowcake

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

First of all, "yellowcake" isn't radioactive waste, but a uranium ore.  "Black fever," is a transmitted bacteria or viral disease.  AIDS is a virus.  None of these are weapons!

Second, I am I suppost to feel sorry because people broke into buildings and stole something harmful to them?  Boo Hoo!  Boo Hoo!  Woe is me!

If I break into my local drycleaners and steal cleaning fluid with carbon tetracloride in it, and get sick, is it the government's fault?  Of course not!

They could make a dirty bomb. I thought you Republicans cared about these things.

Not too easy with yellowcake; it hasn't been completely processed.  It generally has to be processed a lot more.  See: http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0710/p07s02-woiq.htm yellowcake

It's easy to make a dirty bomb

[J. J.]

It's easy to make a dirty bomb

Not one that actually contaminates things.  According to the story, which either you didn't read or didn't comprehend, people had yellowcake in their homes and were using the barrels for washing.  There was one possible case of radiation poisoning; the victum was using the barrel for washing.

There is a lot of radioactivity out there naturally, this isn't that much more.  It probably was more dangerous to loot a dry cleaner.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

It's easy to make a dirty bomb

Not one that actually contaminates things.  According to the story, which either you didn't read or didn't comprehend, people had yellowcake in their homes and were using the barrels for washing.  There was one possible case of radiation poisoning; the victum was using the barrel for washing.

There is a lot of radioactivity out there naturally, this isn't that much more.  It probably was more dangerous to loot a dry cleaner.

How to make a dirty bomb:

1. Get some radioative stuff.
2. Blow it up.

[J. J.]

How to make a dirty bomb:

1. Get some radioative stuff.
2. Blow it up.

Only you would possibly assume that.  Let me try to dumb it down for you.

When you up something that is basically granular, that means like small grains like sand or sugar, the particles, the little pieces go all over the place.  There are less thick then they are when all together.

All of these particles are radioactive; can you say radioactive?   Good, I knew you could.  They scatter when the bomb explodes.  Because each piece is not very radioactive it is hard to detect them with detection equipment.  It's very hard to tell that these radioactive materials are there because there are so few of them all together in one place.

A "dirty bomb" is made for two purposes:

1.  To scare people by thinking that radiation has affected the area.

2.  To have enough radiation to really affect the area.

Because there is so little radiation, it doesn't affect the area.  Because there is so little radiation in one place, it is very hard to detect it, so it is very hard to know that the bomb was a "dirty bomb."

The article, which talks about the effects of the yellowcake, may help you understand it a bit better.

[khirkhib]

I'm not sure what your point is.  Invade Pakistan or something?  Idiotic.

I'm not saying the US should have invaded Pakistan.

But invading Iraq didn't make sense as part of a strategy to prevent terrorists from getting nuclear weapons.

It wasn't just about nukes, it was about all WMD.  Iraq was sitting on 500 tons of uranium that could turned into a dirty bomb.  There's your WMD.

John Ford seemed to think that you can make a dirty bomb from it.  Don't patronize people JJ.  Yellow cake, the type of yellow cake that we were told that Niger was selling to Iraq.  Isn't that part of the justification for going to war.  If it was good enough to be a reason to bring us into Iraq. If it was good enough to mention in the State of the Union address don't you think that it was important to protect so that some terrostist group didn't use it to make a dirty bomb or bring it to another country to refine.

This whole story is fishy.  I think you guys are just taking the spin because that is what it seems Bush and Co are doing.  There stories are changing and don't add up.  Still think it is to close to the election to make a difference.

[J. J.]

John Ford seemed to think that you can make a dirty bomb from it.  Don't patronize people JJ.  Yellow cake, the type of yellow cake that we were told that Niger was selling to Iraq.  Isn't that part of the justification for going to war.  If it was good enough to be a reason to bring us into Iraq. If it was good enough to mention in the State of the Union address don't you think that it was important to protect so that some terrostist group didn't use it to make a dirty bomb or bring it to another country to refine.

This whole story is fishy.  I think you guys are just taking the spin because that is what it seems Bush and Co are doing.  There stories are changing and don't add up.  Still think it is to close to the election to make a difference.

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Except, if you remember, the yellowcake line should have been deleted.  Ah, that was one the mistakes that Bush did admit to. 

I'll agree that yellowcake can be refined, but you need a good technology to do it.  A terrorist basically would need a solid infrastructure, like Iraq, to get to the stage were it would be useful.

It is necessary to explain this to people.  Now either I can explain this to him, or I can just say to him, "You are an idiot."  I chose to explain it, in very simple terms.  With the story on yellowcake earlier this year, it should have been understandable.

[elcorazon]

khirkhib, he can't help but patronize, being a proud mensa member, he's just that much smarter than the rest of us.

[Engineer]

Radioactive uranium is a very small percentage (less than 2% if I remember my chemistry correctly) of yellow cake. Yellow cake is simply uranium ore that has had it's impurities (other minerals) removed.  It is so low in radioactivity that it is normally handed without any special protection, hence why they can store it in barrels without fear of radiation poisoning.  To bring it up to weapons grade (or even where it radioactively dangerous) you have to use gasification processes to change it into Uraninum Hexafluoride.  This is an eleaborate process.

It is in no way what a "dirty bomb" would be comprised of.  A "dirty bomb" would require spent nuclear fuel, enriched uranium or materials from an existing nuclear weapon.

[J. J.]

khirkhib, he can't help but patronize, being a proud mensa member, he's just that much smarter than the rest of us.

You know, I never said I was a member, though from your posts, you clearly are ineligible for membership.

[J. J.]

Here is site regarding yellow cake:

The radioactivity of this product is low because the decay products have been stripped away and it is in an unenriched form. The yellow cake is purified and converted to UF4 and then further fluorinated to uranium hexafluoride (UF6). Gaseous diffusion enrichment changes the uranium isotopic, but not the chemical, composition of the gas. The UF6 is hydrolyzed to uranyl oxyfluoride, which is precipitated with an ammonia solution to ammonium diuranate.

http://www.physics.isu.edu/radinf/du.htm

I do not criticize either elcorazon or jfern for being stupid.  I do criticize both of them for not having the wisdom, or common sense to check out the information prior to their posts.  As can be seen by Kerry's comments on the "missing" explosives, it is a characteristic that both share with the candidate they support.