Should there be an English Parliament?

[afleitch]

Without Scotland and Wales, the Conservatives have a majority of seats as well as  the most votes in England. Even in 2005, despite not having a majority of seats they had the most votes in England. Should England be granted it's own parliament?

Is England being given a government it didn't want because of the votes of Scotland and Wales? It used to be said that Tory governments lacked 'legitimacy' in Scotland and Wales in the past but this was of course prior to devolution for these countries.

As a Scotsman in strong favour of increased devolution for Scotland I am genuinely embarrased that Scottish MP's continue to vote on devolved matters that do not affect their constituents. I am also concerned that devolution has not adressed the needs of England. There should either be an English Parliament or regional parliaments or non English MP's should be constitutionally barred from voting on matters that are devolved.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If the answer is 'an English Parliament' then the question is either a silly one, or part of an idea to essentially break up the UK in all but name. As a lower level of government it really wouldn't work at all, and it makes no sense as part of a process of devolution.

[Franzl]

What would the House of Commons be for in this case? Doesn't seem like it'd serve much purpose any more.

[afleitch]

What would the House of Commons be for in this case? Doesn't seem like it'd serve much purpose any more.

My own preference is to bar Scottish/Welsh/NI MP's voting on matters that solely affect England. Something has to be done to address what is and is probably about to become a serious problem.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yes, if you give independence to Scotland, Wales and Ulster. No otherwise.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

The issues that are devoluted for Scotland, Wales, and NI, should be devoluted for England as well, but that doesn't necessary have to mean a English parliament.

[KuntaKinte]

On first sight, it would be just fair.

But of course, that would mean that the UK becomes a federal state. And England is much to big to be a part of a UK federal state, predominance would be worse then those of Prussia in the Kaiserreich or Weimar.
 
But splitting England into pieces? Except for Cornwall it seems unnatural and unhistoric.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

But splitting England into pieces? Except for Cornwall it seems unnatural and unhistoric.

It makes more sense (for all sorts of reasons) than might seem at first. Ignoring politics, economic structures and so on, there are massive cultural and linguistic differences between different parts of England. But there would be serious problems with boundaries; the official regions are pretty artificial with the exception of the North East.

[KuntaKinte]

It makes more sense (for all sorts of reasons) than might seem at first. Ignoring politics, economic structures and so on, there are massive cultural and linguistic differences between different parts of England.

No doubt about the diversity of England. For sure it's because my knowledge about this is somewhat limited, and because England has been centralized for so long, but looking on a map of England I don't see clear-cut regions as eye-catching as in Spain, Italy and, well, Germany of course.

But there would be serious problems with boundaries; the official regions are pretty artificial with the exception of the North East.

Yes, that's what I always thought about the administrative regions of England too.
I'm interested how a divided England would, roughly, look like if it were up to you.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

What would the House of Commons be for in this case? Doesn't seem like it'd serve much purpose any more.

My own preference is to bar Scottish/Welsh/NI MP's voting on matters that solely affect England. Something has to be done to address what is and is probably about to become a serious problem.

That's always been my idea.

[Tuck!]

Yes.

[k-onmmunist]

No, there should be regional assemblies with powers similar to those of the cantons in Switzerland. Based somewhat along the lines of the traditional counties.

[Bo]

Yes. If Wales and Scotland have one, England should as well.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

There should be both an English Parliament and a Cornish Stannary Parliament.

[Verily]

What would the House of Commons be for in this case? Doesn't seem like it'd serve much purpose any more.

It wouldn't be for anything. Devolution was botched, and really what needs to be done is a major reduction in the powers of the Scottish Parliament to be the equivalent of the Welsh Assembly (or perhaps even a further neutering of both) combined with the establishment of an English Parliament with that same level of power.

(Northern Ireland can go screw itself. Or at least develop a party system relevant to the rest of the country.)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Devolution was botched

Hardly. Devolution was (and is) a response to the increasing alienation of the people of Scotland and Wales from Whitehall, not part of a grand plan to create a Federal Britain.

[Torie]

I would like someone to make a cogent case why members of Parliament should vote on matters that exclusively affect a only other regions. Now we have Scottish MP's voting on matters that affect only England, while national  MP's cannot vote on matters that affect only Scotland (and sometimes Wales). It seems to me that Welsh and Scottish MP's should not vote on matters, where national MP's cannot vote on their matters due to devolution. That is only symmetry. That still leaves a lot for the national MP's to vote on that affects the nation as a whole. And why would Scottish/Welsh MP's want to vote on matters that affect only England? Why do they care? 

I really don't think this can stand the test of time. Assuming that is the case, is there a better fix than just having bifurcated voting?  Is it really necessary to have a separate English parliament? Isn't that overkill? What does it accomplish, and is it desirable to have another slug of politicians in the system?

[Хahar 🤔]

Yes, once the United Kingdom is dissolved.

[minionofmidas]

An English Parliament wouldn't work, for obvious reasons.

(A solution of removing voting rights for non-English MPs for England-only affairs could be worked out, though it would have to be an ugly compromise. And would inevitably involve fewer competences than you think at first - they'd have to be given a separate budget to play with, with anything affecting the UK Budget, which at current modes of doing business is virtually everything, remaining in joint responsibility.)
Obviously the constitutionally sound solution (besides independence) is several assemblies in England... the issue here is that outside Cornwall and the North East, they'd lack popular legitimacy and not many people would care to turnout vote for them.

Tory and LD attitude - both on this forum and in Government - almost looks like a ploy to annoy the Scots into making up their minds and leaving the UK, frankly - on the mistaken assumption that that would mean Labour out of Government forever.

[Cubby]

I understand Cornwall having a separate identity, but why is the northeast considered similarly distinct from the rest of England? The only thing I can think of is the Danelaw, and other regions from that era such as Mercia, nothing remotely modern or based on a distinct language like Cornwall used to have.

[minionofmidas]

"Why" is a good question, but they do have a much stronger regional identity, and it's probably the only part of England you'll ever hear calls for getting a regional assembly of their own from.

(Not sure it's really relevant here, but if you're looking for premodern justifications, I suggest you look up Durham's history. Because it did indeed have a special status throughout the middle ages.)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

"Why" is a good question, but they do have a much stronger regional identity, and it's probably the only part of England you'll ever hear calls for getting a regional assembly of their own from.

...and note that the main reason for the proposed regional assembly being voted down a while back was that it wouldn't have been powerful enough!

Serious demands for devolution in the North East go back to T. Dan Smith; in other words, they're almost as old as serious demands for devolution in Wales. And on a practical level... well, the old (pre-1974) Durham County Council didn't exactly view itself as being merely a unit of local administration. Even the current Durham UA has grander designs that most big cities...

[minionofmidas]

Serious demands for devolution in the North East go back to T. Dan Smith; in other words, they're almost as old as serious demands for devolution in Wales.

No.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Serious demands for devolution in the North East go back to T. Dan Smith; in other words, they're almost as old as serious demands for devolution in Wales.

No.

I've always viewed Cymru Fydd as being mostly a cultural phenomenon hiding itself (not very well; hence 'the Newport English' speech and the collapse of the movement) under political aims, but technically you're right, of course. I was thinking of the Parliament for Wales campaign in the 1950s.

[minionofmidas]

There was a curious gap of several decades in Welsh nationalism, at least as politically expressed. I've seen it hypothized that it may have something to do with Labour and the Liberals being dominant in different parts of Wales during that same period - as soon as Labour started representing the Northern constituencies too, the issue got back on the table.
So maybe we should just call Northeastern demands as old as the reawakening of Welsh ones.