Let the great boundary rejig commence

[doktorb]

Gordon - Wikipedia to the rescue!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_%28district%29

[minionofmidas]

Gordon - Wikipedia to the rescue!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_%28district%29

Well it does include most of that... who came up with that name in 1975 though, I wonder.

Although it does seem the Gordon name is strongly associated with the town of Huntly, which is possibly in my West Aberdeenshire but more probably in my Moray & Banff... hmmm...

[minionofmidas]

Argyll & Bute ca.76,490
Authority; Lomond ward of West Dunbartonshire
West Dunbartonshire & Bearsden ca.78,943
Remainder of authority, Bearsden North and South wards of East Dunbartonshire.
Would be much better if Leven could have been included in Argyll and Milngavie been included here, but tough luck.
East Dunbartonshire & Strathkelvin ca.73,701
Remainder of authority, East Lanarkshire ward of Strathkelvin
Cumbernauld & Airdrie ca.74,083+x
Kilsyth, Cumbernauld N, S, Abronhill etc, Airdrie N, C, and the most indispensable parts of Airdrie S (14,673*.994; Craigneuk, possibly Petersburn as well)
Coatbridge & Bellshill 68,560+x
Coatbridge N & Glenboig, Coatbridge S, W, Thorniwood, Bellshill, Mossend & Holytown, bulk of Airdrie S. For a neater-looking map, split off the rural parts of Coatbridge N & Glenboig (14,187*.994) instead.
Motherwell & Wishaw ca.76,418
Motherwell N, W, SE & Ravenscraig, Murdostoun, Wishaw, Fortissat

[doktorb]

Following my Salford feedback (aka "change it, mate, seriously"), I've come up with what I think is a workable alternative.

I'm away tonight, so tomorrow will give it my full attention.

[minionofmidas]

I drew Glasgow and surrounds some days ago but then the pc crashed on me. Trying to reconstitute what I drew... Rutherglen is ugly. Something had to give in South Lanarkshire.

Clydesdale 75,497*.993
Larkhall, Avondale & Stonehouse, four Clydesdale wards
Kyle Mercado 73,437*.993
three Kyle Mercado wards, Bothwell & Uddingston, Blantyre, Cambuslang East (which is more Flemington than Cambuslang, actually).
East Kilbride (& Rutherglen South) 80,911-x*.993
five East Kilbride wards, Cambuslang West, Rutherglen South (11,047) excluding the Spittal area.

Glasgow wards are as huge as Birmingham's... in a city not much more than half the size.

Glasgow West 64,478+x*.984
Partick West, Garscadden/Scotstounhill, Drumchapel/Anniesland, and part of Hillhead (19,271) - probably everything west of the Kelvin, though it's possible that a more westerly boundary needs to be found.
Glasgow North 58,466+x*.984
Maryhill/Kelvin, Canal, Springburn, remainder of Hillhead, and western part of East Centre (21,016) - would be good if that could be Milnbank, Dennistoun and Haghill, but I guess Carntyre will go here as well.
Glasgow East 67,155+x*.984
Shettleston, Baillieston, Northeast, remainder of East Centre (Riddrie, Cranhill)
Glasgow Central 70,379+x*.984
Anderston/City, Calton, Govan, Pollokshields, part of Southside Central - perhaps anything north of the railroad tracks (Gorbals, Hutchesontown etc)
Glasgow South (& Rutherglen North) 65,586+x*.984
Linn, Newlands/Auldburn, Langside, remainder of Southside Central; Rutherglen Central & North (which is times .994 rather than .984, actually), Spittal neighborhood of Rutherglen South
There is a good chance this constituency (or possibly the one north of it) is too large; depending on exact neighborhood populations options include removing the Carnwadric area of Newlands/Auldburn, or moving the boundary in Southside Central and putting some northeasterly portion of Calton ward (Parkhead and/or Camlachie) into Glasgow East and/or North, or even - if we need to lose just a handful of people - extending the railroad-as-boundary-line into Rutherglen (areas in Rutherglen north of the railroad tracks are mostly industrial/commercial/warehousing though).

East Renfrewshire 66,202+x
local authority; southern parts of Greater Pollok (22,415*.986) ward of Glasgow; south of the railroad again would be good but I guess I need a line further north - Barrhead Road possibly? Plus perhaps Carnwadric.
Paisley & Pollok ca.71,819+x
figure references the four Paisley wards and the Craigton ward of Glasgow. Plus the remainder of Greater Pollok.
But this makes for a very odd map randomly excluding parts of Paisley (in addition to being right around the upper edge of tolerance... as are its eastern neighbors). Some part of Paisley will almost certainly have to be excluded, but Gallowhill (part of Renfrew South & Gallowhill) is the wrong area. More likely Ferguslie Park (in Paisley North West). And the airport area, but it's not populated.
Mid Renfrewshire ca.74,848
Remainder of "Renfrewshire". Figure again based on excluding the four Paisley wards.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

That's because of the use of STV.

