Let the great boundary rejig commence
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  Let the great boundary rejig commence
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Author Topic: Let the great boundary rejig commence  (Read 185500 times)
ObserverIE
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« Reply #875 on: July 06, 2012, 11:31:25 AM »
« edited: July 06, 2012, 11:43:34 AM by ObserverIE »

Bringing this subject back to the topic at hand, the seat based on Carmarthen has been called Carmarthen (or Carmarthen Boroughs, or West Carmarthenshire) since Wales got Parliamentary representation - for any passing Americans on this thread that's twice as long as they've been a nation.

If we're going to start on the antiquity line, Welsh was in use in Caerfyrddin/Carmarthen long before the Anglo-Saxons learned the skill of long-distance sailing and left the bogs of northern Germany and Jutland for greener pastures. Get over it.
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ObserverIE
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« Reply #876 on: July 06, 2012, 11:36:16 AM »

Are you capable of seeing my point, or is it that all Tories are arrogant bigots and cretins and idiots in your eyes, or what?

"All"? No.

At least one? Definitely.
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doktorb
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« Reply #877 on: July 06, 2012, 06:01:59 PM »

My dear Stepney

The point you made comparing the changes with TH and Wales is very well made (and I genuinely mean that!). I am not going to pick holes, there's a fair amount of chin-stroke content you've provided Smiley
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #878 on: July 07, 2012, 04:04:40 AM »

There is no logic at all in demanding immigrants to Tower Hamlets learn English but the natives of Britain learn the language of the English immigrants.

Oh wait. A Tory in Stepney. Odds are he arrived long after the Bangladeshis. And suddenly it all made sense. (Also, the renaming would have to be Bethnal Green aur Bow to be at all parallel. Well "aur" is Hindi/Urdu, not Bangla... from some wikiing it *seems* Bangla would be "eor".)
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tomm_86
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« Reply #879 on: July 12, 2012, 08:55:22 AM »

'Isolated from realism'

Lol, I like this phrase. I'm going to use it put down people who are lack interest in the works of Gustave Courbet more often..
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #880 on: July 12, 2012, 09:49:56 AM »

Who was, of course, persecuted for his politics.
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Nathan
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« Reply #881 on: July 12, 2012, 11:47:38 PM »

Stepney, that rant was almost Daily Mail esque!  I ticked off the bingo card at least six old favourites....

My dear Doktorb, the fact that it is "almost Daily Mail esque", as George Orwell almost said, doesn't mean it's wrong. My own opinions on Welsh were expressed on another place a while back. The only arguments against seemed to be sentimentality; a misguided belief that other, divisive, cultures should be fostered and nurtured; and Welsh nationalism.

If you would like to dispute that the lingua franca of Wales south of, say, Aberystwyth and Montgomery, is English, and that most people south of that line barely speak Welsh, I'd like to hear the argument. If it's that we should artificially foster such a half-dead tongue as Welsh through the nomenclature of seats in the House of Commons, there is a case against it that is almost unanswerable.

Linguistic diversity, like many if not most types of diversity, is an intrinsic and positive good.
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Хahar 🤔
Xahar
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« Reply #882 on: July 13, 2012, 12:19:27 AM »

As a Bangladeshi, I feel like I should be offended by this.
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Hash
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« Reply #883 on: July 13, 2012, 05:25:37 AM »

I didn't read this thread, but I read stepney's rant, and as a Breton, I feel directly offended and naturally disgusted. But, of course, being French and all, I'm quite used to this kind of rhetoric in favour of homogeneity and centralism.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #884 on: July 13, 2012, 09:34:34 AM »

As a Bangladeshi, I feel like I should be offended by this.
So what is Bangla for "Bethnal Green and Bow"?
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Хahar 🤔
Xahar
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« Reply #885 on: July 13, 2012, 02:16:27 PM »

"Bethnal" appears to derive from "blithe hall", so...I would have to think about it.
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ObserverIE
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« Reply #886 on: July 13, 2012, 05:54:53 PM »

"Bethnal" appears to derive from "blithe hall", so...I would have to think about it.

Oh, I wouldn't bother with an etymological approach. It doesn't demonstrate the proper spirit of the British empire.

