Ron Paul Introduces Healthcare Reform

[Vepres]

Sweet! At least a few congressmen are still sane.

[Vepres]

THIS JUST IN: A tax credit is a form of big government spending.

I'm tired of this full-a-sh**t orgasm people get when the term tax credit is used.

It's just a buzz-word used so Joe Blows like Verpes over here won't feel like the government is giving him a handout when the Treasury cuts him his $1500 "refund check" to pay for his healthcare costs.  Yet if Health and Human Services sent him $1500 written out to Victory Memorial Hospital, he'd cry foul.

They give you the money, but you get to choose how it is spent on health, not the government. Besides, tax credits are not really a handout, but an exemption from taxes. Thus government collects less money.

[Vepres]

THIS JUST IN: A tax credit is a form of big government spending.

I'm tired of this full-a-sh**t orgasm people get when the term tax credit is used.

It's just a buzz-word used so Joe Blows like Verpes over here won't feel like the government is giving him a handout when the Treasury cuts him his $1500 "refund check" to pay for his healthcare costs.  Yet if Health and Human Services sent him $1500 written out to Victory Memorial Hospital, he'd cry foul.

They give you the money, but you get to choose how it is spent on health, not the government. Besides, tax cuts are not really a handout, but an exemption from taxes. Thus government collects less money.

Except the government collects it and then you file for it.  So the government is writing a check to people to pay for costs.

And if you can only get the credit based on the costs, then you would have to already be billed to get it.  So you aren't choosing anything when you receive this money.  The choice has to already have been made.

Yeah, but YOU made the choice.

[Vepres]

THIS JUST IN: A tax credit is a form of big government spending.

I'm tired of this full-a-sh**t orgasm people get when the term tax credit is used.

It's just a buzz-word used so Joe Blows like Verpes over here won't feel like the government is giving him a handout when the Treasury cuts him his $1500 "refund check" to pay for his healthcare costs.  Yet if Health and Human Services sent him $1500 written out to Victory Memorial Hospital, he'd cry foul.

They give you the money, but you get to choose how it is spent on health, not the government. Besides, tax cuts are not really a handout, but an exemption from taxes. Thus government collects less money.

Except the government collects it and then you file for it.  So the government is writing a check to people to pay for costs.

And if you can only get the credit based on the costs, then you would have to already be billed to get it.  So you aren't choosing anything when you receive this money.  The choice has to already have been made.

Yeah, but YOU made the choice.

Unless you are paying your medical costs out of pocket (lol), no you did not. Some dude working for an insurance company did.

And you, not the government, decided what you're insurance is. Since you decided what your insurance is, you can choose where you go.

[Vepres]

So is he advocating singlepayer or am I misunderstanding what a tax credit does?

That's what I'm thinking.  Maybe us health care liberals should just go along with it.

Might as well sell the left over chicken fried steak as dark meat, eh Lief?

THIS JUST IN: A tax credit is a form of big government spending.

I'm tired of this full-a-sh**t orgasm people get when the term tax credit is used.

It's just a buzz-word used so Joe Blows like Verpes over here won't feel like the government is giving him a handout when the Treasury cuts him his $1500 "refund check" to pay for his healthcare costs.  Yet if Health and Human Services sent him $1500 written out to Victory Memorial Hospital, he'd cry foul.

They give you the money, but you get to choose how it is spent on health, not the government. Besides, tax cuts are not really a handout, but an exemption from taxes. Thus government collects less money.

Except the government collects it and then you file for it.  So the government is writing a check to people to pay for costs.

And if you can only get the credit based on the costs, then you would have to already be billed to get it.  So you aren't choosing anything when you receive this money.  The choice has to already have been made.

Yeah, but YOU made the choice.

Unless you are paying your medical costs out of pocket (lol), no you did not. Some dude working for an insurance company did.

Yep.  Ron is selling socialized medicine with everything renamed to protect the innocent.

Uh, no. Is the government mandating you have insurance? Is the government giving you other people's money, or your money? Is the government monopolizing health insurance policy? Are they telling doctors what they will or will not cover? No, they dole out the money, but they make no decisions or policies, the companies do and you choose the company.

[Vepres]

THIS JUST IN: A tax credit is a form of big government spending.

I'm tired of this full-a-sh**t orgasm people get when the term tax credit is used.