[minionofmidas]

That's because of the use of STV.

Nyes... the previous single-member wards were smaller of course, but the current wards elect three or four councillors, not much different from Birmingham. It's just that there are fewer councillors. If the council were larger the STV wards would be smaller.

[minionofmidas]

Inverclyde & Largs ca.72,453+x
Inverclyde council, N Ayrshire ward of North Coast & Cumbraes, western (Kilbirnie) part of Kilbirnie & Beith ward (11,212)
Cunninghame ca.72,778+x
North Ayrshire excluding North Coast & Cumbraes, Kilbirnie & Beith, and the inland (Dalry) part of Dalry & West Kilbride (9800)
Kilmarnock & Loudoun ca.63,180+x
Scottish constituency (six northerly wards of East Ayrshire), Beith, Dalry. Plus part of Ballochmyle ward (11,530) if necessary - and it probably is though it's close.
Ayr 70,525+x
Scottish constituency, Kyle ward, most of Maybole, North Carrick & Coylton ward (11,133) - presumably Maybole and points north.
Galloway, Carrick & Cumnock 77,409+x
Remainder of South and East Ayrshire (figure assumes inclusion of all of Ballochmyle), five westerly wards of Dumfries & Galloway
Dumfries (& East Galloway) ca.79,063
Dumfriesshire scottish constituency, Dumfries NW, Abbey wards

[Filuwaúrdjan]

That's because of the use of STV.

Nyes... the previous single-member wards were smaller of course, but the current wards elect three or four councillors, not much different from Birmingham. It's just that there are fewer councillors. If the council were larger the STV wards would be smaller.

Ah, but were it not for STV there wouldn't be so many councillors per ward.

[minionofmidas]

That's because of the use of STV.

Nyes... the previous single-member wards were smaller of course, but the current wards elect three or four councillors, not much different from Birmingham. It's just that there are fewer councillors. If the council were larger the STV wards would be smaller.

Ah, but were it not for STV there wouldn't be so many councillors per ward.

When did they introduce STV in Birmingham again, care to remind me?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

That's because of the use of STV.

Nyes... the previous single-member wards were smaller of course, but the current wards elect three or four councillors, not much different from Birmingham. It's just that there are fewer councillors. If the council were larger the STV wards would be smaller.

Ah, but were it not for STV there wouldn't be so many councillors per ward.

When did they introduce STV in Birmingham again, care to remind me?

They didn't? I meant that wards in Glasgow wouldn't be the size they are if it wasn't for STV. The size of the wards in Birmingham has nothing to do with the population of the city, so much as because of tradition.

[minionofmidas]

That's because of the use of STV.

Nyes... the previous single-member wards were smaller of course, but the current wards elect three or four councillors, not much different from Birmingham. It's just that there are fewer councillors. If the council were larger the STV wards would be smaller.

Ah, but were it not for STV there wouldn't be so many councillors per ward.

When did they introduce STV in Birmingham again, care to remind me?

They didn't? I meant that wards in Glasgow wouldn't be the size they are if it wasn't for STV. The size of the wards in Birmingham has nothing to do with the population of the city, so much as because of tradition.

Birmingham - about a million inhabitants, 120 councillors, 8300 inhabitants per councillor; 40 wards, 25,000 inhabitants per ward.
Glasgow - less than 600,000 inhabitants, 79 councillors, 7600 inhabitants per councillor; 21 wards, 28,000 inhabitants per ward.

The "cube root" rule would suggest about a hundred councillors for Birmingham and about 83 for Glasgow. The issue lies not (exclusively) with multi-member wards - let alone the way they're filled (STV rather than Just Plain Ridiculous) - but mostly with the fact that Glasgow City Council simply has too few members.

[minionofmidas]

Midlothian & Tweeddale ca.76,980
as it says on the tin (Tweeddale E and W wards)
Berwickshire, Roxburgh & Selkirk ca.74,079
Remainder of Scottish Borders

[minionofmidas]

Dundee, Perth & Kinross, Stirling, Fife, Clackmannan, Falkirk, West Lothian, Edinburgh is round about 15.26.

