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| | |-+  Moses, Hebrews leaving Egypt, etc. - backed up by other histories?
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Author Topic: Moses, Hebrews leaving Egypt, etc. - backed up by other histories?  (Read 634 times)
True Federalist
Ernest
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« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2013, 09:24:02 pm »

Tree ring seems like a good way to calibrate it.  But is that accurate? Don't trees only live a few hundred years?

Yeah, but you can build a chronology using multiple trees from the same area and the size of the growth rings of each.

Apparently any carbon dating in this region is disputed by 100 -150 years due to volcanic activity that affected carbon levels.

Yup, besides ending Minoan civilization, Thera caused a major disruption for radiocarbon dating by releasing a fair amount of non-radioactive carbon into the environment.  Problem is, Thera's eruption absolutely predates the Eighteenth dynasty.  Pumice identified as coming from Thera has been found at Avaris in layers predating the destruction of the city by Ahmose I.  (Avaris had been the capital of the XVIIth Dynasty.) That city of Avaris was later rebuilt under the XIXth Dynasty as the city of Pi-Ramesses mentioned in Exodus 1.  Incidentally, that's another reason that no attempt to treat Exodus as literal history can support an XVIIIth Dynasty exodus.
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“Always it is easier to pay homage to prophets than to heed the direction of their vision.”
                Clinton Lee Scott

Read Fat Man on a Diet, an alternate history in which the history of atomic weapons does not go as it did in our timeline.
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« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2013, 08:16:28 pm »
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Besides the skin lesions/boils on 3 generatons of Pharaohs, Thutmose III ( not the first born of Thutmose II - implies the real first born died & secretly subsituted for: Passover; Exodus implies the first borns in Pharaoh's house died during Passover),  We have genetic evidence (specific gene markers)  for the House of Cohen (priests directly form Aaron, Moses' brother).  [[Supports Exodus of Bible]

There seems to be a trail of Joshua conquest around 1430 BC (Jericho, Hazor, Ai(of Khirbet el-Maqatir). We have Israel type houses that follow the Egyptian floor/home plans directly from Avaris Egypt in the Nile delta; the worship of ONE God entering in Caanan/Palestine. [[Supports Joshua of the Bible]]

So there is evidence outside of the Bible for God's plagues against Egypt (skin lesions), Passover death of first born of Egypt including Pharaoh's house (Thutmose III the GREAT was not related to Thutmose II, so the real Thutmose III nust have died & secretly replaced).

There is evidence of great turmoil in Egypt around the time of Thutmose II thru Akenhanten: a women becomes Pharaoh, rejection of most of Egypt's gods by a Pharaoh.

Evidence buildiing for Joshua's Conquest of Caanan building: Jericho, Hazor, Ai near 1400 - 1500 BC.  Strong gentic markers for the house of Cohen (Aaron - Moses's brother). Through the genetic markers, one has evidence for Moses.

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« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2013, 09:24:49 pm »

Another problem is, if you date the Israelite exodus of the promised land to the Eighteenth Dynasty, you're placing it a couple of centuries before the iron age begins, and the Book of Joshua mentions them facing enemies with chariots of iron several times.  So an Eighteenth Dynasty exodus requires that the Bible contains factual errors of history which sorta defeats the point of trying to use specific points of the historical record to prove the authenticity of the Bible.

All the genetic markers you mention support is that the kohens have a common patrilineal ancestor, but provides absolutely no support as to who that ancestor is.
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“Always it is easier to pay homage to prophets than to heed the direction of their vision.”
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Read Fat Man on a Diet, an alternate history in which the history of atomic weapons does not go as it did in our timeline.
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« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2013, 05:32:23 am »
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The Cohen (house of Aaron, all trace their lineage from Aaron and as being priests of God from the Exodus days).  The DNA strongly supports their historical claim of one common male ancestor Aaron.  And if Aaron existed from Exodus days, then his brother the Bible claims is Moses.  That supports the claim for the existence of Moses and that the Biblical record is probably true.

From my perspective, a supernatural element can be seen here. 1) Egyptian mummification and the protection of Pharaoh mummies preserved the evidence for the Biblical plague; 2) the Pharaohs were preserved and the lineage texts/with children to know that Thutmose III was the first born of Thutmose II -- but the DNA of Pharaoh Thutmose III confirms that his father was NOT Thutmose II (he was a secret substitution). This supports the Biblical claim that even the god Pharaoh suffered loss of his first born at the Passover ( think of it, what are the odds that evidence exists today for the Passover???!!! - yet it does).  3)The other is that the kohens/Cohens (a derivative of Aaron claim they are the priestly line from Exodus days).  The DNA markers strongly backup their claim that they all descended from Aaron as priests from Exodus days. And if Aaron existed from Exodus days, the that gives credence to Moses the brother of Aaron being an actual historical figure from Exodus days.

To me the earliest Israelite homes being exactly like the homes from Egyptian Avaris (just before the time of the Exodus 1500 BCE) and TOTALLY different Caanan homes is PROOF for the Exodus.  The French excavators know that Avaris, in the Nile delta, was home to semetic  peoples.  The Bible says the Hebrews/Israelite settled in the Nile Delta.  The Israelites brought belief in the ONE God to the Levant/Palestine/Caanan.

I think they have discovered that the Iron age began a couple hundred years earlier than previously thought. There is evidence that the iron age started a couple hundred years earlier - preliminary findings(?). So let's wait for more evidence.  I think I read that somewhere in 2012 that the Hittites had iron earlier.

""Where or when such knowledge was first acquired would be difficult to pinpoint.  There is evidence that it [iron] was first used in the Zagros Mountains of what is now western Iran after 3500 B.C.""

Once again everything points to around 3430 BC (1430 BC) : destruction of Caananite cities carbon dating, the iron age existing with Hittiles.

  From my perspective, there is enough "outside" evidence to support the Biblical claims of plagues, Passover (Exodus), entering/conquering Caanan, priesthood & laws beginning during Exodus days (Cohans historical claim- dna to Aaron).
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« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2013, 06:30:08 am »
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Before Archeology found the "Hittites" the Bible said they existed (another reason the Bible could not be trusted to be historically accurate they said). 
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« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2013, 10:59:53 am »

There are occasional iron artifacts before the Iron Age proper, but it wasn't until the Bronze Age Collapse caused the interruption of the tin trade that the use of the more expensive iron took place at the levels needed to develop it as a widely useful metal.
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“Always it is easier to pay homage to prophets than to heed the direction of their vision.”
                Clinton Lee Scott

Read Fat Man on a Diet, an alternate history in which the history of atomic weapons does not go as it did in our timeline.
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« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2013, 11:47:32 am »
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I remember correctly they found a chariot/wheel made with remenant of iron some where in Syria about 200 -300 years earlier than before.  That's if my memory is right.
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« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2013, 12:44:53 pm »

While the Anatolians seem to have entered the Iron Age earlier than their neighbors, the archeological record places their entry as having occurred in the Nineteenth Dynasty, with iron use becoming more widespread in the Twentieth.  Certainly not early to middle Eighteenth Dynasty as would be needed to reconcile the presence of iron chariots in Joshua with the idea that Thutmose II was the pharaoh of the exodus.
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“Always it is easier to pay homage to prophets than to heed the direction of their vision.”
                Clinton Lee Scott

Read Fat Man on a Diet, an alternate history in which the history of atomic weapons does not go as it did in our timeline.
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