NYC wants to make carrying a gun while drunk a crime

[Lunar]

It's behind a pay wall, but I'll post the whole thing with a suggestion that people subscribe.  The WSJ is the most widely distributed newspaper in America, and it's totally worth it to be on top of such an influential news source even though their editorial section is a hackish pile of crap.

http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2010/05/14/nyc-wants-to-make-carrying-gun-while-drunk-a-crime/?mod=rss_WSJBlog&mod=WSJ_NY_NY_Blog

Drunk? Leave the Guns at Home
By Sean Gardiner

Bad news for gun-toting boozers: if Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly get their way, PWI, or Packing While Intoxicated, will be a crime.

The mayor and police commissioner announced a package of revised regulations for guns and gun licensing on Friday. One of the proposed regulations would make it a crime to carry a licensed weapon while intoxicated, a misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in jail. Under the proposed measure, the same legal standards for driving while intoxicated would be applied, according to a statement released Friday.

The proposed law got immediate endorsements from two influential City Council members.

“When drunk drivers get behind the wheel, that vehicle becomes a deadly weapon,” said Council Speaker Christine Quinn. “The same laws should apply to those who carry handguns and are under the influence of alcohol or drugs.”

“Guns and alcohol are a toxic mix,” said Public Safety Chair Peter Vallone, Jr. “We can no longer wait for Albany to get its act together. We need to protect our citizens now and that’s why this legislation was introduced.”

Quinn said the city council will hold public-safety hearings on the measure.

[Lief 🗽]

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

[Eraserhead]

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     So what do you if you plan to get wasted? Hand your gun over to a designated gunkeeper?

[Lunar]

    So what do you if you plan to get wasted? Hand your gun over to a designated gunkeeper?

I guess you plan ahead, just like you do if you're driving to a bar.  If you're carrying a gun to a bar, you plan ahead.  If you spontaneously decide to get drunk, just like you do so after driving somewhere, you have to figure out an alternative solution.  One of those could be to safely store the gun someplace else out of reach, such as the trunk of someone's car.

Surely you see the dangers of having someone totally wasted with a gun?  Far more dangerous, imo, than driving while drunk.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     So what do you if you plan to get wasted? Hand your gun over to a designated gunkeeper?

I guess you plan ahead, just like you do if you're driving to a bar.  If you're carrying a gun to a bar, you plan ahead. 

Surely you see the dangers of having someone totally intoxicated with a gun?

     There are dangers in lots of things. I was rather thinking aloud, since the law should not be placing unreasonable impositions on people. I think that the designated gunkeeper comment sort of implied that I was talking about planning ahead.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Isn't there a law that mentally ill people can't carry guns? Because intoxication is a form of mental illness, albeit a temporary one.

[cinyc]

Ordinary people can carry a gun in NYC?  I thought that was already restricted to only the rich, famous and politically connected.

Bloomberg is a nanny state idiot.

[Lunar]

Ordinary people can carry a gun in NYC?  I thought that was already restricted to only the rich, famous and politically connected.

Why would the rich and famous want to carry a gun?  Don't they have bodyguards?

[Lunar]

I should note too that although I agree with the spirit of the law, I'm not sure how many legally licensed handguns are held by dangerously drunk or intoxicated citizens walking around in public in NYC.

Certainly, I'm sure,  a lot of drunk/intoxicated gangmembers people carry guns in NYC, but what percentage of them have licenses?

However, it is nice to slap on an additional charge to someone who's drunk and carrying a gun, and is breaking another crime (threatening with a deadly weapon, carrying an  illegal gun, etc) and give law enforcement another prosecutorial tool.   I have a hard time believing that there's this large population of nondangerous, drunk gun-owners that would be victims of this law in NYC.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I should note too that although I agree with the spirit of the law, I'm not sure how many legally licensed handguns are held by dangerously drunk or intoxicated citizens walking around in public in NYC.

Certainly, I'm sure,  a lot of drunk/intoxicated gangmembers people carry guns in NYC, but what percentage of them have licenses?

However, it is nice to slap on an additional charge to someone who's drunk and carrying a gun, and is breaking another crime (threatening with a deadly weapon, carrying an  illegal gun, etc) and give law enforcement another prosecutorial tool.   I have a hard time believing that there's this large population of nondangerous, drunk gun-owners that would be victims of this law in NYC.

     But if you just want to slap another charge on someone, you could make it an enhancement for another crime, rather than a crime itself. Either way, I do not think this is something that is reasonably enforceable on its own.

[Lunar]

I should note too that although I agree with the spirit of the law, I'm not sure how many legally licensed handguns are held by dangerously drunk or intoxicated citizens walking around in public in NYC.

