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Author Topic: Is Judicial Review Constitutional?  (Read 6036 times)
WillK
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« Reply #50 on: June 01, 2010, 09:39:49 pm »
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What did Jefferson contribute, intellectually, to the Constitution?

Adams did not contribute much to the intellectual underpinnings of the U.S. Constitution. Jefferson and Madison did. They were far more qualified than Adams to comment on the constitutionality of judicial review.

Well, that is certainly an inaccurate historical statement.

Well no, it most certainly is not.
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« Reply #51 on: June 01, 2010, 09:40:10 pm »
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Well no, it most certainly is not.

You may think you're right, and I'm sure in your fantasy world you are, but in the world of facts, you are incorrect.  Sorry.
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« Reply #52 on: June 01, 2010, 09:57:14 pm »
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What did Jefferson contribute, intellectually, to the Constitution?

Adams did not contribute much to the intellectual underpinnings of the U.S. Constitution. Jefferson and Madison did. They were far more qualified than Adams to comment on the constitutionality of judicial review.

Well, that is certainly an inaccurate historical statement.

Well no, it most certainly is not.

The Constitution is based on the Jeffersonian principle that the government be limited strictly to specifically-enumerated powers. In addition, it is thanks largely to the Jeffersonians that we have our Bill of Rights.

Adams's conservative, aristocratic, authoritarian view of government is not reflected in the Constitution.
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WillK
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« Reply #53 on: June 01, 2010, 10:02:26 pm »
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What did Jefferson contribute, intellectually, to the Constitution?

Adams did not contribute much to the intellectual underpinnings of the U.S. Constitution. Jefferson and Madison did. They were far more qualified than Adams to comment on the constitutionality of judicial review.

Well, that is certainly an inaccurate historical statement.

Well no, it most certainly is not.

The Constitution is based on the Jeffersonian principle that the government be limited strictly to specifically-enumerated powers. In addition, it is thanks largely to the Jeffersonians that we have our Bill of Rights.

Epic fail of a response.  The concept of "Jeffersonian" did not exist at the time the Constitution was drafted.  You claimed that Jefferson himself, not some alleged "Jeffersonians", had contributed much to the intellectual underpinnings of the U.S. Constitution. 

Quote
Adams's conservative, aristocratic, authoritarian view of government is not reflected in the Constitution.

Adam's intellectual views on government expressed in his work on the Massachusetts Constitution and his book on American state constitutions, which was published in the US at the time of the Constitution, had a big impact on the drafting of the US constitution.  His view of the need to balance powers against each other is a main feature of the Constitution.
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« Reply #54 on: June 01, 2010, 10:03:17 pm »
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The Constitution is based on the Jeffersonian principle that the government be limited strictly to specifically-enumerated powers. In addition, it is thanks largely to the Jeffersonians that we have our Bill of Rights.

Adams's conservative, aristocratic, authoritarian view of government is not reflected in the Constitution.

Wow; that is almost completely wrong.  Only the bolded part has even the slightest historical merit.
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« Reply #55 on: June 01, 2010, 10:07:42 pm »
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What did Jefferson contribute, intellectually, to the Constitution?

Adams did not contribute much to the intellectual underpinnings of the U.S. Constitution. Jefferson and Madison did. They were far more qualified than Adams to comment on the constitutionality of judicial review.

Well, that is certainly an inaccurate historical statement.

Well no, it most certainly is not.

The Constitution is based on the Jeffersonian principle that the government be limited strictly to specifically-enumerated powers. In addition, it is thanks largely to the Jeffersonians that we have our Bill of Rights.

Epic fail of a response.  The concept of "Jeffersonian" did not exist at the time the Constitution was drafted.  You claimed that Jefferson himself, not some alleged "Jeffersonians", had contributed much to the intellectual underpinnings of the U.S. Constitution. 

Quote
Adams's conservative, aristocratic, authoritarian view of government is not reflected in the Constitution.

Adam's intellectual views on government expressed in his work on the Massachusetts Constitution and his book on American state constitutions, which was published in the US at the time of the Constitution, had a big impact on the drafting of the US constitution.  His view of the need to balance powers against each other is a main feature of the Constitution.

Epic fail of a response? Right back atcha.