Just transliterate the English pronunciation (or something approximating it) into Bengali and then transliterate it back again. Better still, choose Bengali words which sound similar even if the meaning is completely different. There are plenty of Leamhchoills (elm wood) in Ireland which got "translated" to Longfield, or Fuarchoills (cold wood) which got transformed into Forkhill or Forthill.
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Хahar 🤔
Xahar
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« Reply #887 on: July 14, 2012, 02:07:48 AM »

My own last name has a dozen different spellings, and the one that I happen to have inherited isn't remotely intuitive. I certainly don't blame everyone for spelling it wrong. Thanks, Empire!
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doktorb
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« Reply #888 on: July 15, 2012, 04:47:37 AM »

The Bengali language Wikipedia tells me "বেথনাল গ্রিন" which Google Translate tells me is "Bēthanāla grina"


There is no Bengali language Wiki page for "Bow".
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doktorb
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« Reply #889 on: July 15, 2012, 04:49:27 AM »

Ditto "টাওয়ার হ্যামলেট্‌স" / "Ṭā'ōẏāra hyāmalēṭsa"
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doktorb
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« Reply #890 on: July 24, 2012, 02:40:24 PM »

The Boundary Commission for Scotland will reveal its revised recommendations in September
The ditto ditto for England will ditto ditto in October.
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Gary J
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« Reply #891 on: August 06, 2012, 04:31:26 PM »

There has been a major development in British politics today, even though it does not seem to have been generally recognised yet, which may prevent the current boundary reviews taking effect for the 2015 general election.

Lib Dem leader, Nick Clegg, has announced that House of Lords reform is being dropped due to backbench Conservative opposition (and Labour opportunism). He regards this as a breach of the coalition agreement and will ask Liberal Democrat MPs (including Ministers) to vote against the draft Orders in Council, which need to be passed to give legal effect to the boundary reviews when finalised by the boundary commissions.

Without Liberal Democrat support there will not be a Commons majority for the boundary changes, so the next general election will have to be contested for the existing 650 seats and not the re-drawn 600.

The boundary commissions will continue with the review. They are due to report by October 2013. The vote in Parliament is likely to be in late 2013 or early 2014.
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You kip if you want to...
change08
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« Reply #892 on: August 06, 2012, 04:34:24 PM »

60 pages of pointlessness now really.
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #893 on: August 06, 2012, 04:53:00 PM »

...and yet it feels so good!

Actually, they're not dead and buried until the vote on them is defeated.
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doktorb
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« Reply #894 on: August 06, 2012, 05:29:14 PM »

I'm fairly deflated about this

House of Lords reform can wait. The boundary changes can't. Clegg's stance is disappointing.
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Gary J
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« Reply #895 on: August 06, 2012, 05:31:32 PM »

The information I have seen, is that the Boundary Commission for England will ignore the political activity and will continue with the review.

The four national commissions are obliged to carry out reviews, as required by law. What the government and Parliament does with the eventual reports, is not a matter for the commissions.

The present political crisis may be compromised, before the parliamentary vote needs to be taken.  I agree the review is not definitively dead unless and until the changes are voted down.
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change08
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« Reply #896 on: August 06, 2012, 05:36:19 PM »

I'm fairly deflated about this

House of Lords reform can wait. The boundary changes can't. Clegg's stance is disappointing.

To be fair, the proposed boundaries were dire and the Lords plans were dire. Win-win. Although, I would've voted yes in any referendum on the Lords stuff.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #897 on: August 07, 2012, 06:09:11 AM »

Yes, technically this is just another review (even if it isn't) and won't just stop because those behind it just rolled two ones.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #898 on: August 07, 2012, 11:37:07 AM »

What would be necessary, and indeed sort of logical, but is not going to happen because that is not the way laws work, is for the Commissions to be given new, nonpartisan procedures which to use in order to start from scratch with.
Since the Commissions will be forced to bumble on incompetently, I fully expect Clegg to climb down and meekly enact the gerrymander in the end. Tongue
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YL
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« Reply #899 on: August 07, 2012, 12:06:05 PM »
« Edited: August 07, 2012, 12:10:49 PM by YL »

House of Lords reform can wait. The boundary changes can't. Clegg's stance is disappointing.

Um, why?

Having the Lib Dems, with their general belief in constitutional reform, in government ought to have been an opportunity to get somewhere with reforming the House of Lords.  That's now been lost, and I wouldn't have much confidence in another opportunity appearing.

On the other hand, the current boundaries, while they're a bit out of date and maintain the over-representation of Wales, aren't as bad as some Tories like to make out they are, and at least they don't contain horrors like the Commission's proposed Mersey Banks or Leeds NW & Nidderdale (etc. etc.; personally my view is that, unless the consultation produces a substantial improvement, the proposals should be voted down on their own merits).  I presume a review of some sort will be implemented within the next few years anyway.
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