It's just a buzz-word used so Joe Blows like Verpes over here won't feel like the government is giving him a handout when the Treasury cuts him his $1500 "refund check" to pay for his healthcare costs.  Yet if Health and Human Services sent him $1500 written out to Victory Memorial Hospital, he'd cry foul.

They give you the money, but you get to choose how it is spent on health, not the government. Besides, tax cuts are not really a handout, but an exemption from taxes. Thus government collects less money.

Except the government collects it and then you file for it.  So the government is writing a check to people to pay for costs.

And if you can only get the credit based on the costs, then you would have to already be billed to get it.  So you aren't choosing anything when you receive this money.  The choice has to already have been made.

Yeah, but YOU made the choice.

Unless you are paying your medical costs out of pocket (lol), no you did not. Some dude working for an insurance company did.

And you, not the government, decided what you're insurance is. Since you decided what your insurance is, you can choose where you go.

So... single payer.

Unless you choose to stumble into a Kaiser ER with your stab wound and you have Blue Cross, then you'll have to choose to wait for a cab.

I'm sorry, but that never happens for emergency care.

[Vepres]

So is he advocating singlepayer or am I misunderstanding what a tax credit does?

That's what I'm thinking.  Maybe us health care liberals should just go along with it.

Might as well sell the left over chicken fried steak as dark meat, eh Lief?

THIS JUST IN: A tax credit is a form of big government spending.

I'm tired of this full-a-sh**t orgasm people get when the term tax credit is used.

It's just a buzz-word used so Joe Blows like Verpes over here won't feel like the government is giving him a handout when the Treasury cuts him his $1500 "refund check" to pay for his healthcare costs.  Yet if Health and Human Services sent him $1500 written out to Victory Memorial Hospital, he'd cry foul.

They give you the money, but you get to choose how it is spent on health, not the government. Besides, tax cuts are not really a handout, but an exemption from taxes. Thus government collects less money.

Except the government collects it and then you file for it.  So the government is writing a check to people to pay for costs.

And if you can only get the credit based on the costs, then you would have to already be billed to get it.  So you aren't choosing anything when you receive this money.  The choice has to already have been made.

Yeah, but YOU made the choice.

Unless you are paying your medical costs out of pocket (lol), no you did not. Some dude working for an insurance company did.

Yep.  Ron is selling socialized medicine with everything renamed to protect the innocent.

Uh, no. Is the government mandating you have insurance? Is the government giving you other people's money, or your money? Is the government monopolizing health insurance policy? Are they telling doctors what they will or will not cover? No, they dole out the money, but they make no decisions or policies, the companies do and you choose the company.

its a tax credit and thus it is tax payer funded. Obviously you would know this if you looked at where the check from the obama tax cut came from....Unless you dont have a job.

It's refunding YOUR money, not doling out others' money.

[Vepres]

So is he advocating singlepayer or am I misunderstanding what a tax credit does?

That's what I'm thinking.  Maybe us health care liberals should just go along with it.

Might as well sell the left over chicken fried steak as dark meat, eh Lief?

THIS JUST IN: A tax credit is a form of big government spending.

I'm tired of this full-a-sh**t orgasm people get when the term tax credit is used.

It's just a buzz-word used so Joe Blows like Verpes over here won't feel like the government is giving him a handout when the Treasury cuts him his $1500 "refund check" to pay for his healthcare costs.  Yet if Health and Human Services sent him $1500 written out to Victory Memorial Hospital, he'd cry foul.

They give you the money, but you get to choose how it is spent on health, not the government. Besides, tax cuts are not really a handout, but an exemption from taxes. Thus government collects less money.

Except the government collects it and then you file for it.  So the government is writing a check to people to pay for costs.

And if you can only get the credit based on the costs, then you would have to already be billed to get it.  So you aren't choosing anything when you receive this money.  The choice has to already have been made.

Yeah, but YOU made the choice.

Unless you are paying your medical costs out of pocket (lol), no you did not. Some dude working for an insurance company did.

Yep.  Ron is selling socialized medicine with everything renamed to protect the innocent.

Uh, no. Is the government mandating you have insurance? Is the government giving you other people's money, or your money? Is the government monopolizing health insurance policy? Are they telling doctors what they will or will not cover? No, they dole out the money, but they make no decisions or policies, the companies do and you choose the company.

its a tax credit and thus it is tax payer funded. Obviously you would know this if you looked at where the check from the obama tax cut came from....Unless you dont have a job.