Adams' intellectual influence on our Constitutional system was minimal at best.

Quote
In the book, Adams suggested that "the rich, the well-born and the able" should be set apart from other men in a senate—that would prevent them from dominating the lower house. Wood (2006) has maintained that Adams had become intellectually irrelevant by the time the Federal Constitution was ratified. By then, American political thought, transformed by more than a decade of vigorous and searching debate as well as shaping experiential pressures, had abandoned the classical conception of politics which understood government as a mirror of social estates.


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« Reply #56 on: June 01, 2010, 10:14:22 pm »
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Adams' intellectual influence on our Constitutional system was minimal at best.

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In the book, Adams suggested that "the rich, the well-born and the able" should be set apart from other men in a senate—that would prevent them from dominating the lower house. Wood (2006) has maintained that Adams had become intellectually irrelevant by the time the Federal Constitution was ratified. By then, American political thought, transformed by more than a decade of vigorous and searching debate as well as shaping experiential pressures, had abandoned the classical conception of politics which understood government as a mirror of social estates.

In doing a cut-and-paste from Wikipedia, you left off the next part:

Quote
Wood overlooks Adams's peculiar definition of the term "republic," and his support for a constitution ratified by the people.[43]  He also underplays Adams's belief in checks and balances. "Power must be opposed to power, and interest to interest,” Adams wrote; this sentiment would later be echoed by James Madison's famous statement that "[a]mbition must be made to counteract ambition" in The Federalist No. 51, in explaining the powers of the branches of the United States federal government under the new Constitution.[44][45]  Adams did as much as anyone to put the idea of "checks and balances" on the intellectual map
.
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« Reply #57 on: June 01, 2010, 10:20:16 pm »
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Adams' intellectual influence on our Constitutional system was minimal at best.

Quote
In the book, Adams suggested that "the rich, the well-born and the able" should be set apart from other men in a senate—that would prevent them from dominating the lower house. Wood (2006) has maintained that Adams had become intellectually irrelevant by the time the Federal Constitution was ratified. By then, American political thought, transformed by more than a decade of vigorous and searching debate as well as shaping experiential pressures, had abandoned the classical conception of politics which understood government as a mirror of social estates.

In doing a cut-and-paste from Wikipedia, you left off the next part:

Quote
Wood overlooks Adams's peculiar definition of the term "republic," and his support for a constitution ratified by the people.[43]  He also underplays Adams's belief in checks and balances. "Power must be opposed to power, and interest to interest,” Adams wrote; this sentiment would later be echoed by James Madison's famous statement that "[a]mbition must be made to counteract ambition" in The Federalist No. 51, in explaining the powers of the branches of the United States federal government under the new Constitution.[44][45]  Adams did as much as anyone to put the idea of "checks and balances" on the intellectual map
.

Sorry, that doesn't disprove anything I said. Adams's contributions to the American government were minimal, and that's why authors in more recent times have had to go out of their way to find examples to point out. That doesn't put him anywhere near the level of Jefferson, whose ideals fundamentally shaped American political thought.
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WillK
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« Reply #58 on: June 01, 2010, 10:25:00 pm »
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Adams' intellectual influence on our Constitutional system was minimal at best.

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In the book, Adams suggested that "the rich, the well-born and the able" should be set apart from other men in a senate—that would prevent them from dominating the lower house. Wood (2006) has maintained that Adams had become intellectually irrelevant by the time the Federal Constitution was ratified. By then, American political thought, transformed by more than a decade of vigorous and searching debate as well as shaping experiential pressures, had abandoned the classical conception of politics which understood government as a mirror of social estates.

In doing a cut-and-paste from Wikipedia, you left off the next part:

Quote
Wood overlooks Adams's peculiar definition of the term "republic," and his support for a constitution ratified by the people.[43]  He also underplays Adams's belief in checks and balances. "Power must be opposed to power, and interest to interest,” Adams wrote; this sentiment would later be echoed by James Madison's famous statement that "[a]mbition must be made to counteract ambition" in The Federalist No. 51, in explaining the powers of the branches of the United States federal government under the new Constitution.[44][45]  Adams did as much as anyone to put the idea of "checks and balances" on the intellectual map
.

