Ron Paul Introduces Healthcare Reform

[Sbane]

Very interesting....but what if your healthcare expenses are more than the amount of tax you pay? You have to pay that difference out of pocket? Plus this would be devastating to the deficit, although Ron Paul won't care about that. He is just starving the beast he would say, as if that itself will stop spending. Except for allowing consumers to by across state lines and encouraging HSA's, I don't know if I like this bill.

[Sbane]

THIS JUST IN: A tax credit is a form of big government spending.

I'm tired of this full-a-sh**t orgasm people get when the term tax credit is used.

It's just a buzz-word used so Joe Blows like Verpes over here won't feel like the government is giving him a handout when the Treasury cuts him his $1500 "refund check" to pay for his healthcare costs.  Yet if Health and Human Services sent him $1500 written out to Victory Memorial Hospital, he'd cry foul.

They give you the money, but you get to choose how it is spent on health, not the government. Besides, tax cuts are not really a handout, but an exemption from taxes. Thus government collects less money.

Except the government collects it and then you file for it.  So the government is writing a check to people to pay for costs.

And if you can only get the credit based on the costs, then you would have to already be billed to get it.  So you aren't choosing anything when you receive this money.  The choice has to already have been made.

Yeah, but YOU made the choice.

Unless you are paying your medical costs out of pocket (lol), no you did not. Some dude working for an insurance company did.

[Sbane]

So is he advocating singlepayer or am I misunderstanding what a tax credit does?

That's what I'm thinking.  Maybe us health care liberals should just go along with it.

Might as well sell the left over chicken fried steak as dark meat, eh Lief?

THIS JUST IN: A tax credit is a form of big government spending.

I'm tired of this full-a-sh**t orgasm people get when the term tax credit is used.

It's just a buzz-word used so Joe Blows like Verpes over here won't feel like the government is giving him a handout when the Treasury cuts him his $1500 "refund check" to pay for his healthcare costs.  Yet if Health and Human Services sent him $1500 written out to Victory Memorial Hospital, he'd cry foul.

They give you the money, but you get to choose how it is spent on health, not the government. Besides, tax cuts are not really a handout, but an exemption from taxes. Thus government collects less money.

Except the government collects it and then you file for it.  So the government is writing a check to people to pay for costs.

And if you can only get the credit based on the costs, then you would have to already be billed to get it.  So you aren't choosing anything when you receive this money.  The choice has to already have been made.

Yeah, but YOU made the choice.

Unless you are paying your medical costs out of pocket (lol), no you did not. Some dude working for an insurance company did.

Yep.  Ron is selling socialized medicine with everything renamed to protect the innocent.

Uh, no. Is the government mandating you have insurance? Is the government giving you other people's money, or your money? Is the government monopolizing health insurance policy? Are they telling doctors what they will or will not cover? No, they dole out the money, but they make no decisions or policies, the companies do and you choose the company.

its a tax credit and thus it is tax payer funded. Obviously you would know this if you looked at where the check from the obama tax cut came from....Unless you dont have a job.

It's refunding YOUR money, not doling out others' money.

So if you don't pay income taxes, you're ed?

[Sbane]

Very interesting....but what if your healthcare expenses are more than the amount of tax you pay? You have to pay that difference out of pocket? Plus this would be devastating to the deficit, although Ron Paul won't care about that. He is just starving the beast he would say, as if that itself will stop spending. Except for allowing consumers to by across state lines and encouraging HSA's, I don't know if I like this bill.

People who support Obama are suddenly worried about the deficit?

Paul's overall economic programme of vastly reducing spending would eliminate the deficit, but it will of course go ignored.

The deficit needs to be controlled, there is no doubt about that. But have you noticed how much godamn money this government spends? I would much rather they spend it on the welfare of their citizens rather than killing the citizens of other countries. That is all.

[Sbane]

So is he advocating singlepayer or am I misunderstanding what a tax credit does?

That's what I'm thinking.  Maybe us health care liberals should just go along with it.

Might as well sell the left over chicken fried steak as dark meat, eh Lief?

THIS JUST IN: A tax credit is a form of big government spending.

I'm tired of this full-a-sh**t orgasm people get when the term tax credit is used.

It's just a buzz-word used so Joe Blows like Verpes over here won't feel like the government is giving him a handout when the Treasury cuts him his $1500 "refund check" to pay for his healthcare costs.  Yet if Health and Human Services sent him $1500 written out to Victory Memorial Hospital, he'd cry foul.