It's refunding YOUR money, not doling out others' money.

So if you don't pay income taxes, you're ed?

Payroll tax?

Besides, there's something called Medicaid.

[Vepres]

Very interesting....but what if your healthcare expenses are more than the amount of tax you pay? You have to pay that difference out of pocket? Plus this would be devastating to the deficit, although Ron Paul won't care about that. He is just starving the beast he would say, as if that itself will stop spending. Except for allowing consumers to by across state lines and encouraging HSA's, I don't know if I like this bill.

People who support Obama are suddenly worried about the deficit?

Paul's overall economic programme of vastly reducing spending would eliminate the deficit, but it will of course go ignored.

The deficit needs to be controlled, there is no doubt about that. But have you noticed how much godamn money this government spends? I would much rather they spend it on the welfare of their citizens rather than killing the citizens of other countries. That is all.

Ron Paul would say to cut both.

[Vepres]

(4) You've just described how the British National Health Service works.

You obviously have no idea how the NHS works. They have committees decide what treatments are acceptable financially. (This is different than death panels, they ban types of treatmens.).

[Vepres]

Look, I'm not saying Paul's plan is amazing, but it sure as Hell better than what you lefties think.

[Vepres]

So is he advocating singlepayer or am I misunderstanding what a tax credit does?

That's what I'm thinking.  Maybe us health care liberals should just go along with it.

Might as well sell the left over chicken fried steak as dark meat, eh Lief?

THIS JUST IN: A tax credit is a form of big government spending.

I'm tired of this full-a-sh**t orgasm people get when the term tax credit is used.

It's just a buzz-word used so Joe Blows like Verpes over here won't feel like the government is giving him a handout when the Treasury cuts him his $1500 "refund check" to pay for his healthcare costs.  Yet if Health and Human Services sent him $1500 written out to Victory Memorial Hospital, he'd cry foul.

They give you the money, but you get to choose how it is spent on health, not the government. Besides, tax cuts are not really a handout, but an exemption from taxes. Thus government collects less money.

Except the government collects it and then you file for it.  So the government is writing a check to people to pay for costs.

And if you can only get the credit based on the costs, then you would have to already be billed to get it.  So you aren't choosing anything when you receive this money.  The choice has to already have been made.

Yeah, but YOU made the choice.

Unless you are paying your medical costs out of pocket (lol), no you did not. Some dude working for an insurance company did.

Yep.  Ron is selling socialized medicine with everything renamed to protect the innocent.

Uh, no. Is the government mandating you have insurance? Is the government giving you other people's money, or your money? Is the government monopolizing health insurance policy? Are they telling doctors what they will or will not cover? No, they dole out the money, but they make no decisions or policies, the companies do and you choose the company.

its a tax credit and thus it is tax payer funded. Obviously you would know this if you looked at where the check from the obama tax cut came from....Unless you dont have a job.

It's refunding YOUR money, not doling out others' money.

So if you don't pay income taxes, you're ed?

Payroll tax?

Besides, there's something called Medicaid.

That's for medicare and social security.....or so they say haha. And Medicaid doesn't even cover everyone who is poor in many states. Of course "Obamacare" changed that but I'm sure you didn't approve.

No, because states can't afford it.

[Vepres]

All in all, King, Paul's plan isn't so great. I think that people should just be responsible for themselves, pay out of pocket for most things, and give those who cannot afford it support.

[Vepres]

Look, I'm not saying Paul's plan is amazing, but it sure as Hell better than what you lefties think.

And I'm just saying it's a single-payer national health insurance program with slightly modified means of administration--in that it's run out of the Treasury-to-providers instead of HHS-to-providers.

Oh and it gets banks into the wonderful world of insurance.  I'm sure no financial institution can pass up the "finance your large healthcare bill and pay it off with your tax credit instead of paying premiums" game.

I support this plan because it gets people right of the center to believe in something the left is arguing for and feel justified.  That's the definition of compromise right there.

All in all, King, Paul's plan isn't so great. I think that people should just be responsible for themselves, pay out of pocket for most things, and give those who cannot afford it support.

[Vepres]

So is he advocating singlepayer or am I misunderstanding what a tax credit does?

That's what I'm thinking.  Maybe us health care liberals should just go along with it.