Sorry, that doesn't disprove anything I said. Adams's contributions to the American government were minimal, and that's why authors in more recent times have had to go out of their way to find examples to point out. That doesn't put him anywhere near the level of Jefferson, whose ideals fundamentally shaped American political thought.

The bold/underline sentance in what I quoted contradicts everything you said.
Regardless, Adams was head and shoulders above Jefferson in intellectual contributions to this country. Basic knowledge of their writings and influence shows this. 
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« Reply #59 on: June 01, 2010, 10:31:52 pm »

The Constitution is based on the Jeffersonian principle that the government be limited strictly to specifically-enumerated powers.

If that is a Jeffersonian principle, he must have developed it after 1776.  Jefferson was quite proud of his contributions to the Virginia Constitution of 1776, but there isn't even a hint of the concept of enumerated powers in that document.  It did have separation of powers into three branches, and a bill of rights that gives specifically enumerated limitations on governmental power.

Incidentally, that constitution had an even stricter separation of church and state than the U.S. Constitution, in that "all ministers of the gospel, of every denomination, be incapable of being elected members of either House of Assembly or the Privy Council".
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« Reply #60 on: June 01, 2010, 10:36:39 pm »
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Adams' intellectual influence on our Constitutional system was minimal at best.

Quote
In the book, Adams suggested that "the rich, the well-born and the able" should be set apart from other men in a senate—that would prevent them from dominating the lower house. Wood (2006) has maintained that Adams had become intellectually irrelevant by the time the Federal Constitution was ratified. By then, American political thought, transformed by more than a decade of vigorous and searching debate as well as shaping experiential pressures, had abandoned the classical conception of politics which understood government as a mirror of social estates.

In doing a cut-and-paste from Wikipedia, you left off the next part:

Quote
Wood overlooks Adams's peculiar definition of the term "republic," and his support for a constitution ratified by the people.[43]  He also underplays Adams's belief in checks and balances. "Power must be opposed to power, and interest to interest,” Adams wrote; this sentiment would later be echoed by James Madison's famous statement that "[a]mbition must be made to counteract ambition" in The Federalist No. 51, in explaining the powers of the branches of the United States federal government under the new Constitution.[44][45]  Adams did as much as anyone to put the idea of "checks and balances" on the intellectual map
.

Sorry, that doesn't disprove anything I said. Adams's contributions to the American government were minimal, and that's why authors in more recent times have had to go out of their way to find examples to point out. That doesn't put him anywhere near the level of Jefferson, whose ideals fundamentally shaped American political thought.

The bold/underline sentance in what I quoted contradicts everything you said.
Regardless, Adams was head and shoulders above Jefferson in intellectual contributions to this country. Basic knowledge of their writings and influence shows this. 


Sorry, I've read both of their writings, and in fact I've read many of their letters to each other. Adams was a decent man of good intentions, but his worldview was conservative and narrow-minded, contrary to the spirit of the American Revolution.
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« Reply #61 on: June 01, 2010, 10:40:14 pm »
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The Constitution is based on the Jeffersonian principle that the government be limited strictly to specifically-enumerated powers.

If that is a Jeffersonian principle, he must have developed it after 1776.  Jefferson was quite proud of his contributions to the Virginia Constitution of 1776, but there isn't even a hint of the concept of enumerated powers in that document.  It did have separation of powers into three branches, and a bill of rights that gives specifically enumerated limitations on governmental power.

Incidentally, that constitution had an even stricter separation of church and state than the U.S. Constitution, in that "all ministers of the gospel, of every denomination, be incapable of being elected members of either House of Assembly or the Privy Council".

And Adams considered the principles of Christianity to be the principles upon which the Founding Fathers achieved independence...
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« Reply #62 on: June 01, 2010, 10:45:48 pm »
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Adams' intellectual influence on our Constitutional system was minimal at best.

Quote
In the book, Adams suggested that "the rich, the well-born and the able" should be set apart from other men in a senate—that would prevent them from dominating the lower house. Wood (2006) has maintained that Adams had become intellectually irrelevant by the time the Federal Constitution was ratified. By then, American political thought, transformed by more than a decade of vigorous and searching debate as well as shaping experiential pressures, had abandoned the classical conception of politics which understood government as a mirror of social estates.