They give you the money, but you get to choose how it is spent on health, not the government. Besides, tax cuts are not really a handout, but an exemption from taxes. Thus government collects less money.

Except the government collects it and then you file for it.  So the government is writing a check to people to pay for costs.

And if you can only get the credit based on the costs, then you would have to already be billed to get it.  So you aren't choosing anything when you receive this money.  The choice has to already have been made.

Yeah, but YOU made the choice.

Unless you are paying your medical costs out of pocket (lol), no you did not. Some dude working for an insurance company did.

Yep.  Ron is selling socialized medicine with everything renamed to protect the innocent.

Uh, no. Is the government mandating you have insurance? Is the government giving you other people's money, or your money? Is the government monopolizing health insurance policy? Are they telling doctors what they will or will not cover? No, they dole out the money, but they make no decisions or policies, the companies do and you choose the company.

its a tax credit and thus it is tax payer funded. Obviously you would know this if you looked at where the check from the obama tax cut came from....Unless you dont have a job.

It's refunding YOUR money, not doling out others' money.

So if you don't pay income taxes, you're ed?

Payroll tax?

Besides, there's something called Medicaid.

That's for medicare and social security.....or so they say haha. And Medicaid doesn't even cover everyone who is poor in many states. Of course "Obamacare" changed that but I'm sure you didn't approve.

[Sbane]

Very interesting....but what if your healthcare expenses are more than the amount of tax you pay? You have to pay that difference out of pocket? Plus this would be devastating to the deficit, although Ron Paul won't care about that. He is just starving the beast he would say, as if that itself will stop spending. Except for allowing consumers to by across state lines and encouraging HSA's, I don't know if I like this bill.

People who support Obama are suddenly worried about the deficit?

Paul's overall economic programme of vastly reducing spending would eliminate the deficit, but it will of course go ignored.

The deficit needs to be controlled, there is no doubt about that. But have you noticed how much godamn money this government spends? I would much rather they spend it on the welfare of their citizens rather than killing the citizens of other countries. That is all.

So where is the disagreement here then?

Well, I just don't think "starving the beast" is a very good strategy. First the spending cuts must be made, hopefully to the military industrial complex, then the tax credits should be given out. Taking money away from the government is very popular, but people tend to get pissed when politicians start cutting things. And don't even pretend as if it's only liberals. We both know conservatives would be the ones most pissed if we scrapped military spending on technology we will never use.

[Sbane]

So is he advocating singlepayer or am I misunderstanding what a tax credit does?

That's what I'm thinking.  Maybe us health care liberals should just go along with it.

Might as well sell the left over chicken fried steak as dark meat, eh Lief?

THIS JUST IN: A tax credit is a form of big government spending.

I'm tired of this full-a-sh**t orgasm people get when the term tax credit is used.

It's just a buzz-word used so Joe Blows like Verpes over here won't feel like the government is giving him a handout when the Treasury cuts him his $1500 "refund check" to pay for his healthcare costs.  Yet if Health and Human Services sent him $1500 written out to Victory Memorial Hospital, he'd cry foul.

They give you the money, but you get to choose how it is spent on health, not the government. Besides, tax cuts are not really a handout, but an exemption from taxes. Thus government collects less money.

Except the government collects it and then you file for it.  So the government is writing a check to people to pay for costs.

And if you can only get the credit based on the costs, then you would have to already be billed to get it.  So you aren't choosing anything when you receive this money.  The choice has to already have been made.

Yeah, but YOU made the choice.

Unless you are paying your medical costs out of pocket (lol), no you did not. Some dude working for an insurance company did.

Yep.  Ron is selling socialized medicine with everything renamed to protect the innocent.

Uh, no. Is the government mandating you have insurance? Is the government giving you other people's money, or your money? Is the government monopolizing health insurance policy? Are they telling doctors what they will or will not cover? No, they dole out the money, but they make no decisions or policies, the companies do and you choose the company.

its a tax credit and thus it is tax payer funded. Obviously you would know this if you looked at where the check from the obama tax cut came from....Unless you dont have a job.

It's refunding YOUR money, not doling out others' money.

So if you don't pay income taxes, you're ed?

Payroll tax?

Besides, there's something called Medicaid.

That's for medicare and social security.....or so they say haha. And Medicaid doesn't even cover everyone who is poor in many states. Of course "Obamacare" changed that but I'm sure you didn't approve.

No, because states can't afford it.

Right, meaning under Paul's plan many people would be left with no health care except for the emergency room. I don't see how that is an improvement.