Might as well sell the left over chicken fried steak as dark meat, eh Lief?

THIS JUST IN: A tax credit is a form of big government spending.

I'm tired of this full-a-sh**t orgasm people get when the term tax credit is used.

It's just a buzz-word used so Joe Blows like Verpes over here won't feel like the government is giving him a handout when the Treasury cuts him his $1500 "refund check" to pay for his healthcare costs.  Yet if Health and Human Services sent him $1500 written out to Victory Memorial Hospital, he'd cry foul.

They give you the money, but you get to choose how it is spent on health, not the government. Besides, tax cuts are not really a handout, but an exemption from taxes. Thus government collects less money.

Except the government collects it and then you file for it.  So the government is writing a check to people to pay for costs.

And if you can only get the credit based on the costs, then you would have to already be billed to get it.  So you aren't choosing anything when you receive this money.  The choice has to already have been made.

Yeah, but YOU made the choice.

Unless you are paying your medical costs out of pocket (lol), no you did not. Some dude working for an insurance company did.

Yep.  Ron is selling socialized medicine with everything renamed to protect the innocent.

Uh, no. Is the government mandating you have insurance? Is the government giving you other people's money, or your money? Is the government monopolizing health insurance policy? Are they telling doctors what they will or will not cover? No, they dole out the money, but they make no decisions or policies, the companies do and you choose the company.

its a tax credit and thus it is tax payer funded. Obviously you would know this if you looked at where the check from the obama tax cut came from....Unless you dont have a job.

It's refunding YOUR money, not doling out others' money.

So if you don't pay income taxes, you're ed?

Payroll tax?

Besides, there's something called Medicaid.

That's for medicare and social security.....or so they say haha. And Medicaid doesn't even cover everyone who is poor in many states. Of course "Obamacare" changed that but I'm sure you didn't approve.

No, because states can't afford it.

Right, meaning under Paul's plan many people would be left with no health care except for the emergency room. I don't see how that is an improvement.

All in all, King, Paul's plan isn't so great. I think that people should just be responsible for themselves, pay out of pocket for most things, and give those who cannot afford it support.

[Vepres]

Look, I'm not saying Paul's plan is amazing, but it sure as Hell better than what you lefties think.

And I'm just saying it's a single-payer national health insurance program with slightly modified means of administration--in that it's run out of the Treasury-to-providers instead of HHS-to-providers.  Likely, taxes would be raised to cover the ENORMOUS loss of revenue by this program.  As opposed to taxes would be raised to cover the ENORMOUS increase in spending by this program.

Oh and it gets banks into the wonderful world of insurance.  I'm sure no financial institution can pass up the "finance your large healthcare bill and pay it off with your tax credit instead of paying premiums" game.

I support this plan because it gets people right of the center to believe in something the left is arguing for and feel justified.  That's the definition of compromise right there.

It's very different, actually.

1. It doesn't monopolize insurance, it simply helps pay for premiums.
2. It doesn't set deliverance policy, it simply helps you pay your deliverer.

Again,

All in all, King, Paul's plan isn't so great. I think that people should just be responsible for themselves, pay out of pocket for most things, and give those who cannot afford it support.

[Vepres]

Yes, Verpes I know I know I know.  But I didn't wanna just waste that heartfelt paragraph I wrote.  And I'm saying that's single-payer, perhaps with weaker regulations.

All in all, King, Paul's plan isn't so great. I think that people should just be responsible for themselves, pay out of pocket for most things, and give those who cannot afford it support.

But Vepres, let me ask you this: isn't telling people to be responsible for themselves while giving support to those who can't the very nature just sharing the wealth?

It's not just in this thread, Vepres, but it sounds to me like you hold a very leftist ideology deep inside your heart.  You just hate the language of liberalism and find comfort in hearing conservative rhetoric.  Everything you always stand for is just socialism wearing a hat.

Well, I was actually a Democrat when I first got into politics (two years before I joined the forum), but I take issue with liberal attitudes. I like universal coverage, but the only proponents of it seem to want to restrict choice. I don't mind higher taxes, but I don't like giving them exclusively to the rich. I like welfare, but I don't think it should be blindly given to people because then they'll be complacent.

In fact, now that I think about it, I'm more of a third-way supporter. Curse you King for causing me to enter into deep self analysis!