It may be possible to avoid crossing all these lines.

Dundee, Perth & Kinross, and my previously outlined Angus constituency (Dundee W & parts of Perth would have been a very ugly rurban seat anyways) for four small seats; Stirling/Clackmannan/Fife for five as originally envisaged, 8 very large seats in Edinburgh, East Lothian, West Lothian and Falkirk.
Edinburgh wards have a tendency to be snaky things that the Scottish Boundary commission largely ignored in its second, final attempt to draw Edinburgh, and I'll have to do the same thing. Which means the Edina map will have to be pure guesswork anyways.
Or maybe I will put a Falkirk ward in with Stirling and a Stirling ward in with Perthshire after all. Might be easier. That would actually allow to split it up further:

Five quite large Edinburgh and East Lothian seats. Three seats taking in West Lothian and almost all of Falkirk.

West Lothian 73,454+x
Includes part of Portobello/Craigmillar (17,095*.97) ward... hoping to make that Newcraighall, Brunstane. Or maybe go by thoroughfares as opposed to neighborhoods - east of Duddingston Park, south of Milton Road.
Edinburgh North East 73,350*.97-x+x
Leith, Leith Walk, Craigentinny/Duddingston, bulk of Portobello/Craigmillar (these are the pop. figures), eastern less-than-half of Forth ward (20,787*.97; Trinity + x) Or perhaps Trinity and the eastern edge of Inverleith ward.
Edinburgh West 79,442*.97-x+x
Almond, Drum Brae/Gayle, Inverleith (or possibly most of), Forth (western more-than-half), Corstorphine portion of Corstorphine/Murrayfield ward (17,241*.97), and northern bits of Pentland Hills (17,961*.97)
Edinburgh Central 57,775*.97+x
City Centre, Southside/Newington, Meadows/Morningside wards, Murrayfield, Gorgie end of Sighthill/Gorgie (23,494*.97), Fountainbridge/Viewforth end of Fountainbridge/Craiglockhart (16,854*.97)
Edinburgh South 41,954*.97+xxl
Liberton/Gilmerton and Colinton/Fairmilehead are the only wards wholly included, plus the bulk of Fountainbridge/Craiglockhart, Sighthill/Gorgie, and Pentland Hills.

I *think* this works. The boundary in Pentland Hills is defined by the very upper edge of pop. tolerance for this seat.

[minionofmidas]

Livingston 72,725+x*.99
Livingston N, S, E & East Calder, Fauldhouse & Breich Valley, Whitburn & Blackburn wards, Uphall part of Broxburn, Uphall & Winchburgh 13,906*.99)
Linlithgow(, Bathgate) & Grangemouth 76,819-x*.99
Remainder of authority, Bo'ness & Blackness and Grangemouth wards of Falkirk
Falkirk 78,360*.99
Western parts of authority, excluding also Carse, Kinnaird & Tryst ward.

An alternative would be to cross the Edinburgh boundary after all, adding Queensferry to the Linlithgow seat. Would make things easier in Edinburgh. Depends on too many variables to know for sure right now, though.

[doktorb]

You'd have to include "Leith" in an Edinburgh seat name, they go mad if you don't....

[minionofmidas]

You'd have to include "Leith" in an Edinburgh seat name, they go mad if you don't....

The most obvious way to do that would be to just change it from "Edinburgh North East" to "Edinburgh Leith", I think.

[minionofmidas]

Fife North East 74,274*.988+x
Gains the Leven etc ward and Methil from the Buckhaven etc ward (14,314)
Glenrothes & Kirkcaldy 74,358*.988+x(-x)
The six wards whose names begin in either "Glenrothes" or "Kirkcaldy", plus the remainder of Buckhaven etc. This is almost certainly slightly too large (though I assume the sizable foreign population in Fife is in Dunfermline and at the eastern end rather than in the coalfield), and there actually is a bit of Kirkcaldy sliced off already, but there's still room for removal west of Glenrothes proper. Only remove the bare minimum though.
Dunfermline 76,582*.988
I'd originally intended to pair Dunfermline with Clackmannan, but to my surprise this worked out better.
Dunfermline wards, Rosyth, Inverkeithing & Dalgety Bay, Burntisland etc.
Cowdenbeath & Clackmannan 75,286(+x)*.988/.984 (Clackmannan part)
Remaining wards of The Lochs, Lochgelly & Cardenden, Cowdenbeath, West Fife & Coastal Villages, probably some territory on the outskirts of Glenrothes; Clackmannanshire except West ward (based on Tullibody)
Stirling 81,937*.985/.984/.99-x
Stirling excluding the huge northern Trossach & Teiths ward; Clackmannanshire West; Carse, Kinnaird & Tryst.
Probably still be too large, in which case we have the options of removing the larger Dunblane & Bridge of Allan ward (12,764) instead, or of removing Trossach & Teiths and the Dunblane part of Dunblane. Although that latter might already be too much or close to.