In doing a cut-and-paste from Wikipedia, you left off the next part:

Quote
Wood overlooks Adams's peculiar definition of the term "republic," and his support for a constitution ratified by the people.[43]  He also underplays Adams's belief in checks and balances. "Power must be opposed to power, and interest to interest,” Adams wrote; this sentiment would later be echoed by James Madison's famous statement that "[a]mbition must be made to counteract ambition" in The Federalist No. 51, in explaining the powers of the branches of the United States federal government under the new Constitution.[44][45]  Adams did as much as anyone to put the idea of "checks and balances" on the intellectual map
.

Sorry, that doesn't disprove anything I said. Adams's contributions to the American government were minimal, and that's why authors in more recent times have had to go out of their way to find examples to point out. That doesn't put him anywhere near the level of Jefferson, whose ideals fundamentally shaped American political thought.

The bold/underline sentance in what I quoted contradicts everything you said.
Regardless, Adams was head and shoulders above Jefferson in intellectual contributions to this country. Basic knowledge of their writings and influence shows this. 


Sorry, I've read both of their writings ....

I find that hard to believe
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« Reply #63 on: June 01, 2010, 10:46:30 pm »
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Adams' intellectual influence on our Constitutional system was minimal at best.

Quote
In the book, Adams suggested that "the rich, the well-born and the able" should be set apart from other men in a senate—that would prevent them from dominating the lower house. Wood (2006) has maintained that Adams had become intellectually irrelevant by the time the Federal Constitution was ratified. By then, American political thought, transformed by more than a decade of vigorous and searching debate as well as shaping experiential pressures, had abandoned the classical conception of politics which understood government as a mirror of social estates.

In doing a cut-and-paste from Wikipedia, you left off the next part:

Quote
Wood overlooks Adams's peculiar definition of the term "republic," and his support for a constitution ratified by the people.[43]  He also underplays Adams's belief in checks and balances. "Power must be opposed to power, and interest to interest,” Adams wrote; this sentiment would later be echoed by James Madison's famous statement that "[a]mbition must be made to counteract ambition" in The Federalist No. 51, in explaining the powers of the branches of the United States federal government under the new Constitution.[44][45]  Adams did as much as anyone to put the idea of "checks and balances" on the intellectual map
.

Sorry, that doesn't disprove anything I said. Adams's contributions to the American government were minimal, and that's why authors in more recent times have had to go out of their way to find examples to point out. That doesn't put him anywhere near the level of Jefferson, whose ideals fundamentally shaped American political thought.

The bold/underline sentance in what I quoted contradicts everything you said.
Regardless, Adams was head and shoulders above Jefferson in intellectual contributions to this country. Basic knowledge of their writings and influence shows this. 


Sorry, I've read both of their writings ....

I find that hard to believe

Okay.
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« Reply #64 on: June 01, 2010, 10:56:42 pm »

The Constitution is based on the Jeffersonian principle that the government be limited strictly to specifically-enumerated powers.

If that is a Jeffersonian principle, he must have developed it after 1776.  Jefferson was quite proud of his contributions to the Virginia Constitution of 1776, but there isn't even a hint of the concept of enumerated powers in that document.  It did have separation of powers into three branches, and a bill of rights that gives specifically enumerated limitations on governmental power.

Incidentally, that constitution had an even stricter separation of church and state than the U.S. Constitution, in that "all ministers of the gospel, of every denomination, be incapable of being elected members of either House of Assembly or the Privy Council".

And Adams considered the principles of Christianity to be the principles upon which the Founding Fathers achieved independence...

In the context of the full clause that is found in, its clear that the Virginia limitation on ministers was likely a reaction to the governmental payment of ministerial salaries in colonial times, as not just ministers but also everyone drawing a governmental salary was similarly enjoined from being elected.

Quote
The two Houses of Assembly shall, by joint ballot, appoint Judges of the Supreme Court of Appeals, and General Court, Judges in Chancery, Judges of Admiralty, Secretary, and the Attorney-General, to be commissioned by the Governor, and continue in office during good behaviour. In case of death, incapacity, or resignation, the Governor, with the advice of the Privy Council, shall appoint persons to succeed in office, to be approved or displaced by both Houses. These officers shall have fixed and adequate salaries, and, together with all others, holding lucrative offices, and all ministers of the gospel, of every denomination, be incapable of being elected members of either House of Assembly or the Privy Council.

