2004- What would have happend if there was diffrent canidates?

[tb78]

You change the candidates from both parties

[Bo]

You got the map wrong.

[Derek]

http://

Here's a Bush vs. Leiberman map if you're talking about different candidates.

[Derek]

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and Bush vs Dean

[Derek]

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Don't forget Bush vs. Edwards

[Derek]

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and of course Bush vs. Gephardt

[Derek]

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oh and I almost forgot Dennis Kucinich

[Bo]

http://

and Bush vs Dean

lol at Dean losing California.

[Derek]

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and Bush vs Dean

lol at Dean losing California.

California is only about the 10th most liberal state in presidential elections. In fact you probably don't know but California was closer thn Illinois and Hawaii. There was a point where Kerry led Bush 49-46 there while Bush had a 49% approval rating. It wasn't out of the question between the GOP convention and the debates.

[justW353]

Clark vs. Bush

[Senator Libertas]

Dean vs. Bush

[Derek]

How can anyone think that Howard Dean is electable. The guy is a raging moron and openly admitted that the healthcare bill didn't include a cap on frivolous lawsuits because they didn't want to upset the trial lawyers. When asked what he meant, he denied ever saying it despite the footage.

[Bo]

How can anyone think that Howard Dean is electable. The guy is a raging moron and openly admitted that the healthcare bill didn't include a cap on frivolous lawsuits because they didn't want to upset the trial lawyers. When asked what he meant, he denied ever saying it despite the footage.

Ppppppplease. Dean is a modeate, just like Kerry. He is even in favor of gun rights and got an A from the NRA as Governor of Vermont.

[Derek]

How can anyone think that Howard Dean is electable. The guy is a raging moron and openly admitted that the healthcare bill didn't include a cap on frivolous lawsuits because they didn't want to upset the trial lawyers. When asked what he meant, he denied ever saying it despite the footage.

Ppppppplease. Dean is a modeate, just like Kerry. He is even in favor of gun rights and got an A from the NRA as Governor of Vermont.

Oooooooooooh gun rights, that's right the 2004 election was all about your right to own a gun. Dean is a socialist and even said that we need to find the right balance between capitalism and socialism. Socialism has no place in this country. He wanted to surrender authority of commander in chief to the UN when it came to sending our troops into harms way. Then there was the Dean Scream. Oh, and for the record, John Kerry had the most liberal voting record in the senate that year.

[Bo]

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This could also be the map for Bush Jr. vs. Obama 2004.

[Derek]

http://

This could also be the map for Bush Jr. vs. Obama 2004.

I'd still give Obama IL that year but yea. Kucinich could have lost every state.

[Bo]

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This could also be the map for Bush Jr. vs. Obama 2004.

I'd still give Obama IL that year but yea. Kucinich could have lost every state.

IL went for Bush by about 10%, if I remember correctly. Obama (a little-known state senator) would scare enough people about his experience that the state will flip to Bush. At least no one could question Kerry's experience.

[Derek]

http://

This could also be the map for Bush Jr. vs. Obama 2004.

I'd still give Obama IL that year but yea. Kucinich could have lost every state.

IL went for Bush by about 10%, if I remember correctly. Obama (a little-known state senator) would scare enough people about his experience that the state will flip to Bush. At least no one could question Kerry's experience.

That's true but it didn't work for Alan Keyes. IL went 55-45 I believe as did CA and CT.

[Bo]

http://

This could also be the map for Bush Jr. vs. Obama 2004.

I'd still give Obama IL that year but yea. Kucinich could have lost every state.

IL went for Bush by about 10%, if I remember correctly. Obama (a little-known state senator) would scare enough people about his experience that the state will flip to Bush. At least no one could question Kerry's experience.

That's true but it didn't work for Alan Keyes. IL went 55-45 I believe as did CA and CT.

Alan Keyes was a joke candidadte. Bush Jr. was not.

[Derek]

http://

This could also be the map for Bush Jr. vs. Obama 2004.

I'd still give Obama IL that year but yea. Kucinich could have lost every state.

IL went for Bush by about 10%, if I remember correctly. Obama (a little-known state senator) would scare enough people about his experience that the state will flip to Bush. At least no one could question Kerry's experience.

That's true but it didn't work for Alan Keyes. IL went 55-45 I believe as did CA and CT.

Alan Keyes was a joke candidadte. Bush Jr. was not.

Either way the fact IL was Obama's state plus IL being a good state for a democrat to be from. I'm not ruling IL out for Bush if Obama was the nominee. It would be close.

[Bo]

http://

This could also be the map for Bush Jr. vs. Obama 2004.

I'd still give Obama IL that year but yea. Kucinich could have lost every state.

IL went for Bush by about 10%, if I remember correctly. Obama (a little-known state senator) would scare enough people about his experience that the state will flip to Bush. At least no one could question Kerry's experience.

That's true but it didn't work for Alan Keyes. IL went 55-45 I believe as did CA and CT.

Alan Keyes was a joke candidadte. Bush Jr. was not.

Either way the fact IL was Obama's state plus IL being a good state for a democrat to be from. I'm not ruling IL out for Bush if Obama was the nominee. It would be close.

I'm not sure if Illinois law would have allowed Obama to run for the Senate and for the Presidency at the same time. If it did, I could see a huge amount of voters voting Obama for Senate while voting against him as President. Also, many Presidential nominees who were more experienced than Obama was in 2004 lost or almost lost their home states.

[nclib]

While Obama would have badly lost if he were running for President from the State Senate, due to inexperience, an important caveat would be the following scenario:

Obama was originally elected to the U.S. Senate from Illinois in 2000 (I know IL didn't have a Senate election in 2000, but ignore that for my hypothetical scenario to be consistent with the actual). Then he runs against Bush Jr. in 2004. How would that election turn out?

Alan Keyes was a joke candidadte. Bush Jr. was not.

Bush Jr. was too, but just wasn't perceived as one.

[Bo]

While Obama would have badly lost if he were running for President from the State Senate, due to inexperience, an important caveat would be the following scenario:

Obama was originally elected to the U.S. Senate from Illinois in 2000. Then he runs against Bush Jr. in 2004.  How would that election turn out?

Alan Keyes was a joke candidadte. Bush Jr. was not.

Bush Jr. was too, but just wasn't perceived as one.

Illinois didn't have a Senate election in 2000.

[nclib]

While Obama would have badly lost if he were running for President from the State Senate, due to inexperience, an important caveat would be the following scenario:

Obama was originally elected to the U.S. Senate from Illinois in 2000. Then he runs against Bush Jr. in 2004.  How would that election turn out?

Alan Keyes was a joke candidadte. Bush Jr. was not.

Bush Jr. was too, but just wasn't perceived as one.

Illinois didn't have a Senate election in 2000.

I know that. I used that as a hypothetical, to be analogous to the real scenario if him being a Senator for 4 years prior to running for President.

[Bo]

While Obama would have badly lost if he were running for President from the State Senate, due to inexperience, an important caveat would be the following scenario:

Obama was originally elected to the U.S. Senate from Illinois in 2000. Then he runs against Bush Jr. in 2004.  How would that election turn out?

Alan Keyes was a joke candidadte. Bush Jr. was not.

Bush Jr. was too, but just wasn't perceived as one.

Illinois didn't have a Senate election in 2000.

I know that. I used that as a hypothetical, to be analogous to the real scenario if him being a Senator for 4 years prior to running for President.

All right. IMO, in your scenario the map would be something like this:



A 346-192 Bush Jr. win.