opinion of opebo.

[Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.]

I think they guy is pretty smart, and has a firm understanding of economics. I think it is important to continually argue for the correct economic policy despite some of the obvious fallacies that such detractors may fall in.

[Torie]

I think they guy is pretty smart, and has a firm understanding of economics. I think it is important to continually argue for the correct economic policy despite some of the obvious fallacies that such detractors may fall in[/b].

The word "detractors" does not appear to modify anything, thus leaving your sentence rather opened ended as to meaning. As to economics, Opebo's mix and match of Marx and Keynes (well his mind's eye of Keynes, a version of which has apparently become his substitute for a diety), is an interesting fusion to watch unfold. Whether he really believes this all remains opaque. Opebo is very careful about remaining consistent - a most impressive display of self discipline indeed.

And the dude is very smart, and well educated, and literate, and well because he is a relative old, actually knows some stuff, and thus reading his text is typically a pleasure, particularly when, as it so often is, it is leavened by wit - and very creative and original wit to boot. I wonder how I can learn to be so witty. Hmmn ...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

There's very little of Marx to Opebo's thinking, fwiw.

[k-onmmunist]

There's very little of Marx to Opebo's thinking, fwiw.

There's very little of Marx to most communists thinking, regrettably.

[Torie]

There's very little of Marx to Opebo's thinking, fwiw.

I beg to differ. Class enemies, class oppression, class this, class that, and beyond confiscatory taxation, the suggestion that there is a moral justification of removing class enemies from their perches by means that may not by wholly democratic, the rage of the oppressed poors being so understandably justifiable. But perhaps I missed something on this Al. Help me out! Thanks.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I beg to differ. Class enemies, class oppression, class this, class that, and beyond confiscatory taxation, the suggestion that there is a moral justification of removing class enemies from their perches by means that may not by wholly democratic, the rage of the oppressed poors being so understandably justifiable. But perhaps I missed something on this Al. Help me out! Thanks.

His understanding of class and society is simply not Marxist in any way, shape or form. His basic argument is based on a very personal understanding of social and economic relationships, rather than Marxist theory; it's almost feudal. He also, quite obviously, disagrees with the Marxist approach to history, something that is at the core of Marxist thought. Someone cannot be seriously described as a Marxist if they view an aristocratic regime as being preferable in any way to a capitalist society.
It's true that he often uses language associated with Marxism (though - again - prefers his own creations; the term 'owning class' has no place in Marxist jargon and makes no sense from a Marxist perspective), but then so did the student 'radicals' of the late 1960s. And if they were Marxists, I'm a bloody Tory.

[Torie]

I am not sure I agree. Perhaps Marx thought feudalism better than capitalism in some moral sense, but in any event, I suspect both agree that probably capitalism is a necessary way station on the road to utopia no? One difference I suspect is that Marx was an optimist about utopia being achieved, while Opebo, with his pessimism about human nature, probably does not anticipate the magic kingdom actually being achieved on this mortal coil. Someday this might deserve its own thread, not so much about Opebo, but about Marx.

And yes, I would probably be willing to stipulate that your knowledge base is greater than mine on this. Thus it is just barely possible that you might actually be correct on this one.

[The Mikado]

In some ways, I see opebo as accepting Marx's view of the aristocracy-bourgeoisie-communist progression as fact, but bemoaning said fact.  In fact, he kind of reminds me of what Marx labeled "Reactionary socialism." 

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.]

I think they guy is pretty smart, and has a firm understanding of economics. I think it is important to continually argue for the correct economic policy despite some of the obvious fallacies that such detractors may fall in[/b].

The word "detractors" does not appear to modify anything, thus leaving your sentence rather opened ended as to meaning. As to economics, Opebo's mix and match of Marx and Keynes (well his mind's eye of Keynes, a version of which has apparently become his substitute for a diety), is an interesting fusion to watch unfold. Whether he really believes this all remains opaque. Opebo is very careful about remaining consistent - a most impressive display of self discipline indeed.

And the dude is very smart, and well educated, and literate, and well because he is a relative old, actually knows some stuff, and thus reading his text is typically a pleasure, particularly when, as it so often is, it is leavened by wit - and very creative and original wit to boot. I wonder how I can learn to be so witty. Hmmn ...

Trust me I have seen smarter and more conservative economists advocate a stronger stimulus.

[Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.]

There's very little of Marx to Opebo's thinking, fwiw.

I beg to differ. Class enemies, class oppression, class this, class that, and beyond confiscatory taxation, the suggestion that there is a moral justification of removing class enemies from their perches by means that may not by wholly democratic, the rage of the oppressed poors being so understandably justifiable. But perhaps I missed something on this Al. Help me out! Thanks.

Karl Marx was like the last classical economist I think.

[Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.]

I am not sure I agree. Perhaps Marx thought feudalism better than capitalism in some moral sense, but in any event, I suspect both agree that probably capitalism is a necessary way station on the road to utopia no? One difference I suspect is that Marx was an optimist about utopia being achieved, while Opebo, with his pessimism about human nature, probably does not anticipate the magic kingdom actually being achieved on this mortal coil. Someday this might deserve its own thread, not so much about Opebo, but about Marx.

And yes, I would probably be willing to stipulate that your knowledge base is greater than mine on this. Thus it is just barely possible that you might actually be correct on this one.

Karl Marx actually had a very positive view of capitalism,but thought that the negative effects of it would lead to a revolution. This is because Marx did believe in say's law when it came to the Labor market, and secondly he lived during a time period when it seemed as if revolution could happen at any moment.

[phk]

This thread saddens me.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Even assuming that his views are genuine, I don't think that he is a Marxist.

[??????????]

Republican opebo or the current fraud we have now?

[Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.]

This thread saddens me.

why? I mean I realize how some could see it as an insult to respect what he has to say about economics because he sometimes throws his political views into the arena.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

He is the lifeblood of the forum. It'd be nothing without him.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I am not sure I agree. Perhaps Marx thought feudalism better than capitalism in some moral sense

Certainly not.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Well Marxism would seem capitalism as being a little more than a mere way station. But even if Opebo thinks along those lines (and I can't remember much on that subject from him at all), then the thought process that gets him there will not have been a Marxist one. And that's the key point; Marxism (as a political ideology rather than as a means of analysing society) is entirely about the process of reaching a much older destination.

The point of confusion, I think, comes from revolutionary rhetoric; most of that doesn't have Marxist roots, even if it has become associated with 'Marxism'. But, hey. Lenin's thought owed more to Chernyshevsky than to Marx, so it isn't as though this that strange a discussion.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

In fact, he kind of reminds me of what Marx labeled "Reactionary socialism."

Haha, yeah... which is funny as 'Reactionary socialism' was a strawman of his own creation.

[dead0man]

His pessimism and his obvious dislike of "poors" and women bothers me, but past that he aint bad.

[John Dibble]

He's the only user I have on ignore for a reason.

[Torie]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Al, would elaborate a bit more on the above for me, and in particular just what the older destination is?  I am tempted to speculate it is some sort of Garden of Eden, free from want, but I don't want to further embarrass myself with such speculation. Thanks.

[opebo]

His pessimism and his obvious dislike of "poors" and women bothers me, but past that he aint bad.

I love the ladies, dead0.

Mikado, I loved the sound of this Feudal socialism you mentioned.  It isn't precisely me, but it has some similarities, for sure:

In this way arose feudal Socialism: half lamentation, half lampoon; half an echo of the past, half menace of the future; at times, by its bitter, witty and incisive criticism, striking the bourgeoisie to the very heart’s core;

What better than to echo the dear past and warn of the dread future.. and to attack the self-satisfied and hypocritical while calling on the abused to at least admit they are so?  Its really very charming if you think about it, and perhaps after all in an aesthetic sense there is a usefulness in an aristocracy.

(by the way, an ex-girlfriend of mine, who was a Marxist, always called me her 'displaced aristocrat', because my manner was so despite my thoroughly petit-bourgeois upbringing.)

Ps. thanks BRTD, Torie, and others for your very kind comments.  And for the phknockets and Dibbles, I consider your disapprobation just as positive as the commendations of these worthies.

[King]

If I was a prostitute, I'd always leave the light on and the backdoor open for opebo.

[Magic 8-Ball]

The Atlas wouldn't be as fun without him.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Whether opebo is real or a character, he's a smart cookie who I rarely agree with, but very much enjoy whatever back and forth we have.

Extremely consistent.

Plus his "what have you eaten for dinner" updates are to die for.

FF