That clause is not the only mention of religion in that Constitution however:

Quote from: Bill of Rights, Section 16
That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity towards each other.

That would seem to support Adams views on the importance to the Founding Fathers of Christian principles, which sadly often have nothing to do with Christian ministers, especially those that try to involve themselves in government.
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« Reply #65 on: June 02, 2010, 12:59:24 am »
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The Constitution is based on the Jeffersonian principle that the government be limited strictly to specifically-enumerated powers.

If that is a Jeffersonian principle, he must have developed it after 1776.  Jefferson was quite proud of his contributions to the Virginia Constitution of 1776, but there isn't even a hint of the concept of enumerated powers in that document.  It did have separation of powers into three branches, and a bill of rights that gives specifically enumerated limitations on governmental power.

Incidentally, that constitution had an even stricter separation of church and state than the U.S. Constitution, in that "all ministers of the gospel, of every denomination, be incapable of being elected members of either House of Assembly or the Privy Council".

(This is a response to the text I bolded.)

I think it was because Virginia was a unitary state that its constitution didn't have enumerated powers.  Enumerated powers tend to be creatures of federal states:

Quote
Unlike unitary states, the central government in federal states possesses only the minimum number of competencies and necessary powers to guarantee the political and economic unity of the federation, while the other levels possess full capacity for self-government in all other spheres. In its own sphere no government level must be subordinate to the level above.

http://www.jef.eu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=63&Itemid=46
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« Reply #66 on: June 02, 2010, 06:49:27 am »
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What did Jefferson contribute, intellectually, to the Constitution?

Adams did not contribute much to the intellectual underpinnings of the U.S. Constitution. Jefferson and Madison did. They were far more qualified than Adams to comment on the constitutionality of judicial review.

Well, that is certainly an inaccurate historical statement.

Well no, it most certainly is not.

The Constitution is based on the Jeffersonian principle that the government be limited strictly to specifically-enumerated powers. In addition, it is thanks largely to the Jeffersonians that we have our Bill of Rights.

Adams's conservative, aristocratic, authoritarian view of government is not reflected in the Constitution.

Well sorry to be prying here Tas, but I find it odd that you would vote for Adams over Jefferson in 1796 given your opinion of his views of government..............
I mean really.
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« Reply #67 on: June 02, 2010, 11:00:08 am »
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You're confusing concept with reality.  So, judicial review has been used to do some bad things, but that is not the fault of judicial review, that is the fault of the current Court.

Anyway, even though the role of the Supreme Court was not fully defined until Marbury, that general idea had been the intention of the Constitution.  It wasn't just made up.
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« Reply #68 on: June 02, 2010, 02:41:59 pm »
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Anyway, even though the role of the Supreme Court was not fully defined until Marbury, that general idea had been the intention of the Constitution.  It wasn't just made up.

Later than that, I'd argue.  After Marbury, judicial review wasn't used again until Dred Scott, so I'd say that the role of the Court in terms of reviewing federal laws had not taken hold.  Not even until the New Deal was the SCOTUS regularly involved in striking laws.
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« Reply #69 on: June 02, 2010, 02:53:24 pm »
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You're confusing concept with reality.  So, judicial review has been used to do some bad things, but that is not the fault of judicial review, that is the fault of the current Court.

Anyway, even though the role of the Supreme Court was not fully defined until Marbury, that general idea had been the intention of the Constitution.  It wasn't just made up.

The concept of judicial review, whereby a group of nine unelected divine black robes who are unaccountable to the people are endowed with dictatorial powers over the fate of the nation, is fundamentally flawed and incompatible with a free society.
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« Reply #70 on: June 02, 2010, 05:35:11 pm »

Enumerated powers tend to be creatures of federal states:

Quote
Unlike unitary states, the central government in federal states possesses only the minimum number of competencies and necessary powers to guarantee the political and economic unity of the federation, while the other levels possess full capacity for self-government in all other spheres. In its own sphere no government level must be subordinate to the level above.

http://www.jef.eu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=63&Itemid=46


Enumerated powers are more common in federal constitutions, because the component states did not wish to trust the federal government with a broad grant of power.  Also if too broad a grant is given, then it may not be a federal government any longer.  However, enumerated powers are found in the constitutions of a number of the States of the United States, most notably Alabama, where the constitution was written because the people did not wish to trust the state government with a broad grant of power.