Certainly, I'm sure,  a lot of drunk/intoxicated gangmembers people carry guns in NYC, but what percentage of them have licenses?

However, it is nice to slap on an additional charge to someone who's drunk and carrying a gun, and is breaking another crime (threatening with a deadly weapon, carrying an  illegal gun, etc) and give law enforcement another prosecutorial tool.   I have a hard time believing that there's this large population of nondangerous, drunk gun-owners that would be victims of this law in NYC.

     But if you just want to slap another charge on someone, you could make it an enhancement for another crime, rather than a crime itself. Either way, I do not think this is something that is reasonably enforceable on its own.

Does it matter if it's an enhancement or an additional crime?

[Associate Justice PiT]

I should note too that although I agree with the spirit of the law, I'm not sure how many legally licensed handguns are held by dangerously drunk or intoxicated citizens walking around in public in NYC.

Certainly, I'm sure,  a lot of drunk/intoxicated gangmembers people carry guns in NYC, but what percentage of them have licenses?

However, it is nice to slap on an additional charge to someone who's drunk and carrying a gun, and is breaking another crime (threatening with a deadly weapon, carrying an  illegal gun, etc) and give law enforcement another prosecutorial tool.   I have a hard time believing that there's this large population of nondangerous, drunk gun-owners that would be victims of this law in NYC.

     But if you just want to slap another charge on someone, you could make it an enhancement for another crime, rather than a crime itself. Either way, I do not think this is something that is reasonably enforceable on its own.

Does it matter if it's an enhancement or an additional crime?

     Depends on how it's enforced. If the police go around searching every drunk person for a gun? Then yeah, there's a big difference. If they do not bother with separate enforcement, as I think would be wise, then there is no difference.

[Lunar]

I mean...do they search every traffic violation for an open container of alcohol?   I'd hope and expect that there's some reasonable suspicion involved in the searches.

However, NYC does have a very aggressive "stop and frisk" program where there isn't a lot of suspicion to search ANYONE for a gun: http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2010/05/watch_out_for_t.php


Also, legally, I'm not sure [at all] how easy it is for city to slap on additional charges to crimes that were legislated at the state or federal level. 

[Associate Justice PiT]

     New York City is also known for questionable sting operations. Suffice it to say, I don't see much reason to give them the benefit of the doubt about enforcing this law in a non-abusive manner. That may just be me, though.

[Oakvale]

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Ordinary people can carry a gun in NYC?  I thought that was already restricted to only the rich, famous and politically connected.

Why would the rich and famous want to carry a gun?  Don't they have bodyguards?

cinyc is right..you don't get a permit to carry in NY without being one of the things he said.  So the law is mostly meaningless.

[Lunar]

Ordinary people can carry a gun in NYC?  I thought that was already restricted to only the rich, famous and politically connected.

Why would the rich and famous want to carry a gun?  Don't they have bodyguards?

cinyc is right..you don't get a permit to carry in NY without being one of the things he said.  So the law is mostly meaningless.

1.  What about the bodyguards of the rich and famous?  Should they be allowed to be drunk and armed?

2.  Should those convicted of related crimes (public drunkenness, possession of illegal handguns etc etc) be punished more harshly if they are drunk and carrying a gun?

[cinyc]

Ordinary people can carry a gun in NYC?  I thought that was already restricted to only the rich, famous and politically connected.

Why would the rich and famous want to carry a gun?  Don't they have bodyguards?

It's the thing to do.  The list of New Yorkers with concealed carry gun permits reads like the who's-who of celebrities and the politically connected.  Ordinary citizens need not even bother to apply.  The chance of actually getting a permit are pretty much slim and none unless your name is DeNiro or Imus or Howard Stern.

[memphis]

Anybody else shocked this isn't already a crime?

[TheGreatOne]

If someone is completely wasted and carries a gun, they should be fined, have the gun taken away, and lose their right to have a gun for a number of years.  This is common sense.  I expect my government to protect me from people who have no control over themselve.  We all know how some males can act when they're drunk.  Just a few weeks ago, some drunk phraternity thug bumped into me accidentally, and started to attack because he thought I pushed him.  We should treat this like a drunk driver.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Seems like plain old common sense to me. Even North Dakota of all places already has a similar law, where you can be fined and lose your hunting license if you are caught hunting with a BAC too high. Not too inconvenient either, when you go out for a night of getting plastered, leave your gun home. Not too difficult.

[dead0man]

I agree with the consensus, seems like a no brainer to me.

[Smash255]

Makes perfect sense. 

[Tuck!]

Makes perfect sense.