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February 27, 2015, 01:04:29 am
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| | |-+  War of 1812: Win, Loss, or Draw for America?
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Question: Well
American Win   -1 (4.2%)
Draw   -14 (58.3%)
American Loss   -9 (37.5%)
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Total Voters: 24

Author Topic: War of 1812: Win, Loss, or Draw for America?  (Read 397 times)
Badger
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« on: February 24, 2015, 01:33:55 am »
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I vote Draw, fwiw, based on the return to antibellum status in the Treaty of Ghent and rather mixed bag of military successes (and failures) on both sides.
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2015, 10:18:15 am »

A loss for the simple reason that we got both The Star Spangled Banner and Andrew Jackson as a result of it.
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Emperor Justinian I
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2015, 11:15:37 am »
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Basically a Status quo ante bellum.
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« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2015, 10:16:08 pm »
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A win for the simple reason that we got both The Star Spangled Banner and Andrew Jackson as a result of it.

Fixed.

But seriously, I voted draw.
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« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2015, 10:29:47 pm »
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     We started a war and got our capital sacked. I know that not much changed from the status quo, but it's hard for me to call that anything other than a loss.
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2015, 12:51:35 am »

A win for the simple reason that we got both The Star Spangled Banner and Andrew Jackson as a result of it.

Fixed.

But seriously, I voted draw.

Obviously you are tone deaf.  To be fair Francis Scott Key didn't pair up his poem with that tune, and that tune isn't bad for a singer trying to show their chops, but it's horrible for an anthem intended to be widely sung.
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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2015, 01:09:04 am »
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Technically a draw, but it was probably the best case scenario for the United States.
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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2015, 09:41:00 am »
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A win for the simple reason that we got both The Star Spangled Banner and Andrew Jackson as a result of it.

Fixed.

But seriously, I voted draw.

Obviously you are tone deaf.  To be fair Francis Scott Key didn't pair up his poem with that tune, and that tune isn't bad for a singer trying to show their chops, but it's horrible for an anthem intended to be widely sung.

I personally think America the Beautiful would make a much better national anthem.
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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2015, 10:25:59 am »
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We've been taught since childhood that we kicked your butts, but Wikipedia says it was a draw.
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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2015, 11:35:17 am »
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We've been taught since childhood that we kicked your butts, but Wikipedia says it was a draw.

Canada did kick our butts. The invasion of Canada went terribly for the United States, and Canadians were a major part of that. But there were two other major opponents to the USA in the war: Britain, who won some, lost some, and agreed to peace without a change in territory; and Tecumseh's Confederacy, who basically lost to the USA.
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« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2015, 09:42:14 pm »
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America stopped having sailors impressed for foreign navies, so that's a plus.
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« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2015, 09:56:28 pm »
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A win for the simple reason that we got both The Star Spangled Banner and Andrew Jackson as a result of it.

Fixed.

But seriously, I voted draw.

Obviously you are tone deaf.  To be fair Francis Scott Key didn't pair up his poem with that tune, and that tune isn't bad for a singer trying to show their chops, but it's horrible for an anthem intended to be widely sung.

Well, do you want Yankee Doodle to be the national anthem instead?
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« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2015, 10:12:08 pm »

America stopped having sailors impressed for foreign navies, so that's a plus.

That was more because with the Napoleonic Wars at an end, the Royal Navy no longer needed to impress sailors to fill the ranks.
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« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2015, 10:41:19 pm »
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America stopped having sailors impressed for foreign navies, so that's a plus.

That was more because with the Napoleonic Wars at an end, the Royal Navy no longer needed to impress sailors to fill the ranks.

still, the Brits never tried that one again though, did they?
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« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2015, 11:21:12 pm »

America stopped having sailors impressed for foreign navies, so that's a plus.

That was more because with the Napoleonic Wars at an end, the Royal Navy no longer needed to impress sailors to fill the ranks.

still, the Brits never tried that one again though, did they?

They never had the need again.  By the time their next major naval war was fought, their limiting factor in naval war was capital, not labor.
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Badger
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« Reply #15 on: Today at 12:38:11 am »
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     We started a war and got our capital sacked. I know that not much changed from the status quo, but it's hard for me to call that anything other than a loss.

So? Unlike most European wars where the capture of a capital was usually the last ditch battle of the losing army, the capture of Washington was merely a raid where the British relinquished control of the city within 24 hours. Sure it was a humiliating defeat of a single battle (or rather the Battle of Bladensburg), but it meant little strategically for the overall war or the ultimate Treaty of Ghent.

Besides, does that mean America similarly raiding and burning Canada's capital (York, nka Toronto) mean Canada lost the war?
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« Reply #16 on: Today at 12:47:27 am »
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We've been taught since childhood that we kicked your butts, but Wikipedia says it was a draw.

Canada did kick our butts. The invasion of Canada went terribly for the United States, and Canadians were a major part of that. But there were two other major opponents to the USA in the war: Britain, who won some, lost some, and agreed to peace without a change in territory; and Tecumseh's Confederacy, who basically lost to the USA.

@ Hatman: that's adorable, but there wasn't any 'we' Canadians at the time, only loyal servants of the British Crown. Tongue

@ you & Sparkey: the Canadian border was more of a stalemate than anything. Yes, there were failed American invasions, but the British invasion was thwarted by defeat on Lake Champlain, and the were American victories along the front which weren't followed up for strategic gains, not to mention that burning of York (strategically meaningless as it was).
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