Enumerated powers are thus a mark of distrust in the power of republican institutions to safeguard the freedoms of those who are represented in them.

The Alabama Constitution of 1901, because of its distrust of what both State and local governments might do, has managed to require close to 800 Amendments in less than 11 decades.

My favorite amendment of the Alabama Constitution is:
Quote from: Amendment 449
Eradication or Control of the Boll Weevil in Cotton.

Notwithstanding any other provision of this Constitution, the legislature may hereafter, by general law, provide for the eradication or control of the boll weevil in cotton. The legislature may provide for and is authorized to provide means and methods for the financing of this activity by prescribing a procedure whereby cotton growers may, by referendum held among such growers in this state, levy upon themselves and collect assessments, fees and charges, based upon the amount of acreage of cotton planted. The legislature is authorized to make provisions for non-payment of such assessments. The legislature shall provide for the collection and distribution of assessments or charges authorized hereunder and to provide penalties for failure to pay said assessments. The legislature shall provide for the designation of a non-profit organization which has been organized for the purpose of eradicating or controlling the boll weevil in cotton; to administer and carry out said eradication or control program; to also include conducting elections or referendums among cotton growers.

The legislature shall further provide for the deposit, withdrawal, disbursement and expenditure by the designated organization of any funds received, subject to the supervision and control of the activities authorized herein by the state department of agriculture and industries and the state board of agriculture and industries. Assessments, fees, or other charges collected as authorized by any legislative act adopted under authority hereof shall not be considered as a tax within the meaning of this Constitution or any provision thereof. The legislature shall further provide a procedure for the examination and auditing of said organization and for reasonable rules and regulations to be adopted by the state board of agriculture and industries; to effectively carry out the intent and purposes herein enumerated. Any uniformity requirements of this Constitution shall be satisfied by the application of the program to eradicate or control the boll weevil in cotton.
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« Reply #71 on: June 02, 2010, 10:22:35 pm »
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Enumerated powers tend to be creatures of federal states:

Quote
Unlike unitary states, the central government in federal states possesses only the minimum number of competencies and necessary powers to guarantee the political and economic unity of the federation, while the other levels possess full capacity for self-government in all other spheres. In its own sphere no government level must be subordinate to the level above.

http://www.jef.eu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=63&Itemid=46


Enumerated powers are more common in federal constitutions, because the component states did not wish to trust the federal government with a broad grant of power.  Also if too broad a grant is given, then it may not be a federal government any longer.  However, enumerated powers are found in the constitutions of a number of the States of the United States, most notably Alabama, where the constitution was written because the people did not wish to trust the state government with a broad grant of power.

Enumerated powers are thus a mark of distrust in the power of republican institutions to safeguard the freedoms of those who are represented in them.

The Alabama Constitution of 1901, because of its distrust of what both State and local governments might do, has managed to require close to 800 Amendments in less than 11 decades.

My favorite amendment of the Alabama Constitution is:
Quote from: Amendment 449
Eradication or Control of the Boll Weevil in Cotton.

Notwithstanding any other provision of this Constitution, the legislature may hereafter, by general law, provide for the eradication or control of the boll weevil in cotton. The legislature may provide for and is authorized to provide means and methods for the financing of this activity by prescribing a procedure whereby cotton growers may, by referendum held among such growers in this state, levy upon themselves and collect assessments, fees and charges, based upon the amount of acreage of cotton planted. The legislature is authorized to make provisions for non-payment of such assessments. The legislature shall provide for the collection and distribution of assessments or charges authorized hereunder and to provide penalties for failure to pay said assessments. The legislature shall provide for the designation of a non-profit organization which has been organized for the purpose of eradicating or controlling the boll weevil in cotton; to administer and carry out said eradication or control program; to also include conducting elections or referendums among cotton growers.