[minionofmidas]

Inverness, Moray, Aberdeenshire, Angus is about 5.12

Highland   171,587 174,428 1.6%
Moray         66,169   66,872 1.1%
Aberdeen 332,593 339,550 2.0% City of Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire
Dundee    190,454 192,861 1.2% and Angus

Inverness remnant portion 57,454*.984 (ca. 56,535)
Aberdeenshire 182,953*.98 (ca. 179,294)
Angus 86,536*.988 (ca. 85,498)

One seat Inverness and parts of Moray, a Moray seat extending into Banffshire, a seat taking in the bulk of Angus, two broadly Aberdeenshire seats with a northern bit lopped off and a southern bit slapped on. Right...

Inverness, Nairn & Forres ca.77,123
Remainder of Highland (including Strathdearn... taking account of that as well would have made my headache even worse), Heldon & Laich and Forres wards of Moray
Moray & Banff ca.69,942+x
Remainder of Moray, Banff  & District, Troup, Turriff & District, and the northern part of Huntly etc ward (Strathbogie; this ward is 11,136*.98) of Aberdeenshire.
Gordon & Buchan (I suppose... what does "Gordon" refer to, exactly?) ca.80,414*.98
Fraserburgh, Central Buchan, Peterhead N & S, Mid Formantine, Ellon, East Garioch, Inverurie. If there are few furriners here (less than 1%), it might be above quota in which case a ward needs to be split.
Aberdeenshire West & Kincardine ca.77,246+x
Remainder of Aberdeenshire including the southern parts of Huntly etc ward; Brechin & Edzell ward Montrose & District ward in Angus
Angus 77,722*.988
Remainder

This also moves the dividing line in Huntly etc southward.

Dundee West 67,296*.988+x
Strathmartine, Lochlee, West End, Coldside, Maryfield; inland part of Monifieth & Sidlaw (12,812) ward of Angus
Dundee East & Arbroath 72,144*.988+x
East End, North East, The Ferry; Carnoustie & District, Arbroath West & Letham, Arbroath East & Lunam, Monifieth part of Monifieth & Sidlaw
This seat is an expanded version of the former Tayside North abomination but I don't want to call it Tayside North 69,006*different factors+x. Atholl. I think Atholl should go into this name somewhere.
Forfar & District, Brechin & Edzell, Kirriemuir & Dean in Angus; Blairgowrie & Glens, Highland, Strathtay, Strathearn, northern parts of Strathmore (11,690) in Perth & Kinross; Trossachs & Teith in Stirling
Perth & Kinross 79,766*.984-x(+x)
Remainder of authority; plus possibly Dunblane (which might go into the name if included).

And that's it.

[doktorb]

When I eventually finish mine, the next step - typing up the proposals into a formal document. We better get reconition for this!

[doktorb]

I'll let you know how I get on here, now I know that Prestwich is a 25k unit which shouldn't be split, I can only look at a Rest of Bury + Rochdale seat, bringing Prestwich with bits south....

[doktorb]

http://www.vote-2007.co.uk/index.php?topic=3672.msg187133#msg187133

[doktorb]

I have become really, really stuck in Trafford. There's no wiggle room at all, I'm feeling a bit trapped by the constraints.

My latest attempts are:

Davyhulme and Salford Quays - over 78k
Altrincham and Urmston - over 78k

This leaves about 41k with Stretford, Sale and....well, it has to be Manchester's western bits.

Worsley - 73k

Salford, Eccles and Prestwich WAS looking alright, until I divvied off the southern bits for the Trafford seat, so now I've got Prestwich, Eccles and....er...random bits leftover.

Manchester North East - 73k (Bradford, Ancoats, Moston, Blakely....)
Manchester East - 73k (Gorton, Ardwick, Longsight, Burnage...)
Manchester West - 73k (Hulme, Moss Side, Whalley Range, Chorlton....)
Manchester South - 72k  (Baguely, Didsbury, Northenden....)

[doktorb]

Right, it looks awful on a  map but **** it, "Manchester South and Sale" means I've sorted out Trafford.




For now....

[doktorb]

Can't fix my Trafford problem =<