The legislature shall further provide for the deposit, withdrawal, disbursement and expenditure by the designated organization of any funds received, subject to the supervision and control of the activities authorized herein by the state department of agriculture and industries and the state board of agriculture and industries. Assessments, fees, or other charges collected as authorized by any legislative act adopted under authority hereof shall not be considered as a tax within the meaning of this Constitution or any provision thereof. The legislature shall further provide a procedure for the examination and auditing of said organization and for reasonable rules and regulations to be adopted by the state board of agriculture and industries; to effectively carry out the intent and purposes herein enumerated. Any uniformity requirements of this Constitution shall be satisfied by the application of the program to eradicate or control the boll weevil in cotton.

It is also true that successful federal states need not have enumerated powers. Germany is perhaps the best example, as it is highly federal and yet allows the federal government to legislate on more or less everything.
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« Reply #72 on: June 03, 2010, 12:01:17 am »
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Enumerated powers tend to be creatures of federal states:

Quote
Unlike unitary states, the central government in federal states possesses only the minimum number of competencies and necessary powers to guarantee the political and economic unity of the federation, while the other levels possess full capacity for self-government in all other spheres. In its own sphere no government level must be subordinate to the level above.

http://www.jef.eu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=63&Itemid=46


Enumerated powers are more common in federal constitutions, because the component states did not wish to trust the federal government with a broad grant of power.  Also if too broad a grant is given, then it may not be a federal government any longer.  However, enumerated powers are found in the constitutions of a number of the States of the United States, most notably Alabama, where the constitution was written because the people did not wish to trust the state government with a broad grant of power.

Enumerated powers are thus a mark of distrust in the power of republican institutions to safeguard the freedoms of those who are represented in them.

The Alabama Constitution of 1901, because of its distrust of what both State and local governments might do, has managed to require close to 800 Amendments in less than 11 decades.

My favorite amendment of the Alabama Constitution is:
Quote from: Amendment 449
Eradication or Control of the Boll Weevil in Cotton.

Notwithstanding any other provision of this Constitution, the legislature may hereafter, by general law, provide for the eradication or control of the boll weevil in cotton. The legislature may provide for and is authorized to provide means and methods for the financing of this activity by prescribing a procedure whereby cotton growers may, by referendum held among such growers in this state, levy upon themselves and collect assessments, fees and charges, based upon the amount of acreage of cotton planted. The legislature is authorized to make provisions for non-payment of such assessments. The legislature shall provide for the collection and distribution of assessments or charges authorized hereunder and to provide penalties for failure to pay said assessments. The legislature shall provide for the designation of a non-profit organization which has been organized for the purpose of eradicating or controlling the boll weevil in cotton; to administer and carry out said eradication or control program; to also include conducting elections or referendums among cotton growers.

The legislature shall further provide for the deposit, withdrawal, disbursement and expenditure by the designated organization of any funds received, subject to the supervision and control of the activities authorized herein by the state department of agriculture and industries and the state board of agriculture and industries. Assessments, fees, or other charges collected as authorized by any legislative act adopted under authority hereof shall not be considered as a tax within the meaning of this Constitution or any provision thereof. The legislature shall further provide a procedure for the examination and auditing of said organization and for reasonable rules and regulations to be adopted by the state board of agriculture and industries; to effectively carry out the intent and purposes herein enumerated. Any uniformity requirements of this Constitution shall be satisfied by the application of the program to eradicate or control the boll weevil in cotton.

It is also true that successful federal states need not have enumerated powers. Germany is perhaps the best example, as it is highly federal and yet allows the federal government to legislate on more or less everything.

Yeah, it's pretty obvious why Germany isn't the best example.
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« Reply #73 on: June 03, 2010, 06:11:02 am »
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Yeah, it's pretty obvious why Germany isn't the best example.

Then explain it to a dumb like me.
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« Reply #74 on: June 16, 2010, 09:13:48 pm »
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Only in one of the cases you listed did the court even apply the powers granted to it by judicial review (Roe v. Wade). Learn what it means and try again.

Edit: Two, sorry, was unaware of the Missouri Compromise part of Dred Scott.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 09:17:49 pm by Verily »Logged
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